Advice looking for a replacement guitar

ICBM · September 2014

itm said:
That thought did cross my mind! I don't think mine would fetch much - it's a 1981 (USA) model with the 3-bolt neck which I don't think was very highly regarded. I suspect that I'd be lucky to fund a new Strat plus a worthwhile acoustic from the proceeds.

You'd be surprised what those are selling for now, especially if it's in one of the naff 'International' colours! If it's in fairly decent original condition, and you're not sentimentally attached to it, you could sell it for far more than it's actually worth as a player's instrument, and easily buy a nice modern Mexican or Japanese Strat and a good acoustic for the same money. Keep your old Yamaha as a memento if you like it.

richardhomer · September 2014

itm;342169" said:
it's a 1981 (USA) model with the 3-bolt neck which I don't think was very highly regarded. I suspect that I'd be lucky to fund a new Strat plus a worthwhile acoustic from the proceeds.

Assuming its original and in reasonable condition it would probably sell to the 'right' person for considerably more than it 'ought' to be worth (see the recent 'vintage' thread).

If it's at the lighter end of the scale (Strats had got REALLY heavy by this point), that will help. Trem models are generally worth more than hardtails.

ICBM · September 2014

richardhomer said:

Trem models are generally worth more than hardtails.

Which is ironic (especially considering the lack of iron

) since from the mid-70s they used the awful one-piece soft alloy bridge blocks and saddles. The soft block not only kills the tone, it causes tuning problems since it isn't hard enough to hold a proper knife edge at the pivot point. The trem arm threads often strip too.

The hardtails got the alloy saddles but at least retained the pressed-steel baseplate.

Any '81 Strat in reasonable original condition is probably 'worth' at least a grand now... which may come as something of a shock

.

itm · September 2014

A grand? Good grief are you sure? Sadly it's a hardtail (I remember wanting to avoid the trem because of problems keeping them in tune). Maybe if the FG180 proves uneconomical to repair I'll take the Strat down to Guitar Guitar in Epsom and see what trade-in options there are.

itm · September 2014

itm said:

A grand? Good grief are you sure? Sadly it's a hardtail (I remember wanting to avoid the trem because of problems keeping them in tune). Maybe if the FG180 proves uneconomical to repair I'll take the Strat down to Guitar Guitar in Epsom and see what trade-in options there are.

Oh and the Strat's a sunburst with rosewood fretboard. Is that an advantage?

richardhomer · September 2014

Sunburst is probably one of the better colours from that period - '81 was the year of The International Series, which came in all kinds of bizarre colours.

I hope this doesn't sound patronising but I would be very careful about taking it to a shop to do a p/ex deal. This is just the type of guitar where they will try to persuade you (as a seller) is worth hardly anything and then convince the buyer it is a vintage gem!

I would talk to some of the more serious vintage dealers about the possibility of them selling it on consignment for you. They will probably take a chunky (circa 20%) commission but you are likely to net more than throwing it at a part exchange deal.

It is probably (at retail) worth more than £1000, assuming the finish is original, the pick-ups and hardware are original and it's in good overall condition.

ICBM · September 2014

itm said:

A grand? Good grief are you sure? Sadly it's a hardtail (I remember wanting to avoid the trem because of problems keeping them in tune).

Yes, I'm sure. For comparison there is a '79 in the shop I work in for £1,299. *In my opinion* they are not worth this as guitars - like you probably, I remember when you could barely give away these heavy, poorly-fitting, shrill-sounding guitars - but it is a fact of the market that they are now perceived as "vintage" and sell for that sort of money, despite being the very guitars which really got the whole vintage thing going originally by being so poor compared to 50s and 60s ones!

I disagree slightly with richardhomer about the hardtails too - I think they're worth about the same as the trem models due to being quite a bit rarer, as well as not having the poor soft-alloy bridge block. Sunburst is a good colour, won't put anyone off - and rosewood boards don't suffer from the flaking of the over-thick clear finish on the fingerboard like maple ones do.

Assuming it's in average to good condition and is all original I wouldn't take much less than that if you sell it privately, or the equivalent trade-in price (probably about £600-£700 against something of similar face value) to a shop.

itm · September 2014

Thanks - interesting stuff. So if went down the route of selling it privately is Fleabay the best bet, or is there a better channel out there for this sort of thing?

ICBM · September 2014

Put it in the classifieds here with good pictures - although be warned, there are a lot of tyre-kickers - or put it on consignment/agency at a shop… they will take a commission but can usually get a higher price so it probably works out about the same.

Fleabay is a minefield and I would not recommend selling a valuable guitar on there - too much can go wrong if you have to ship it to a buyer who has not come and paid in cash. There is also a large commission to pay (both on the sale price and the Paypal transaction if paid for that way, which is most likely) which makes the one a shop will charge look like less of a rip-off.

Is it actually a nice guitar? Not all are heavy or shrill-sounding, even though most are - some even have nice necks too, although getting one that has all three things right at once was pretty rare by '81. And finding one which is all those and the neck doesn't move about in the pocket is getting close to rocking-horse-dropping territory, but things can be done about that.

richardhomer · September 2014

Given the likely age of the buyer, you might want to consider a free ad in the back of Guitarist. I've only ever sold cheaper items that way but have always found the people who responded to be very straight-forward - none of that 'would you take my old fridge in part-ex' stuff...

itm · September 2014

Thanks for the advice - I'll avoid Fleabay. Can anyone recommend a shop within reach of West London that would do a good job of selling it on and not fleece me too much on the commission?

It's in pretty good shape. Bedroom use only and all original. It doesn't feel too heavy to me. There are some strange tiny bubble-like marks in the lacquer in an arc shape just above the pickguard. It's as if it's been left leaning against something circular for a while. Very strange, and only noticeable if you look closely.

Unfortunately I don't have the experience to pass judgement on how it sounds. I only ever owned/played 2 Strats, and the first one got stolen before I really got to know it.

itm · September 2014

richardhomer said:

Given the likely age of the buyer, you might want to consider a free ad in the back of Guitarist. I've only ever sold cheaper items that way but have always found the people who responded to be very straight-forward - none of that 'would you take my old fridge in part-ex' stuff...

Thanks - I was typing as you were posting. I've just had a look in an old copy of Guitarist and seen a '79 hardtail advertised for £1,500 (yikes!). It's described as "investment grade", whatever the hell that means. Baffling....

richardhomer · September 2014

'Investment Grade' means a really 'clean'/original/undamaged example.

It's the kind of phrase Vintage & Rare use to describe guitars which are very expensive....

Why not post some photos? That would help with evaluating it.

As far as shops taking a big commission is concerned - they have overheads to cover and are more likely to secure a sale at a premium price than a private seller. They can also take a card payment from the buyer - which most private sellers can't. You should consider these points when deciding if the commission quoted is fair.

itm · September 2014

Hmm...I wonder if mine might fall into that category. I need to get it looked at!

Here are some pics in the meantime. I couldn't get an angle that showed up the little marks that I was talking about, but they give an idea of the general condition:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/sk4oqpn4cz4m37v/AAD5EevAsSGL_WDf_zueyvH3a?dl=0

richardhomer · September 2014

Looks like a very nice example - though the resolution of the photos isn't good enough to show up small blemishes.

As I said earlier, you need to be careful selling this. It might not be a 'Golden Era' vintage guitar but it is from a period where people will pay significant amounts - particular through dealers in wealthy areas - for a well-cared for, original example.

ICBM · September 2014

+1

While not perfect, that's in very nice condition and good enough that it will attract buyers for whom whether it is actually a great guitar or not may be secondary. It's maybe not "investment grade", whatever that means, but it's certainly the sort of thing that someone specifically after a nice example of a Strat from that era would be interested in. The actual year matters for many 'nostalgia buyers' now.

I assume you're referring to it as an '81 because you know when you bought it. You probably know already that the serial number indicates it's a '79, but that Fender used up the decals for a couple of years later. You can get a more accurate date if you read the codes on the pots, the last 7 digits of which will read '137yyww', where yy is the year and ww the week if manufacture of the pot - the guitar will usually have been made within a few months of this (later of course!). Fenders of this era often have dates stamped in the neck pocket and other places inside too - they usually differ a bit, and the date of the guitar is usually taken as whichever is the latest of them and the pot codes.

But certainly, if you don't want to keep this Strat, you can afford quite a decent acoustic

.

ICBM · September 2014

Also, if it's as original as it looks in the pics, be careful if you take it apart to check - even down to making sure you keep all the screws in the correct holes when you put it back together! The pattern of wear and corrosion on them is usually very distinctive and putting them back in different places makes the guitar look obviously 'messed about with'. Yes, I am serious

.

When I take apart an old guitar like this I always lay the screws out in the pattern they go in on the guitar. It might sound crazy but this sort of thing really matters to many vintage guitar buyers, who want originality at all costs.

crunchman · September 2014

itm said:

A grand? Good grief are you sure? Sadly it's a hardtail (I remember wanting to avoid the trem because of problems keeping them in tune). Maybe if the FG180 proves uneconomical to repair I'll take the Strat down to Guitar Guitar in Epsom and see what trade-in options there are.

As said by others, you will get ruinous value on a trade in. The other option is to get Charlie to sell it for you in his shop on consignment. He'll probably get a lot more for it than you can get in a private sale or using Feebay. His commission is 15% which is very reasonable. Ebay commission plus Paypal fees would be 13% - although commission would top out at £750 sale value.

It's also hassle free. You drop the guitar in, and they transfer the money into your account after they have sold it. The only worry would be if the shop goes under while your guitar is in there but I'd imagine Charlie's would be one of the safest shops around given the regular income he gets from repairs.

itm · September 2014

I don't think I have the confidence to take a screwdriver to it, particularly given what I now know about its value!

I actually used this source to cross-reference the serial number/date, although it does clarify that it's based on a theoretical scenario "if Fender had implemented the serial numbers as planned" (rather than over-producing serial number decals and muddying the waters re. dates):

http://www.guitarrepairbench.com/guitar-dating/fender-serial-number.html#1976

I've added a couple of higher-res pics to better illustrate the odd scuff mark etc - DSCF5337.JPG shows the arc of bubble marks that I was describing earlier (just below the pickguard in the picture, to the right of centre). DSCF5339.JPG has another close-up of these marks. It's by no means in mint condition, but in exceptionally good shape for 30-year-old timber ;0) (mainly due to sitting in a nice comfy Fender case for most of its life)

richardhomer · September 2014

I owned a maple-neck/trem version in the same colour ('Sienna Sunburst') which I bought in early 1981 - so it could have been made the previous year. The serial number was S941054 (how sad am I for being able to remember that?). The chronology of them is somewhat unreliable - but the number on yours is higher, therefore '81 is a pretty safe assumption.

Though (generally) Strats from this era represent Fender's nadir, there are the odd decent ones. They have some historical significance as well, as they are among the very last big headstock/3 bolt neck guitars built, before the introduction of the 'Dan Smith' Strats in 1982. And an a relatively 'affordable' year of birth guitar for the 33 year olds who fancy buying one....

I'd give it a proper clean, restring it and get it playing as well as possible, then go down the commission/consignment sale route.

Even after commission has been paid - especially in London - I'd expect you to get more than £1000.

To be honest, if it were mine, I'd keep it...

itm · September 2014

Thanks - that does rather improve my level of confidence in the age of the guitar.

TBH I'd be perfectly happy with a brand new Mexican or Japanese Strat if it played and sounded no worse than this one, and if the FG-180 can't be fixed then selling the Strat would be a great way of funding a replacement.

Can anyone recommend a reseller in the Richmond/West London area?

crunchman · September 2014

itm said:

Can anyone recommend a reseller in the Richmond/West London area?

Charlie Chandler. You could try Chandlers but they charge more commission than Charlie does.

xSkarloey · September 2014

crunchman said:

itm said:

Can anyone recommend a reseller in the Richmond/West London area?

Charlie Chandler. You could try Chandlers but they charge more commission than Charlie does.

I'd do this. You already know what sort of shop it is because you dropped your Yamaha off there. They've got a good reputation.

itm · September 2014

Skarloey said:

crunchman said:

itm said:

Can anyone recommend a reseller in the Richmond/West London area?

Charlie Chandler. You could try Chandlers but they charge more commission than Charlie does.

I'd do this. You already know what sort of shop it is because you dropped your Yamaha off there. They've got a good reputation.

Makes sense. I phoned them this morning (no news about the Yamaha yet). They charge 15% and the guy I spoke to said that the average price for an '81 would be around £900. He said he'd be surprised if anything went past the £1k mark. Anyway I'll take the Strat in for a proper look when I pick up the Yamaha.

itm · September 2014

Skarloey said:

crunchman said:

itm said:

Can anyone recommend a reseller in the Richmond/West London area?

Charlie Chandler. You could try Chandlers but they charge more commission than Charlie does.

I'd do this. You already know what sort of shop it is because you dropped your Yamaha off there. They've got a good reputation.

Makes sense. I phoned them this morning (no news about the Yamaha yet). They charge 15% and the guy I spoke to said that the average price for an '81 would be around £900. He said he'd be surprised if anything went past the £1k mark. Anyway I'll take the Strat in for a proper look when I pick up the Yamaha.

itm · September 2014

Skarloey said:

crunchman said:

itm said:

Can anyone recommend a reseller in the Richmond/West London area?

Charlie Chandler. You could try Chandlers but they charge more commission than Charlie does.

I'd do this. You already know what sort of shop it is because you dropped your Yamaha off there. They've got a good reputation.

I phoned them this morning (no news on the FG-180 yet). They charge 15% commission. The guy I spoke to said that the average price for an '81 Strat was probably around £900, and that he'd be surprised if anything passed the £1k mark. Anyway I'll take the Strat in for a proper look when I pick up the Yamaha. I might dig out some lemon oil and polish in the meantime...

itm · September 2014

So the FG-180 is back from Charlie Chandlers and a heavier set of strings seems to have done the trick. The guy I spoke to said that he might try stringing it up using a technique where you loop the end of each string through one of the other string loops (I couldn't quite picture what he meant). I'm not sure if he ended up doing that but the intonation now seems fine, so I'll probably hold off on buying a new acoustic.

On the downside, Mr Chandler reckoned that they'd struggle to sell the '81 Strat for anything more than £1k. He did think that it was in nice condition though. Since that would only leave me with £850 after commission I'll probably hang onto that as well.

Thanks for all the feedback here - it's been an education!

richardhomer · September 2014

itm;350018" said:
On the downside, Mr Chandler reckoned that they'd struggle to sell the '81 Strat for anything more than £1k. He did think that it was in nice condition though. Since that would only leave me with £850 after commission I'll probably hang onto that as well

I think you are wise - when selling anything with a bit of 'collector appeal', it's often about finding the 'right' buyer - which can take time.

I assume given that CC would only be making £150 (less the VAT) that he wouldn't want it sitting in the shop too long.

As the economy recovers and people slowly feel more confident about their finances, you may well see prices strengthen - it certainly won't fall in value.

Or you might just find you enjoy owing and playing it...

Howdy, Stranger!

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