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Reading a recent thread concerning nostalgic experiences with 70’s transistorised instrument amplifiers prompted me to reflect on the current market for guitar amplifiers. This market seems to be full of digital modellers, reissues of old valve favourites, and a bundle of ‘handmade’ boutique valve amplifiers promising the world, and all seemingly taking their ‘fair’ share of the market. Not with standing their strong presence in the acoustic guitar amplifier sector, the standalone, (I didn’t say cheap), solid-state amplifier seems to have largely fallen by the wayside, apparently un deserving of significant development or marketing. Yet, as a number of respected contributors to this forum and the ‘old place’ have suggested, many a working musician would be prepared to ‘trade’ the disadvantages of valve technology for a; good quality, good sounding, solid state guitar amplifier.
Much as modellers are breaking into the market and attitudes towards them seem to be “softening”, is there not an opening for a well designed, reliable and light weight solid state guitar amplifier? Given that designs from the 60’s and 70’s were limited by the technology available at the time, surely modern components and design techniques should be able to produce something worthy of the top name logos and which can compete with valve based technologies of similar cost?
What I do find intriguing is the interest in; pin compatible solid-state replacements for current valves, to come to market. Of course, we all want to maintain the operation of our kit for the least outlay, but if this approach does produce acceptable results, surely a bespoke solid-state solution would be no worse and in theory could be optimised without the encumbrance of conforming to octal base packaging and yet I don’t see too many people clambering for such an amp?
Perhaps this is a little simplistic, but with the good vibes an amp like the Peavey Bandit gets I wondered if there was the equivalent of a “Super Bandit” on a drawing board somewhere that can’t break though the marketing barriers to break our emotional attachment to valves?
The future can't be in valves, can it?
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Comments
That just strikes me as a better way of going about it. For me, at least.
Lets not get carried away. People stopped buying those old SS 70s amps for a reason **.
It's correct that when there's a good quality, sounds-as-good-as-valve amp on the market, people will buy it. (I would).
There isn't.
There's good reasons for that. Until someone invents an amplification device* that amplifies in the same way as a valve (which isn't likely as there's only us wants that and we don't buy enough to finance the R&D) then yes, the future could well be valves.
* - or manages to find a way to make existing SS devices sound exactly like valves. They've been trying for years and not succeeded so far.
** - generalising slightly
I agree that we shouldnt get carried away, and yes early SS efforts were not so good, but given the baggage that comes with valves I'm surprised that very few seem to be putting any effort into resolving this challenge. I recall a similar argument with CRTs, except in that case the mass market allure of a flay screen tipped the balance and the "impossible" has become the norn.
Its the interest in SS substitute valves that interests me, if that becomes a reality, why not 'proper SS amps?
Hey, in the scheme of things its a small market, but disappointing never the less.
Put me down for a Super Bandit as well but I don't think those of us on that waiting list constitute a big enough market for any major manufacturer to bother.
:-\"
But the poor reliability killed them. So like the Fenders, they also helped to create the myth of solid-state being 'inferior'. It's been an uphill battle ever since...
I don't actually think a solid-state amp will ever sound exactly like a valve amp. The problem is that a lot of people do think that the only good sounds come from valve amps, so convincing them that a solid-state amp can sound great while not sounding like a valve amp is hard. Digital modelling is trying to square the circle, but to me doesn't sound right, even though it's superficially closer - I actually prefer the *tone* of solid-state analogue, even though the sound is different.
I now doubt serious money will be spent on high-quality analogue solid-state. There's almost no market for it and the perception is that digital is better (and getting better) - if solid-state sounds ever become popular again I would expect the simplest and cheapest way to achieve them will be via modelling.
"Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski
"Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson
I've got a couple of session amps, they're great clean. Stewart is building the blues baby which ustb a transistor replacment for the blues jnr. He's been doing some comparison demos, I've not had chance to listen yet.
The debate won't go away. Digital modelling may well offer the future, solid state may become acceptable but I can't see the romance guitarists have with valves going away. It's a feel, sight, sound and even smell thing....
"Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski
"Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson
I think most people realise that 1970s tranny amps won't sound the same as valves ... they didn't then and they won't now. However there was a lot of good music played and recorded on those amps, and it's equally true that you can't get the same sound as a seventies HH IC100 out of a valve amp.
As far I was aware the change in amp buying habits from transistor back to valve I believe coincided with an influx of much cheaper 'PCB based' valve models ... like my own (7 year old) Laney ... many coming from China. Certainly when I packed up my shop in 92/93 the market was still mostly tranny, with the likes of Crate, Session and Roland dominating what people were buying. There were, of course, the 'hybrids' with one or more preamp valves ... and the 'Valvestates' were immensely popular. In real terms 'valve watts' are probably cheaper than they've ever been, but the cheapest valve amps sacrifice quite a bit in 'repairability' to be in at their price point. Personally I have a yen to have a big HH behind me again ... as most cheap valve stuff feels distinctly Noddy and Bigears to me.
Personally my favorite amp of all time was my JTM45 ... and after that my 100w JMP Super Lead ... and after that would come the HH VS 2x12 combo. I think there is a place for transistor technology ... when it's not trying to be valve. Oh and most modelling sounds wrong to my ears ... worse than a 70s combo
Formerly TheGuitarWeasel ... Oil City Pickups ... Oil City Blog
I think most people realise that 1970s tranny amps won't sound the same as valves ... they didn't then and they won't now. However there was a lot of good music played and recorded on those amps, and it's equally true that you can't get the same sound as a seventies HH IC100 out of a valve amp.
As far I was aware the change in amp buying habits from transistor back to valve I believe coincided with an influx of much cheaper 'PCB based' valve models ... like my own (7 year old) Laney ... many coming from China. Certainly when I packed up my shop in 92/93 the market was still mostly tranny, with the likes of Crate, Session and Roland dominating what people were buying. There were, of course, the 'hybrids' with one or more preamp valves ... and the 'Valvestates' were immensely popular. In real terms 'valve watts' are probably cheaper than they've ever been, but the cheapest valve amps sacrifice quite a bit in 'repairability' to be in at their price point. Personally I have a yen to have a big HH behind me again ... as most cheap valve stuff feels distinctly Noddy and Bigears to me.
Personally my favorite amp of all time was my JTM45 ... and after that my 100w JMP Super Lead ... and after that would come the HH VS 2x12 combo. I think there is a place for transistor technology ... when it's not trying to be valve. Oh and most modelling sounds wrong to my ears ... worse than a 70s combo
Formerly TheGuitarWeasel ... Oil City Pickups ... Oil City Blog
Nil Satis Nisi Optimum
Feedback
I think people have bought enough Peavey SS amps and also the Roland JC120 has a huge fan base proves that it can be done. A good amp is a good amp. valves don't make an amp good, the design and execution of that design makes it good. For every great valve amp there is also some pretty dodgy poorly built valve amps as well. The Blackstar HT range sounds less valve like than a peavey Bandit to my ears.
I'm afraid I disagree.
Most people buy Peavey SS amps because they can't afford anything else, or because the man in the shop recommended it and they don't know any better. They don't buy them on purely tonal grounds.
I can't agree either that the JC120 has a 'huge fan base'.
Yes, there are some poorly built valve amps, but that doesn't make solid state amps sound any better.
The proof of this subjective pudding is in the eating....valve amps still sell in large numbers, despite all their disadvantages.
EDIT: Just to reiterate, I'm not anti-SS, blindly pro-valve, or anything else. I've even bought and used SS amps in the past, and recommended them to my friends for their specific application and budget. I just don't think SS amps sound as good as valve, and I think I understand the reasons for that.
"Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski
"Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson
Fair points.
I'd like to see those tests too, it'd be interesting. Hype's a terrible thing, be it valve, Axe FX, Transtube, or any other. My preference for valve amps isn't hype-induced though.
Anyway, enough...
Found this video on youtube! Bit long I'm afraid, and reminds me of my tine in British manufacturing in the early 80's.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDvF89Bh27Y&list=PL9A166E3085CED13E
"The Blackburn Story" at it's peak in 1961, employing thousands of workers and capable of making 500,000 valves a day, at the time of making the film the announcer proudly declares that the people of Blackburn and the factory were ready to meet the demands of the day and prepared for the future. Well I guess they got some of that right!
I'm amazed that it was still running in 1984.
I wonder if valve manufacture will eventually become a boutique 'arts and crafts' industry?
"Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski
"Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson
"Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski
"Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson