Used Martin Rosewood Dread prices - Nov 21

BigPaulie · November 2021

As the title says. What's the going rate? There aren't too many out there just now.

Looking at a standard D28 or HD28, including re-imagined. Will also consider D-16RGT. Non vintage. Not interested in custom shop stuff or fancy VTS/special editions. Absolutely MUST be a Martin. Not looking for a guitar that's "as good as a Martin".

Will consider anything up to fully functioning player condition. Don't want a guitar that's been abused or in need of work.

This isn't in classifieds as a WTB thread because I'm still getting the funds together, but if something were available at a great price I could possibly catalyse the cashflow process.

Mellish · November 2021

The HD-28 Re-imagined is a great guitar. Finding one S/H might not be easy though. I got mine new in 2019 and totally love it. You can't see the forward-shifted bracing but you can certainly hear it. Good luck with your search

RickLucas · November 2021

I'm seeing D18s, D28s, D35s at around £2-2500.

BigPaulie · November 2021

Thanks. I have seen some Martins in the £2-2.5k mark, but as there are so few around I wondered if those prices are fair and realistic and are reflective of the actual sale prices...

I know something is considered worth what someone is willing to pay as the market dictates, but I always found in the past that people here had a more realistic view of appropriate values.

Tannin · November 2021

With Martins, certainly the mainstream everybody-wants-one Martins (D-18, D-28, HD-28, maybe you'd include the OM-28 and the 000-18) my experience is that used ones go for around 80% of the price of a new one, sometimes more. Yes, that's very high for a second-hand guitar, but those four or five "gold standard models" command a high resale. Some of the more obscure models, maybe not.

meltedbuzzbox · November 2021

I dont know the rates but I can recommend going to Coda-Music to check out their selection in the acoustic shop.
They had more Martins than you can shake a stick at. (I also got mine from there).

BigPaulie · November 2021

I've seen that Coda have a DR Centennial in with the Adi VTS top just now for £1499.

Looks like an interesting guitar, but a bit plain for me with the matt finish and lack of binding on the back edge.

idiotwindow · November 2021

BigPaulie said:

I've seen that Coda have a DR Centennial in with the Adi VTS top just now for £1499.

Looks like an interesting guitar, but a bit plain for me with the matt finish and lack of binding on the back edge.

The DR Centennial is a lot of Martin guitar for the money though it's worth noting that it doesn't have a traditional Standard series dovetail neck joint and has a rosewood fretboard instead of the ebony found on the D-28.

BigPaulie · November 2021

It's certainly "intriguing".

I'm not particularly fussed about the neck joint and fingerboard (my D-16GT has the simplified dovetail and Richlite and sounds/plays amazing).

It's just the plain appearance and (probably unjustified) perception of fragility that the satin top and lack of back binding that puts me off.

artiebear · November 2021

There is a s/h D35 going for £1899 at Promenade Music in Morecambe, Lancs. I've bought from them before and found them to be great to deal with..
Looking at the description, it's no case queen, but, on the surface, it's a classic Martin at a reasonable price.

BigPaulie · November 2021

Cheers. I'll take a gander at it.

malcolmkindness · November 2021

There's a well used D18 in Kerry, Ireland for €1800 on adverts.ie

BigPaulie · November 2021

Thanks for the heads up.

It must be rosewood as I already have a nice mahogany backed dread.

Maverick · November 2021

BigPaulie said:

I've seen that Coda have a DR Centennial in with the Adi VTS top just now for £1499.

Looks like an interesting guitar, but a bit plain for me with the matt finish and lack of binding on the back edge.

Surprised that's still there... Must have been up now for 2+ months

Guitarguitar was selling this model brand new for £1499 so probably over priced or a shitter

BigPaulie · November 2021

At that original price I'd agree that is overpriced.

Tannin · November 2021

I don't know when this model was £1499, but new prices have gone up quite a bit over the last year or two. Guitars I used to see new for $2595 are $2990 now; D-28s have gone from about $3900 to $4300 or so. So a mint condition example of a guitar sold new for £1499 pre-pandemic mightn't be too far off the mark at £1499 second-hand.

Lewy · November 2021

Maverick said:

BigPaulie said:

I've seen that Coda have a DR Centennial in with the Adi VTS top just now for £1499.

Looks like an interesting guitar, but a bit plain for me with the matt finish and lack of binding on the back edge.

Surprised that's still there... Must have been up now for 2+ months

Guitarguitar was selling this model brand new for £1499 so probably over priced or a shitter

It appears that one sold on here for £1400 earlier in the year so £1499 retail versus £1400 private sale doesn't seem outlandish. I'm not sure it matters that much what a retailer was selling them for if they're not selling them any more, because they're not making them any more. It's like the old greengrocer joke:

"The sprouts next door are half the price of yours"
"Buy them next door then"
"They haven't got any"
"Well when we haven't got any we'll do them for half the price too"

Either way, if I was in the market for a Dreadnought (already sorted in that front) I'd be all over a US built rosewood b/s Martin with a torrefied Adirondack top for that price. That one in Coda could be hanging around because it's a dog, but I think it more likely people are put off by plain looks and a satin finish and not really appreciating that the top means it's going to be up there sound-wise with the top end guitars Martin make.

BigPaulie · November 2021

Yeah, the market is all over the place. I'd hoped things would have calmed down somewhat by now, but stock is still really low and used prices are being driven up.

Thankfully I'm not in a hurry to buy and unless a bargain comes along I'm happy to wait it out while the market resets.

Mellish · November 2021

I think Reverb have a standard HD-28 listed for £1, 555.68 or they did have if it hasn't sold

BigPaulie · November 2021

When I see weird prices like £1555.68 on Reverb I assume it's due to being converted from another currency.
Really don't fancy importing a guitar as it won't prove much of s bargain once landed and tax/duty paid.

artiebear · November 2021

While understanding all that is being said here about the current market and the effect on pricing of s/h guitars, especially in light of a known issue for retailers getting hold of new Martins at the moment, I really don't think that there will be a reset in the future. New prices are only going one way while pushing up the s/h expectations. The post pandemic workplace along with a continued rise in the price of raw materials ( stored rosewood, mahogany has to be replenished with new as it is used ) plus continued rises in distribution costs, all mean that prices will continue to rise while new guitars will be less plentiful or will require a customer shift in terms of classic wood choices ( remember when all Martin's specified Mahogany for the neck, which quietly morphed into "genuine hardwood" on the spec sheet ).

I hope you get fixed up with something that ticks the boxes soon.

earwighoney · November 2021

artiebear said:

While understanding all that is being said here about the current market and the effect on pricing of s/h guitars, especially in light of a known issue for retailers getting hold of new Martins at the moment, I really don't think that there will be a reset in the future. New prices are only going one way while pushing up the s/h expectations. The post pandemic workplace along with a continued rise in the price of raw materials ( stored rosewood, mahogany has to be replenished with new as it is used ) plus continued rises in distribution costs, all mean that prices will continue to rise while new guitars will be less plentiful or will require a customer shift in terms of classic wood choices ( remember when all Martin's specified Mahogany for the neck, which quietly morphed into "genuine hardwood" on the spec sheet ).

I hope you get fixed up with something that ticks the boxes soon.

The genuine hardwood for necks is something which comes up on the Martin forum a lot, I think most of the time it's Spanish Cedar, or used to be.

I remember reading a few posts that Spanish Cedar has been used by Martin for pretty much as long as they have been making guitars.

artiebear · November 2021

earwighoney said:

artiebear said:

While understanding all that is being said here about the current market and the effect on pricing of s/h guitars, especially in light of a known issue for retailers getting hold of new Martins at the moment, I really don't think that there will be a reset in the future. New prices are only going one way while pushing up the s/h expectations. The post pandemic workplace along with a continued rise in the price of raw materials ( stored rosewood, mahogany has to be replenished with new as it is used ) plus continued rises in distribution costs, all mean that prices will continue to rise while new guitars will be less plentiful or will require a customer shift in terms of classic wood choices ( remember when all Martin's specified Mahogany for the neck, which quietly morphed into "genuine hardwood" on the spec sheet ).

I hope you get fixed up with something that ticks the boxes soon.

The genuine hardwood for necks is something which comes up on the Martin forum a lot, I think most of the time it's Spanish Cedar, or used to be.

I remember reading a few posts that Spanish Cedar has been used by Martin for pretty much as long as they have been making guitars.

Until approx 15 years ago it was specified as mahogany. Nothing at all wrong with Spanish Cedar as a wood, but the change from specific to vague was intentional.

Tannin · November 2021

Guitar buyers are incredibly hidebound, to the point of being downright stupid. People insist on having the same-old, same-old materials, even though there are many equally good or better alternatives, even though our understanding of timbers and how to use them has improved greatly over the last 50 years, even though supplies of the traditional timbers are limited and unsustainable, and average quality of those timbers is well down on what it was because the best trees have all long since been used and current supplies are just the leftovers.

Modern makers with a clue are well and truly awake to some of the excellent modern neck timbers which are more sustainable and more readily available. The two main manufacturers in my part of the world are examples: Cole Clark uses Queensland Maple (nothing to do with Northern Hemisphere maples, it is a rainforest species vaguely related to citrus) for virtually all necks. Down the road at Maton, they mostly use Blackwood (an Acacia) but also some Queensland Maple, with only one traditional high-end model line still sticking to mahogany. But note: that isn't because they think mahogany is the best neck timber, it is because that particular model line (unlike all their others) still uses traditional timbers. Their very best models use Blackwood, or in the case of the current $5000 Diamond 75th Anniversary model, Queensland Maple. Forward-looking manufacturers in other countries do similar things. Martin would too if only the more stupid of their customers would let them.

artiebear · November 2021

Tannin said:

Guitar buyers are incredibly hidebound, to the point of being downright stupid. People insist on having the same-old, same-old materials, even though there are many equally good or better alternatives, even though our understanding of timbers and how to use them has improved greatly over the last 50 years, even though supplies of the traditional timbers are limited and unsustainable, and average quality of those timbers is well down on what it was because the best trees have all long since been used and current supplies are just the leftovers.

Modern makers with a clue are well and truly awake to some of the excellent modern neck timbers which are more sustainable and more readily available. The two main manufacturers in my part of the world are examples: Cole Clark uses Queensland Maple (nothing to do with Northern Hemisphere maples, it is a rainforest species vaguely related to citrus) for virtually all necks. Down the road at Maton, they mostly use Blackwood (an Acacia) but also some Queensland Maple, with only one traditional high-end model line still sticking to mahogany. But note: that isn't because they think mahogany is the best neck timber, it is because that particular model line (unlike all their others) still uses traditional timbers. Their very best models use Blackwood, or in the case of the current $5000 Diamond 75th Anniversary model, Queensland Maple. Forward-looking manufacturers in other countries do similar things. Martin would too if only the more stupid of their customers would let them.

Thing is, Maton have no tradition to uphold so a pointless comparison. If a customer is buying a D28 they might ,rightly expect a guitar built to the design and woods that define a D28. I guess they are all stupid according to your definition. In truth Martin are not stupid enough to throw away the legacy which defines them, without that, they are gone. With regards to traditional materials, there are reasons why some work very well, others less so.

Tannin · November 2021

Nonsense. Maton is older than Fender.

artiebear · November 2021

Tannin said:

Nonsense. Maton is older than Fender.

So is my dad, your point being ? What's the Maton vintage market like and who the xxxx cares internationally ?

BigPaulie · November 2021

Tannin said:

Guitar buyers are incredibly hidebound, to the point of being downright stupid. People insist on having the same-old, same-old materials, even though there are many equally good or better alternatives, even though our understanding of timbers and how to use them has improved greatly over the last 50 years, even though supplies of the traditional timbers are limited and unsustainable, and average quality of those timbers is well down on what it was because the best trees have all long since been used and current supplies are just the leftovers.

Modern makers with a clue are well and truly awake to some of the excellent modern neck timbers which are more sustainable and more readily available. The two main manufacturers in my part of the world are examples: Cole Clark uses Queensland Maple (nothing to do with Northern Hemisphere maples, it is a rainforest species vaguely related to citrus) for virtually all necks. Down the road at Maton, they mostly use Blackwood (an Acacia) but also some Queensland Maple, with only one traditional high-end model line still sticking to mahogany. But note: that isn't because they think mahogany is the best neck timber, it is because that particular model line (unlike all their others) still uses traditional timbers. Their very best models use Blackwood, or in the case of the current $5000 Diamond 75th Anniversary model, Queensland Maple. Forward-looking manufacturers in other countries do similar things. Martin would too if only the more stupid of their customers would let them.

That's a very interesting post.

I'm all for using more sustainable timbers.

Please point me in the direction of a Maton or other guitar that's made from non traditional woods that sounds just like Don McLean's American Pie album. Because, for me, that's the sound in my head that I think of when I think "acoustic guitar". When I find that guitar I'll stop looking.

Tannin · November 2021

artiebear said:

Tannin said:

Nonsense. Maton is older than Fender.

So is my dad, your point being ? What's the Maton vintage market like and who the xxxx cares internationally ?

Highly sought after, but hard to get. Collectors pay serious money for rare models.

But you are teeing off on one particular brand that you know little about and have have taken a dislike to, where the point I made is that all of the good quality forward-looking manufacturers today are making guitars from more sustainable timbers, and actively looking to improve on their progress so far. All over the world, the better guitar makers are learning new tricks. In Europe, Furch uses a lot of sustainable local timbers. In the USA, Breedlove pioneered timbers which are now considered mainstream, and Taylor has done a lot of work on this too. Martin - history or no history - is very interested in developing new and better materials. The Martin management people are not stupid, they know perfectly well that there is no more Brazilian Rosewood and very little of several other traditional timbers, and bit by bit, they are switching to alternatives - and making excellent guitars from them, by the way.

artiebear · November 2021

Tannin said:

artiebear said:

Tannin said:

Nonsense. Maton is older than Fender.

So is my dad, your point being ? What's the Maton vintage market like and who the xxxx cares internationally ?

Highly sought after, but hard to get. Collectors pay serious money for rare models.

But you are teeing off on one particular brand that you know little about and have have taken a dislike to, where the point I made is that all of the good quality forward-looking manufacturers today are making guitars from more sustainable timbers, and actively looking to improve on their progress so far. All over the world, the better guitar makers are learning new tricks. In Europe, Furch uses a lot of sustainable local timbers. In the USA, Breedlove pioneered timbers which are now considered mainstream, and Taylor has done a lot of work on this too. Martin - history or no history - is very interested in developing new and better materials. The Martin management people are not stupid, they know perfectly well that there is no more Brazilian Rosewood and very little of several other traditional timbers, and bit by bit, they are switching to alternatives - and making excellent guitars from them, by the way.

No idea what "teeing off" is. You seem to be the only one focused upon Maton guitars, personally I couldn't care less about the brand ( or about Martin for that matter ). As it is, we all understand the arguments for sustainable woods etc.

markj · November 2021

I might be interested in selling my HD28 reimagined if you’re interested.

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Used Martin Rosewood Dread prices - Nov 21

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