Advice on my (probably) final guitar

TheMadMick · January 2022

As I approach my 73rd birthday, I can see that my days of playing will come to an end in the not to distant future. So I've thought about my ultimate guitar. As I come from N Ireland my thoughts turned to Lowden and Avalon. I already have a number of rather nice mid range guitars and my current preference lies towards OM sort of sized guitars which have a nice well defined bass and a forward mid range.

I have searched about and found what I think are the optimum range of wood and construction I might like and I now seek advice (apart from go and play them - not so easy in the COVID ravaged times).

Avalon: Seems the Ard Re 1 - 330 with cedar top and walnut body in an orchestral cutaway would be my choice. Right size, right materials and good sound from what I can gather on the net. Cost is just over £4k and I'd like a pick up as well which adds another £400 if I go for the Baggs anthem fitted from new..

Lowden: F23C fits the same bill and there are some in sensible traveling distance. Materials are the same although I'd need to get a pick up fitted for what I want. What I've heard on the net I find attractive. The price is about £3 - 400 cheaper than the Avalon.

My playing varies a lot (and not just the quality). I strum a lot and also play lead (the tune), I pattern pick and even sing. So I need a pretty versatile guitar although much can be controlled by technique and choice of strings/ pick.

Has anyone experience of these 2 guitars or something very like them? I'd appreciate feedback and if someone has one for sale, I could be interested but it would need to be in the Northwest - I live in Merseyside.

Epsilon · January 2022

One observation I'd make is that a cedar top is not usually what you'd associate with a guitar intended for a lot of strumming. That said, the F23C is a fantastic choice of guitar and cedar/walnut is my favourite combo. I primarily play fingerstyle in open tunings though.

Mellish · January 2022

If you can afford it, I'd say Lowden. I listened to a friend play several in a shop. They all sounded amazing. I know you don't want to hear it, but please try before you buy. And have fun picking one out

CHRISB50 · January 2022

I had an O22C mahogany back and sides, cedar top. It’s by far the best guitar I’ve ever owned. Acoustic or electric. Needed the money so I sold it : (

I didn’t think it liked to be strummed, or if you did, you had to hold back. Otherwise it would almost sound like it was distorting.

Mine was much more suited to finger picking.

TheMadMick · January 2022

Thanks guys. Plainly, the Lowden is accessible so I can try before I buy. Could do with someone else to listen to it as what the player hears ain't necessarily what the listener hears.

Mellish · January 2022

@TheMadMick ; taking someone with you is a good idea. Play it and let them listen then swap places. And look the guitar all over. It's a Lowden, I get it but you still want to check

artiebear · January 2022

I can't give you a direct appraisal of the F23, but I've just put down an F35c ( Adirondack/cocobolo ) to reply and have two OM's right beside me (Bourgeois Italian/macassar ebony and a Collings sitka/koa ). The main thing is that a Lowden F is a slightly bigger guitar than an OM, especially the depth. It is, however, very comfortable to play and that added depth gives you a fuller low end while still retaining midrange presence and forward protection.

I don't know whether or not the Avalon OM size is aiming for the traditional flavour of that body size so it's hard to say how it would compare, however, none of my OM size guitars ( I have 6 or 7 ) do what the Lowden F does, while it in itself is very much that Lowden DNA, while not being the big harmonic wash of my old O32 ( if anything the F records easier for all that ).

As an all rounder, it would be great if you get get your hands on an F32 for comparison. While I love Lowden's use of cedar, the spruce/rosewood combo will give more flat picking headroom and is very versatile.

All the best with the search and enjoy.

earwighoney · January 2022

Why just those two? There are other NI luthiers, Ciaran McNally makes superb guitars, as does Donal McGreevy.

Honkycat · January 2022

I’d love to try a McNally, they look amazing. Also, they are hand made by the man himself. Not sure how much George is actually involved in the making of the Lowdens now, but I think it’s more of a factory set up.

TheMadMick · January 2022

earwighoney said:

Why just those two? There are other NI luthiers, Ciaran McNally makes superb guitars, as does Donal McGreevy.

Simple - availability, Need to try before I buy.

Honkycat · January 2022

A wee trip back to the homeland?

earwighoney · January 2022

TheMadMick said:

earwighoney said:

Why just those two? There are other NI luthiers, Ciaran McNally makes superb guitars, as does Donal McGreevy.

Simple - availability, Need to try before I buy.

McNally has guitars in a few shops, Maks Guitars in London if you are ever in that neck of the woods. He worked for Lowden and was manager at Atkin Guitars til a few years ago, and his guitars are supposedly voiced between the two.

TheMadMick · January 2022

Honkycat said:

A wee trip back to the homeland?

Thought about that. But that's not cheap either and we've very few direct family remaining there - to many have passed.

tomjax · January 2022

Don't rule out the Mcilroy guitars too, a different take on the Irish builders, still a lot of Lowden influence but they are a more all rounder I think. I have the A30 and it's a truly beautiful instrument and prices far lower than Lowdens.

tomjax · January 2022

Couple of nice Lowdens in at Frailers in Runcorn at the moment. Might be worth a trip, can't be too far from you.

malcolmkindness · January 2022

Hi there, congratulations, I'm almost your age. I have owned a Lowden F23 in the past and played several Avalons, they are all fine guitars it really depends on the individual instrument at this level.
McNally are great guitars and I must declare in the interests of full disclosure that Ciaran is a personal friend. He aims his sound slightly mid Atlantic, not quite as celtic as the Lowden or Avalon sound. And yes he is a one man shop, so does everything himself including finishing. If you could manage to try one of his guitars in a shop it might be worthwhile.
Not that it probably has much meaning for you but the Lowden will most likely have the best resale value.

DavidR · January 2022

Something different. Emerald Guitars. Carbon Fibre beauties from Ireland.

Mellish · January 2022

Rainsong is another carbon fibre brand. If I had that sort of money spare, you'd find me in Promenade Music

malcolmkindness · January 2022

Oh no, carbon fibre has no soul! It might be ok for a travelling or stage guitar but not for an instrument to treasure in your old age.

Tannin · January 2022

I dunno anything about Lowdens but there is one in the classifieds if that's the sort of instrument you are after: https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/221554/fs-lowden-f-32#latest

DavidR · January 2022

malcolmkindness said:

Oh no, carbon fibre has no soul! It might be ok for a travelling or stage guitar but not for an instrument to treasure in your old age.

Depends what you're looking for of course Malcolm.

But!!.....another very kind FB user let me play his Emerald late last year and I was mightily impressed. Several intelligent design features. Sounded just like my OM28 and was a thing of great beauty and quality. Not pushing them but carbon fibre instruments can be much more than merely utilitarian if you just stop thinking that guitars have to be made out of wood. And no I didn't buy one because my main factor in buying a guitar is tone. I know its subjective etc but, honestly, shut my eyes and I could have been playing a fairly up market traditional acoustic.

Really hope you find your new guitar. As regards last? Never say never!!

TheMadMick · January 2022

The plot thickens folks. I came across a YouTube video of the Lowden F23 being played in much the same manner as I play. It was awful!!!

I also found a McIlroy A25C for sale second hand and the YouTube videos showed a guitar much brighter than I'm looking for.

Maybe I'll take a trip to scratch this itch and find out what I really want.

Thanks for all your advice. I may end up at Promenade Music again for carbon fibre?

Mellish · January 2022

Good job you saw the YT video! If you go to Promenade, Mick, try carbon fibre, sure, but also everything they've got. You know the drill, you're looking for one that you can't leave alone. Good luck

TheMadMick · January 2022

Mellish said:

Good job you saw the YT video! If you go to Promenade, Mick, try carbon fibre, sure, but also everything they've got. You know the drill, you're looking for one that you can't leave alone. Good luck

Used to be a regular at Promenade when I traveled to Cumbria regularly. But I don't know about trying everything - life's to short for that. But I'll try and narrow it down a bit before arriving. Their website is quite good.

GTC · January 2022

I've had three Lowdens - an F23C, an S32 and a WL22. I've also got a custom 2019 Ard Ri Avalon - an S7-OAK cutaway 12-fretter (Sinker Redwood Top / Oak B&S).

Comparing something from the Avalon custom Ard-Ri series with the F23C, which is from Lowden's basic range, is not a fair comparison.

The build quality and finish of my S7-OAK is superior to any Lowden I've had. you also get to choose some of the options and parameters e.g. mine has a non-standard 46mm nut width. The sound is magical - unlike any other acoustic I've played. Their guitars also usually come with a full photographic history of the build process.

Having said that, I am thinking of selling my Avalon. Why? I only play nylon string classicals nowadays and it has just been sitting there making me feel guilty. Just in case you were tempted, I should point out that I am left-handed (as is the guitar)!

If you haven't already done so, it is worth contacting Steve at Avalon directly as you may be surprised by the price. Having said that, because of the name, Lowdens generally have a better resale value. But if it is your last guitar? ........ (do you realy believe the!!??)

BTW - for something without Irish heritage, have you tried Brook?

TheMadMick · January 2022

GTC wrote - "The sound is magical - unlike any other acoustic I've played"

Would you like to try and describe what you mean. Please remember I'm an old strummer and tune geek.

GTC · January 2022

TheMadMick said:

GTC wrote - "The sound is magical - unlike any other acoustic I've played"

Would you like to try and describe what you mean. Please remember I'm an old strummer and tune geek.

Difficult to put into words - so I picked it up and gave it a rare (nowadays) outing. A complex tone - almost like a 12-string, particularly on the trebles but with the the main notes clearly sounding through - and fantastic sustain. Greater clarity than the Lowdens I've played. Sinker redwood is notorious for taking a long time to break in and it has been wonderful to hear such a lovely guitar getting better and better with time.

I should mention that I am a fingerstyle player. I've heard people say that Avalons have a more American sound than Lowdens due to the bridge construction - perhaps more suited to a strummer / flatpicker.

Well, this brief outing with the Avalon playing a few classical-ish things has been enough to convince me that I must be mad to be thinking of selling it.

I hope this helps - and good luck with your decision

TheMadMick · February 2022

Thanks, that clarifies things a lot. I know what you mean about sustain. My L'Arrivee does the same but with a very mellow balance.

TheMadMick · February 2022

GTC said:

If you haven't already done so, it is worth contacting Steve at Avalon directly as you may be surprised by the price. Having said that, because of the name, Lowdens generally have a better resale value. But if it is your last guitar? ........ (do you really believe the!!??)

Thanks GTC - contacted Steve and he told me he had a guitar that should match my needs in process just now. Ready in about 6 weeks. Once I pick up the courage to pay the deposit, it should have my name on it. If it doesn't suit, I can return it - but I sincerely hope I don't have to. The photos look very promising.

Spec: Auditorium cutaway, Bear claw spruce and walnut. LR Baggs pick up. Pity I'm not blessed with patience!

GTC · February 2022

Sounds good - and not too long to wait either

drofluf · February 2022

If you’re finding six weeks too long best you don’t look at Brooks

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