How low is your acoustic action?

Open_G · October 2021

I've never measured it, but on a multi functional acoustic, I feel you need a bit of height to cover all your bases- slide, finger picking, chord bashing, moveable harmonics (I know what I mean- just don't know what they are called). The only thing that suffers from a bit of a higher action for me would be barring.

earwighoney · October 2021

I think my main acoustic a Stanford OM (Furch designed MIC version of their Om32) is 1.5mm for high E, and 2.5mm for Low E, and I'm finding it too low, and I play fingerstyle with a light touch, but I use lightish strings and tune to Open C.

I'm not sure how much relief it has, I can't measure it but I find my Stanford needs a bit more relief than my other guitars.

I'm in the midst of adjusting a new saddle, trying to adjust it to match the radius of my fretboard.

BillDL · October 2021

I have acoustics that I would prefer to have slightly lower action, but on some guitars you just won't get enough breakover angle from where the string meets the bridge at the pin and the saddle crown if you take too much off the saddle height. You can add some extra angle by carefully lengthening the short slots between the bridge pin holes and the saddle so that the string goes down below the surface of the bridge before it meets the bridge pin, but it's very easy to screw this up. I have a cheaper small bodied "Yamaha APX-Styled" electro-acoustic that has a very "electric" feel to it, but sanding down the saddle to get a low action left it with the associated tinny buzziness you get when there is insufficient breakover angle on the saddle even after deepening and lengthening the slots between the pin holes and the saddle. The last time I restrung it I dug out my Dremel and used a mini sanding drum to grind a flat depression into the bridge a bit beyond the outside pin holes and a short distance back from the saddle. I re-reamed the pin holes and added new string grooves, and the strings now delve down a bit lower than the height of the rest of the saddle and provide that much needed additional breakover angle. I have a feeling that I recently saw a commercially available acoustic guitar that uses this same principle of a stepped bridge height, but I can't recall what make it was.

For me the correct nut action is a lot more important than the action at the 12th fret. It's quite painstaking to gradually deepen the string slots in the nut and keep retuning and testing until you get the best compromise between ease of fretting in the first few frets and lack of fret buzz, but it's well worth it and the guitar will intonate better. I have one acoustic where the 1st fret action is practically no-existent. It has what I suppose would be a medium action for an acoustic and the relief is unremarkable, but it plays effotlessly without any buzzing up to just above the body joint, which is as high as I ever need to play anyway.

All my acoustics have very different actions because I use them for different styles of playing.

Lewy · October 2021

artiebear said:

Regarding relief, I was setting up a Gibson J-185 this week, which plays at it's best with almost zero discernible relief ( it is there but need a backlight to see it ) while the 12th fret action is the usual 3/32" to 2/32"

My Collings D1A currently has, as far as I can tell, a perfectly straight neck by virtue of me recently changing from 13s to 12s and not getting round to tweaking the truss rod. With a 12th fret action dead on 3/32 and 2/32 it has zero buzz. I do wonder how much of people’s varying experience is down to how much you have to hit the guitar to get it to give up the goods. If it’s loud enough with less required twatting, the less relief required.

stratman3142 · October 2021

Mine's about 3.5mm. I've never considered it a problem. But maybe that's why I can't play like Mike Dawes.

artiebear · October 2021

Lewy said:

artiebear said:

Regarding relief, I was setting up a Gibson J-185 this week, which plays at it's best with almost zero discernible relief ( it is there but need a backlight to see it ) while the 12th fret action is the usual 3/32" to 2/32"

My Collings D1A currently has, as far as I can tell, a perfectly straight neck by virtue of me recently changing from 13s to 12s and not getting round to tweaking the truss rod. With a 12th fret action dead on 3/32 and 2/32 it has zero buzz. I do wonder how much of people’s varying experience is down to how much you have to hit the guitar to get it to give up the goods. If it’s loud enough with less required twatting, the less relief required.

Could be something in that. I have had to learn to lighten up my right hand a bit even when playing finger style. I was finding that I could make some fellow players guitars rattle and buzz like crazy when my own guitars were set up higher and heavier. Since I've consciously reigned it in, I am really enjoying the low and straight set up approach.

As far as that J185 goes it's so straight it feels like it shouldn't work. After sighting it and checking with a straight edge, I did go out of my way to try to make it buzz. By some miracle, I couldn't get it to do so. Other guitars I play would be hopeless with that set up, especially when drop tuning etc which has a further small but critical effect on neck tension.

Lebarque · October 2021

You're trying to turn your acoustic into a Jem, aren't you, @fastonebaz ;?

ToneControl · October 2021

need to know how people are measuring this - it can vary massively with some methods,
those steel or plastic credit-card sized things are the easiest

Given that I like my electrics with a higher action than normal, it's ironic that I like my acoustics with an action lower than usual: if possible, Bass 2.25mm; Treble 1.75mm, otherwise a bit higher

fastonebaz · October 2021

Lebarque said:

You're trying to turn your acoustic into a Jem, aren't you, @fastonebaz ;?

Yup. Actually I sold my Ibanez euphoria EP9 Vai acoustic which did play like an electric the action was so smooth and low. Got a Faith now.

Mellish · October 2021

I'm measuring with capo on 1st, hold down at body join, feeler gauge at 7th. At 12th,stacked feelers

Danny1969 · October 2021

Mines about 1.5mm, if that. Basically same as I have my electrics. I'm not a hard strummer and do a lot of country lead stuff
on it so I like the action really low.

ICBM · October 2021

ToneControl said:

Given that I like my electrics with a higher action than normal, it's ironic that I like my acoustics with an action lower than usual: if possible, Bass 2.25mm; Treble 1.75mm, otherwise a bit higher

I do something similar - I mostly use 11s on both types of guitar, although I do have the action slightly higher on an acoustic.

Mellish said:

I'm measuring with capo on 1st, hold down at body join, feeler gauge at 7th. At 12th,stacked feelers

I do it with a steel ruler on the 12th fret, with the guitar held normally.

If you capo at the first fret it will be noticeably lower, even if the nut is cut correctly.

Mellish · October 2021

@ICBM I didn't make it clear, sorry. The capo is just for measuring relief. Action at 12th is no capo

fastonebaz · October 2021

Danny1969 said:

Mines about 1.5mm, if that. Basically same as I have my electrics. I'm not a hard strummer and do a lot of country lead stuff
on it so I like the action really low.

That sounds about what I want to be aiming for.

Keefy · October 2021

Just measured mine. It's aTaylor 310 and I replaced the original saddle with one that I had filed down quite a bit.

At the 12th fret I have roughly (steel ruler) 2.5mm on the low E and just less than 2mm on the high E. I could take it slightly lower but it might make the strings foul on the soundhole pickup that I fitted (LR Baggs M80).

yocky · October 2021

3/253440 of a furlong, 2.4mm

Can we just ban imperial already?

sev112 · October 2021

Keefy said:

Just measured mine. It's aTaylor 310 and I replaced the original saddle with one that I had filed down quite a bit.

At the 12th fret I have roughly (steel ruler) 2.5mm on the low E and just less than 2mm on the high E. I could take it slightly lower but it might make the strings foul on the soundhole pickup that I fitted (LR Baggs M80).

My Taylor 114 and daughter’s GS Mini, feel/seem noticeably high, esp the latter which I’d not noticed when I bought it a couple of months back.

Spoken with Taylor and Andertons, both extremely helpful, offered me a reset on the Mini, but told me to look at humidity as it has been a wet summer and they are noticing a lot of acoustics swelling this summer/autumn. So I’ve got the hygrometers on them both in their cases and will see later what they equilibriate to.

Keefy · October 2021

sev112 said:

Keefy said:

Just measured mine. It's aTaylor 310 and I replaced the original saddle with one that I had filed down quite a bit.

At the 12th fret I have roughly (steel ruler) 2.5mm on the low E and just less than 2mm on the high E. I could take it slightly lower but it might make the strings foul on the soundhole pickup that I fitted (LR Baggs M80).

My Taylor 114 and daughter’s GS Mini, feel/seem noticeably high, esp the latter which I’d not noticed when I bought it a couple of months back.

Spoken with Taylor and Andertons, both extremely helpful, offered me a reset on the Mini, but told me to look at humidity as it has been a wet summer and they are noticing a lot of acoustics swelling this summer/autumn. So I’ve got the hygrometers on them both in their cases and will see later what they equilibriate to.

I've had to make small truss rod adjustments when changing string gauge but haven't noticed any seasonal changes.

drofluf · October 2021

sev112 said:

Keefy said:

Just measured mine. It's aTaylor 310 and I replaced the original saddle with one that I had filed down quite a bit.

At the 12th fret I have roughly (steel ruler) 2.5mm on the low E and just less than 2mm on the high E. I could take it slightly lower but it might make the strings foul on the soundhole pickup that I fitted (LR Baggs M80).

My Taylor 114 and daughter’s GS Mini, feel/seem noticeably high, esp the latter which I’d not noticed when I bought it a couple of months back.

Spoken with Taylor and Andertons, both extremely helpful, offered me a reset on the Mini, but told me to look at humidity as it has been a wet summer and they are noticing a lot of acoustics swelling this summer/autumn. So I’ve got the hygrometers on them both in their cases and will see later what they equilibriate to.

Interesting, I thought perhaps I was imagining it but the action on my Martin seems to have increased slightly over the summer. Not enough to warrant a tweak but noticeable nevertheless.

Cirrus · October 2021

The action on my Alvarez GA is higher than it was at the start of the year, having barely used it. I actually only pulled it off the wall to measure it for this thread, but it's 2.6mm bass side, 2.25mm treble side. When I adjusted the bridge saddle a year ago it was 2.25 bass, 2 treble and that was perfect for me

sev112 · October 2021

So measured humidity this afternoon and evening. Near Reading.

rooms upstairs in a 18 year old house, insulated in loft. guitar rooo, daughters bedroom both rooms are 65% humidity

oustide in window ledge low 50s to 55

Our acoustic guitars hang on the wall in our rooms

humdiity inside our Taylor guitars cases 70 - 71 %

so putting them in their cases doesn’t seem good, and somehow I need to get the humidity down in those rooms

Intersting that with window open, outside 54%, inside window ledge 60%, and centre of room 64%

also our en suite shower room is 76% ! Eek, explains the damp smell recently

Suggestions welcome, as the action on our guitars is noticeably higher this last 2 - 3 weeks

artiebear · October 2021

sev112 said:

So measured humidity this afternoon and evening. Near Reading.

rooms upstairs in a 18 year old house, insulated in loft. guitar rooo, daughters bedroom both rooms are 65% humidity

oustide in window ledge low 50s to 55

Our acoustic guitars hang on the wall in our rooms

humdiity inside our Taylor guitars cases 70 - 71 %

so putting them in their cases doesn’t seem good, and somehow I need to get the humidity down in those rooms

Intersting that with window open, outside 54%, inside window ledge 60%, and centre of room 64%

also our en suite shower room is 76% ! Eek, explains the damp smell recently

Suggestions welcome, as the action on our guitars is noticeably higher this last 2 - 3 weeks

that does seem high. I have to be honest enough to admit that I never measure humidity, while being aware to the effects. Casing the instrument will help, unless the case itself is carrying higher levels of moisture ( very doubtful ). Most importantly, are your guitars showing signs of high humidity ( muddy / flabby sound and raised action ) ? Personally, I have never bothered about readings unless it noticeably affects the guitar.

On the other hand, my partner, tipped a folded wooden chair over into the side of my Lowden in my studio while listening to the results my paltry efforts today. Humidity 0 - partner 6 . ( we are not speaking, but the red wine is a healing balm )

sev112 · October 2021

Yep, both guitars really sounding less than bright and with increases action
and I read quite a bit yesterday about guitar cases and linings storing moisture

I shall see what Amazon and Klas Ohlsen have got tomorrow

yocky · October 2021

sev112 said:

So measured humidity this afternoon and evening. Near Reading.

rooms upstairs in a 18 year old house, insulated in loft. guitar rooo, daughters bedroom both rooms are 65% humidity

oustide in window ledge low 50s to 55

50 to 55% outside seems low. Met Office says 80 today

https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/observations/gcpk9yegm

Thing is a lot of it is just the air temperature. Outside is colder and so has a higher relative humidity. The living room I heat to 21 degrees has 55 to 60% currently - the rooms at 17 degrees are approaching 70% too. Unfortunately that points to turning the heating up as a solution which I don't want to do.

artiebear · October 2021

sev112 said:

Yep, both guitars really sounding less than bright and with increases action
and I read quite a bit yesterday about guitar cases and linings storing moisture

I shall see what Amazon and Klas Ohlsen have got tomorrow

Open the cases for a few days in a well aired environment, they soon dry out. Having said that, it is unusual for a closed case to assume much or any moisture. Hope you get it sorted.

TheBigDipper · October 2021

I moved house in 2013 at about the same time I realised I'd let my L'Arrivee develop a bellied top by leaving it on a stand in a room that got very hot in the sun. So, as a reaction, for the new house I started to research solutions to control the humidity in the room I used for guitars. I tried out a dehumidifier to control the humidity and started to get paranoid about the slightest change in readings.

It's a rabbit hole and I stopped. I got rid of the dehumidifier. I feel better now! My electrics (two are laminate top semis) sit on a stand out of any direct sunlight with a cloth cover over them to keep dust off. My solid top acoustics stay in their cases - out of direct sunlight. My laminate/metal topped resonator sits on a stand out of direct sunlight. 8 years later it's all been fine. I was overthinking it. I don't live in Arizona or the Amazon rainforest, I live on the South Coast of England.

The action on my acoustics changes during the year and a tiny tweak on the truss rod twice a year fixes it. That's what it's for.

Oh, and the action on my acoustics is similar to most peoples. :-)

Mellish · October 2021

@sev112 I had high humidity issues (often 65-70% and more). In summer I run a dehumidifier. In winter I use aids like the two-way humidity system (D`Addario) in the case

sev112 · October 2021

Mellish said:

@sev112 I had high humidity issues (often 65-70% and more). In summer I run a dehumidifier. In winter I use aids like the two-way humidity system (D`Addario) in the case

Thanks mate, do you mean a humidifier in summer rather than a dehumidifier?

ive got one of those (cheapish) chemical dehumidifies arriving today so I will give that a go. I’ve got a big dehumidifier bag in my car which I will take out and microwave and put in the guitar cases and see if I can dry them out.

it’s amazing how over many many years I’ve never noticed a significant effect - I knew that in certain times of the year my acoustic guitars just seems to blossom and sound wonderful, compared to others, but I’ve never noticed such an effect on action as this late summer / autumn!

Mellish · October 2021

@sev112. No, humidity is higher during summer. A dehumidifier knocks it down. You can set it to what you want, like 50% and it will keep the room close to that. You can get them from Curry's, Argos, Home base, stores like that

TheBigDipper · October 2021

Mellish said:

@sev112. No, humidity is higher during summer. A dehumidifier knocks it down. You can set it to what you want, like 50% and it will keep the room close to that. You can get them from Curry's, Argos, Home base, stores like that

In my post, I wrote humidifier when I really meant dehumidifier to take moisture out of the air.

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