Brass bridge pins?

Mellish · March 2022

I've tried Martin Luxe (I have a set). @Tannin ; - I would agree with @bertie in that the weight restricts/reduces top vibrations or that's how it seems to me. I would say don't be in a hurry to buy a set, you may not like what you find

ICBM · March 2022

I've also heard it said that weight restricts the top vibration and that's why you don't want a large or thick bridge as that will kill the volume and tone of the guitar.

This is wrong. If it was true then the Gibson Dove wouldn't be the cannon it is.

Image: https://gibsonsupreme.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/57.jpg

bertie · March 2022

bumble bee ? has everything we learnt in physics classes null and void ?

or perhaps, and more likely - the top of a Dove, is "tamed" by the additional mass of the bridge ??!?

CavemanGrogg · March 2022

bertie said:

Tannin said:

No, not a pickup truck. A ute is a passenger car chassis and body cut off just behind the driver's head, with a cargo tray on the back and (usually) uprated rear springs. A pickup truck is quite different.

we (well me) just call em big pickups....................

That's what you'd call a ''light truck'', it's not even remotely similiar to a ute, my last vehicle was a light truck, a Mitsubishi Barbarian, or Storm depending on which country you are in, a ute is actually built on top of a normal car chassis, where as light trucks/pickup trucks are built on truck chassis.

BillDL · March 2022

My first thoughts about the additional weight of brass pins would be the speed of the response. I would have thought that the mass would make the top travel further but with each movement it would take longer to return to "flat" again. There could be some phase cancellation in the vibrations as a result. Theory only. I was never particularly good at physics, but I do know what the wave length and amplitude are in wave forms, and I do know roughly how momentum works.

sev112 · March 2022

Tannin said:

Interesting. I got around to trying out the brass pins on the Mineur just now. Same strings, I just swapped the pins.

FOR:

* The treble strings definitely sound better: sweeter and more true. (That's with my heavy-handed RH technique.)

* Strummed sound is sweeter, more trebly, less boxy, less distorted. It is now more difficult to clip that very light spruce top and I don't have to be so very, very careful to strum lightly. (To be fair, it is a guitar designed for fingerpicking, so I'm outside the design parameters.)

AGAINST:

* I've lost some of that lovely bass growl. There is less bass, and what there is is less pleasing to the ear.

* It has more zing in general, not a lot, but enough to notice and I'm not sure I like that.

* Overall, there is a subtle loss of richness. I don't think it is as subtle a sound or as varied a dynamic as it was with the old pins.

I'll leave them on for a while and see how my ear adapts to them, and also give myself a chance to grow used to it and start playing to suit it.

I must admit, I'm a bit tempted to go silly and order a set of the Martin ones in the hope of getting most of the "for" features without any of the "against" ones, but let's not rush into that.

The weight difference, BTW, is 4 grams. That's probably not insignificant. I'm not sure that bluetack would work - wouldn't it need to be something reasonably rigid and non-absorbing? Wood, say, or metal rather than putty like damping substances. I have toyed with the idea of experimenting with clamps, but not actually tried it.

Sounds like a mixed set would be a good outcome - brass for the high strings only ?

Tannin · March 2022

Yes indeed ... but is it the brass on the end of the string which makes the difference, or the weight of the brass pins? I'd have thought the weight was the likely culprit, but that's only a guess.

Meanwhile, having played it again today, it's good. Different but good. I'm not convinced that the sound is superior, but the guitar is more versatile with the brass pins. Have I sacrificed too much of its unique character though? It is more similar to my other guitars, especially the Messiah now: still itself, but not quite so distinctive. Hmmmm .... well, I don't have to decide tonight. Plenty of time.

Mellish · March 2022

I've owned a set of Martin Luxe for around two months. Here's what I found: Weight-wise, 1 is heavier than 6 plastic pins. They tamed that ringing trebles I get with bone, and they took away some of the boomy bass of this HD-28.The overall sound was more metallic. I didn't like it and no longer use them. But bear in mind that that's *my* ears and this guitar YMMV

Tannin · March 2022

Thanks Mellish. I've heard enough of the brass pins in this guitar to be quite certain (without bothering to try them) that they's sound unpleasant in the Messiah, the Angel, and very likely the Guild. In the 12-string (which I play as a 6) they'd be awful. The others, maybe, maybe not, but probably not.

From what you've told me (and also the odd Youtube thing) I suspect I won't especially like the Luxe, but I'd happily spend $50 just to try them out. But $160 or whatever the price was I mentioned on the other page was .... maybe not.

Next up I'll try the suggestion @sev112 made.

Mellish · March 2022

It's a lot of money mate for something I suspect would be similar in tone to the brass ones you already have. I'm not trying to put you off, just don't Want you to spend that much only to maybe decide it was money wasted

Tannin · April 2022

I've been playing the Mineur with 4 bone or plastic pins and 2 brass ones on the plain strings as per @sev112 ;It definitely sounds better with the original pins for the 4 wound strings; I'm not sure about the plains - the sound is different and I maybe prefer the brass but I'll need to do some more AB swapping to be sure.

I also tried one of my just-bought ebony ones. This was a cheap set for $6 and the first one jammed in the guitar top and wouldn't come out. Some moron had made them too short so the old push up from below trick (thanks ICBM!) wasn't much help. I got it in the end, and got it without damaging a lovely near-new hand-made guitar, but there was a struggle and some language.

Mellish · April 2022

I'm not a fan of wood bridge pins. I'm always nervous that humidity could cause them to expand and crack the bridge. I may be overcautious but I just don't like taking the risk

Tannin · April 2022

^ good point!

bertie · April 2022

Mellish said:

I'm not a fan of wood bridge pins. I'm always nervous that humidity could cause them to expand and crack the bridge. I may be overcautious but I just don't like taking the risk

surely, by the nature of their shape - they're more likely to "pop out" ?

also what about any other bit of "untreated wood" - what if the bridge itself expanded ?

Mellish · April 2022

@bertie ; well it might but it seems like this is heading towards "I want a Rainsong cos I don't trust wood". I dunno, YMMV

Mellish · April 2022

To be serious, though, I have seen bridges that were cracked by wood pins. Martin's use of plastic pins, shipping worldwide, very different climates, there may be more to it than tradition/cost

bertie · April 2022

mine are made from the teeth of my enemies

shufflebeat · April 2022

bertie said:

mine are made from the teeth of my enemies

Oh, I've not tried that.

Cool.

(Should have a few spares as well).

ICBM · April 2022

bertie said:

Mellish said:

I'm not a fan of wood bridge pins. I'm always nervous that humidity could cause them to expand and crack the bridge. I may be overcautious but I just don't like taking the risk

surely, by the nature of their shape - they're more likely to "pop out" ?

No, the taper is far too shallow for that.

It is a theoretical risk, although at least with ebony I would say it's very unlikely - it really isn't affected by humidity to any significant degree.

Tannin · June 2022

Update: after all the questions and the experiments, I'm back to normal. The brass pins are in the spare parts box and the original ones are back in the guitar. An interesting journey, worth the (small) expense and the (very small) time and trouble factor.

What will my next whacky idea be? Tune in next week, same bat time, same bat station.

Mellish · June 2022

Yes, I thought the brass pins would come out

Other materials include FMI, FWI, Ebony, Rosewood, Buffalo Horn, Boxwood, Snakewood.

I prefer bone. Some say there's no tonal difference but I guess there is for you if you hear it, or if you *believe* you do

bertie · June 2022

I use coprolite, very vintage

sev112 · June 2022

Mellish said:

Yes, I thought the brass pins would come out

Other materials include FMI, FWI, Ebony, Rosewood, Buffalo Horn, Boxwood, Snakewood.

I prefer bone. Some say there's no tonal difference but I guess there is for you if you hear it, or if you *believe* you do

Have you tried snake oil wood yet ?

Mellish · June 2022

@sev112 ; - no mate - have you?

sev112 · June 2022

I try everything out there, ha ha

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Brass bridge pins?

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