Acoustic Guitar Demos - Standard Tuning Please

jaymenon · November 2021

I'm sometimes a little irritated by the fact that many acoustic guitar demos involve altered tunings, which allow the (very talented) guitarists to illustrate a guitar in a manner that is significantly more resonant than it would be in standard tuning.

With altered tunings they leave a lot of open strings ringing whilst playing other strings - and it sounds lovely...

In standard EADGBE tuning (which is what most of us mortals play in) you don't get that.

So in the demo, the guitar sounds a lot better than it would sound in standard tuning.

While I do enjoy the fabulous playing on these demos (and I have nothing against Drop D, DADGAD etc) I would suggest that it might be more useful, more representative and perhaps even a bit more honest? to illustrate a guitar in standard tuning.

IMO this would be a more 'real world' demo of the guitar.

What do you chaps think?

Needless to say, my obvious jealousy has nothing to do with this

drofluf · November 2021

As I play mostly in DADGAD I may be biased…

But to take your points on the guitar being “more resonant” and sounding a “lot better” in an alternative tuning doesn’t it suggest that the instrument is not optimised for standard tuning? And perhaps with some thought it could be designed to sound better in standard? I’m not a luthier so I may be over simplifying this.

Generally though I agree it should be demonstrated in the way that most people use it but as it’s a “sales demo” it will be biased to show it in its best possible light.

As an aside the reason I started to learn to play in DADGAD is that I found it a more “flattering” tuning. The same tunes just seemed to sound better and flow more easily than in standard.

sev112 · November 2021

@drofluf - any suggestions for some solo DADGAD tunes that aren’t “Celtic” or Ragtime - all the DADGAD stuff I’ve got or look up /buy is just 100 year old Celtic folk tunes - any other more modern sources? Have looked at M Bensusan’s stuff which everyone recommends but it just is mainly Celtic

drofluf · November 2021

sev112 said:

@drofluf - any suggestions for some solo DADGAD tunes that aren’t “Celtic” or Ragtime - all the DADGAD stuff I’ve got or look up /buy is just 100 year old Celtic folk tunes - any other more modern sources? Have looked at M Bensusan’s stuff which everyone recommends but it just is mainly Celtic

Most of what I play is Celtic I’m afraid but there’s a few ideas here https://pickuptheguitar.com/dadgad-tuning-songs/ and here https://www.jerrysguitarbar.com/guitar-lessons-by-tuning/dadgad-tuning/ Rob Macillop also has a DADGAD blues book; I’ve not used it but have one of his others that’s well laid out and easy to follow.

stickyfiddle · November 2021

sev112 said:

@drofluf - any suggestions for some solo DADGAD tunes that aren’t “Celtic” or Ragtime - all the DADGAD stuff I’ve got or look up /buy is just 100 year old Celtic folk tunes - any other more modern sources? Have looked at M Bensusan’s stuff which everyone recommends but it just is mainly Celtic

Abacus by Fionn Regan is DADGAD.

bencowling81 · November 2021

sev112 said:

@drofluf - any suggestions for some solo DADGAD tunes that aren’t “Celtic” or Ragtime - all the DADGAD stuff I’ve got or look up /buy is just 100 year old Celtic folk tunes - any other more modern sources? Have looked at M Bensusan’s stuff which everyone recommends but it just is mainly Celtic

Eric Roche’s arrangement of Jump by Van Halen is in DADGAD

drofluf · November 2021

You can probably play almost any tune in DADGAD; sometimes it will be easier, sometimes the fingering will be impossible. Sometimes it won’t sound as good but when it works it will be superb.

Tannin · November 2021

In broad, I agree. Demo the guitar in a representative manner. This includes standard tuning. (And don't play percussive crap on it to the point where the watcher has no idea what the guitar sounds like when you actually play music on it. Cough, cough, Guild.)

jaymenon said:

I'm sometimes a little irritated by the fact that many acoustic guitar demos involve altered tunings, which allow the (very talented) guitarists to illustrate a guitar in a manner that is significantly more resonant than it would be in standard tuning.

No it isn't! Standard tuning offers many wonderful resonances. There are six perfectly good open string notes available in standard tuning. If you are not using them, take your guitar back to the shop and tell them you didn't get your money's worth!

There are no less than seven different keys you can play in where every open string is in the key. (Allowing a dominant 7th as "in key", which it pretty much is if we are playing within the blues, jazz, or pop traditions.) Count 'em up: A , C, D, and G major; A, E, and B minor. And when you get bored with those, there are five more keys with 5 of the 6 open strings in-key: E, F, and F# major, D and F# minor. And we haven't even touched most of the other modes yet. Just to mention one out of the 60+ good, usable five and six-open-note ones, F# phrygian major (5 open strings in key) has got more wonderfully dark, mysterious resonances than you can poke a carrot at. Best of all, the sublime C# minor - only four open strings in key, but they are the outer four, meaning that you can do whatever you like on the middle strings and pluck out colour notes on the outer ones, and then morph it in to E Major (5 open strings in key) or even B major (which shares the same four open string notes as C# minor).

Now I know you know all this stuff, Jaymenon - I've seen you play and wish I could do it half as well - but let's hear it for the magic of standard tuning, which doesn't lack resonances, it simply needs a little imagination to unlock them.

drofluf · November 2021

Well put @Tannin ;

stickyfiddle · November 2021

I just want to hear a guitar played well in a variety of styles - ideally a mix of what you'd expect from that instrument with a bit of something you wouldn't necessarily expect. Some demo folks are really great at this (Jack at Peach, PGS/Reverb Andy), most are less great.

I use a lot of open tunings so am always very happy to hear them in a demo.

tomjax · November 2021

@jaymenon I'm inclined to agree with you. A similar pet peeve of mine is when they demo a guitar with a capo fitted.

bertie · November 2021

Tannin said:

In broad, I agree. Demo the guitar in a representative manner. This includes standard tuning. (And don't play percussive crap on it to the point where the watcher has no idea what the guitar sounds like when you actually play music on it. Cough, cough, Guild.

^^ this

crunchman · November 2021

Bass demos are the worst. They are always full of slapping, and noodling on the G string high up the neck, but give you no idea what it will sound like chugging out root notes on the first few frets of the E and A strings.

Danny1969 · November 2021

Has to be standard tuning and no capo's for me. I think it's a bit of a cop out to alter the tuning to make a song easier to play. There are a lot of keys that play nice with open strings in standard tuning, Gmaj, Em, Cmaj, Am, Emaj C#m etc

earwighoney · November 2021

Danny1969 said:

Has to be standard tuning and no capo's for me. I think it's a bit of a cop out to alter the tuning to make a song easier to play. There are a lot of keys that play nice with open strings in standard tuning, Gmaj, Em, Cmaj, Am, Emaj C#m etc

Agree about capos, especially when you see a video when someone has an acoustic guitar with the capo on the 7th fret!

Epsilon · December 2021

As someone that plays predominately in open tunings and with a capo quite high up the neck, I'm feeling attacked.

Tannin · December 2021

So? Just stop making all those demos on You-tube and everyone will be happy. Just don't tell Jaymenon it was all your fault.

Mellish · December 2021

FWIW I was told by a luthier that if you mostly use alternate tunings, you should mention it when you take your guitar for a setup. I never use alternate tunings so I don't know if there's any truth in that, I'll just throw it in for you guys to discuss

Tannin · December 2021

It makes sense to me. Even with a simple one like drop-D you can't afford to have the 6th string too soft and sloppy.

jaymenon · December 2021

If you permanently use a drop D, surely it would make sense to increase the gauge of the 6th string?

On a set of 12-53, perhaps to a 56...

Tannin · December 2021

Sure. What I'm getting at (rather incoherently) is someone who plays in standard and drop D. It would perhaps make sense to have the bass side action just a hair higher than perfect to allow for the floppy 6th string in drop D.

Easier to tweak the strings though, and a slightly heavy 6th string is much easier to play than a slightly heavy 1st string (or 4th, whichever).

jaymenon · December 2021

I was surprised to find out that - paradoxically - when your string gauge is heavier, you can take the action much lower in terms of
- arc relief
- nut slot height &
- saddle height

since for any given volume, the actual excursion / vibration of the strings is less - with less tendency to crash into the frets and cause buzzing.

So oddly, heaver gauge strings can be no harder to play.

Until you try string bending.

Tannin · December 2021

^ Interesting. And makes sense.

bertie · December 2021

if you "noodle" with drop-d purely for the low D, little trick is to capo the top 5 at the second fret............gives drop D while maintaining "non drop" fretted notes (Uriah Heep - Wizard for example)

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Acoustic Guitar Demos - Standard Tuning Please

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