Nut, neck, scale, gauge (important?)

BillDL · April 2022

1. Nut width - Although my 80s Yamaha has the most comfortable neck I have ever played, the nut width is now a little too narrow for my older bigger-knuckled fingers that have twisted a bit over the years. The nut width on that is a gnat's whisker under 43mm. If I was looking to buy another steel string acoustic it would have to be a minimum of the Sigma guitar that has a very comfortable string spacing with a nut width of 1.75" (44.45mm).

2. Neck profile - Each of my guitars is different in this respect and I have no real preference. I've never had an acoustic with a neck that has felt too shallow other than my small-bodied APX type electro-acoustic that I play more like an electric anyway, so it doesn't feel wrong. I know the differences between V, soft V, C, and U shapes, but when they start falling some place in between, or the profile changes going up or down the neck, I wouldn't have a clue what letter to assign those shapes. My old Yamaha acoustic has a very, very soft V shape to it, but it flattens out a bit to a C shape nearer the body. I can play most profiles other than a sharper V, but if was ever going to commission a custom guitar I would use a profile gauge on that old Yamaha as a reference.

3. Scale length - All my acoustics are in the 25.5" scale length ballpark anyway. I've never actually measured any of them myself, so any variances either side of 25.5 quoted in guitar specs could be down to conversion mistakes rather than actually having 25.3 through to 25.6 inch scales. I haven't knowingly played an acoustic with a shorter scale, but I don't think I would like the resultant lower tension or having to beef up string diameter to compensate.

4. String gauge - I will play any acoustic strings from 11s to 13s, and some of my guitars respond better to certain gauges, but my preference on the guitars I play the most is Thomastik-Infeld SB111 Spectrum Bronze 11s. They sound like 12s but have the softer feel of 11s.

malcolmkindness · April 2022

bertie said:

McSwaggerty said:

but this Waterloo Guitar is the best Guitar I

so are they the Avalon (Lowden) of the Collings world ? Id never heard of them before, I see they're connected

Definitely not, Avalon are very similar to Lowden but owned by different people, while Waterloo are owned by Collings but a completely different guitar type. They are loosely modelled on old Gibson guitars.

Tannin · April 2022

BillDL said:

I haven't knowingly played an acoustic with a shorter scale, but I don't think I would like the resultant lower tension or having to beef up string diameter to compensate.

* Almost any Gibson acoustic
* Most non-dreadnought Martins (000s for example, but not the OM, which is simply a long scale 000)
* Various others of many brands

crunchman · April 2022

Nut width 1 11/16" (in archaic units as that's how Martin does it and that's my reference).
Neck profile: V
Scale length: depends on the guitar. Long scale on a dread, but I do like an OOO with a shorter scale
Strings: 11s or low tension 12s like Newtone

My Martin HD28VE ticks all of those boxes - especially the neck profile which is perfect for me. I do wonder if an Atkin might sound marginally better, but I do like the Martin. I've had it 15 years or so and probably won't part with it.

I might be in the market for a smaller bodied guitar at some point to complement the Martin. I'll probably go shorter scale on that, but I'd still ideally like a V neck.

Tannin · April 2022

I can cope with archaic units. I have a spreadsheet. Yes, really.

So I can look at my spreadsheet and see that 1 and 11/16ths is just a hair under the 43mm measurement that any normal human can understand.

And the 1 and 3/4 people often mention is 44.5mm (technically, 44.45 - and yes, the difference between a standard 44.1mm nut and a "wide" 44.45mm nut is real, and I can feel it straight away).

BillDL · April 2022

Tannin said:

BillDL said:

I haven't knowingly played an acoustic with a shorter scale, but I don't think I would like the resultant lower tension or having to beef up string diameter to compensate.

* Almost any Gibson acoustic
* Most non-dreadnought Martins (000s for example, but not the OM, which is simply a long scale 000)
* Various others of many brands

I have to say that I have only ever played Martin dreadnought guitars and one OM sized one, but never owned any. The only Gibson acoustics I have ever played were Hummingbird, Dove, and a Jumbo size, but I can't say that I noticed any difference in the fret spacings over and above the general difference in feel to my other guitars. I think I'm going to have to go through my guitars and actually measure the scale lengths rather than just believe the original specs quoted as being around 25.5 inches when I bought them. That would certainly account for why some like different string gauges if there are substantial differences - not that it really matters that much in the end though.

bertie · April 2022

malcolmkindness said:

Definitely not, Avalon are very similar to Lowden but owned by different people, while Waterloo are owned by Collings but a completely different guitar type. They are loosely modelled on old Gibson guitars.

I know Avalon is the ex-lowden factory/workshop after George went his separate way and (rightly) took the (his) name

but I "thought" they were still connected in some way

McSwaggerty · April 2022

Kilgore said:

McSwaggerty said:

Kilgore said:

McSwaggerty said:

Kilgore said:

Nut: 1.75"

Neck: flexible but no baseball bats.

Scale length: Between 24" to 25" is good.

Strings: 12s

Same as me...... Nearly.
Got a Waterloo.... Spent a fortune on Strings various gauges and had a mad weekend....really l did.....probably around 12 diggerent makes, varying between 11s and 12s.....
For me... LMartin Retro 11s won out the park, no question....
I'm a fingerpicker..... With a wee bit of bottle eck....

I do about 90% fingerpicking.

Short scale 00/parlour/12 frets are the sweet spot for me.

I've purposely avoided going down the string rabbit hole. I know very little about the various types. Ignorance is bliss.

I was happy with D'addarios or Newtone strings for years, but this Waterloo Guitar is the best Guitar I have ever had so wanted to get best i could out of it. It was costly and time consuming exercise, but I am glad i did it. And all the other strings I tried will be fine for my other acoustics for the next year or so.

A 12 fret Waterloo is near the top of my GAS list.

I read on the AGF that Collings have temporarily ceased or drastically curtailed Waterloo production due to Covid backlogs on the Collings lines. I don't know if there's any truth to it.

Yep, reckon its almost impossible to get your hands on a Collings Waterloo 12 fretter just now. About 4 years ago l checked out a 12 fretter in Guitar Guitar in Glasgow.... Loved it, but at around 2k+ was just a bit too pricey for me at the time.
I was checking all shit out for about 3 years, and was well lucky to hunt down a 14 fretter late last year....
My life wouldn't have ended if l didn't get one, but its great guitar.....but it was just one of these things... A personal mission.a game... Probably sell it next year... Haha

guitarjack66 · April 2022

Supportact said:

Nut width - my main acoustic is 45mm and this seems about right. If the strings are too close together it causes problems for me.
Neck profile - don't mind, I feel like I can adapt to most things
Scale length - same really, depends on the individual instrument.
String gauge - prefer 11s for acoustic, 12s sometimes depending on the guitar.

I think maybe I wouldn't have something made to my own specifications though, given the choice. I'd rather have someone who knows more than me make something the way they want and then decide if it suits me.

One thing that is overlooked on guitars is fingertip size,eg the pads of your fingers. Those lads and lasses often have fingers like spiders legs and those people tend to have smaller tipped fingers. Those of us with smaller fingers often have chunkier fingertips so string spacing is more important. Making A major or B7 in the first position is something I find tricky due to lack of space. I actually find those chords easier to play as barres.

bertie · April 2022

guitarjack66 said:

. Those lads and lasses often have fingers like spiders legs and those people tend to have smaller tipped fingers.

yep, that's me, but more woodlice legged as they're not long - hence my years of going on about "not touching the fretboard" wood yadda yadda......... also being quite "skinny" fingered it does hinder the E barre chord "anchoring"

malcolmkindness · April 2022

bertie said:

malcolmkindness said:

Definitely not, Avalon are very similar to Lowden but owned by different people, while Waterloo are owned by Collings but a completely different guitar type. They are loosely modelled on old Gibson guitars.

I know Avalon is the ex-lowden factory/workshop after George went his separate way and (rightly) took the (his) name

but I "thought" they were still connected in some way

I'm fairly confident that they are not connected, although if you were to play a new Avalon and a new Lowden blindfold, I doubt if you could tell them apart soundwise.

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Nut, neck, scale, gauge (important?)

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