Upgrade from beginner Guitar

CornishForest · August 2021

Hello
I’ve been learning for 2 years now on a Yamaha F310 which I had professionally set up.

I was wondering how much would you have to spend to get a noticeable upgrade.

What was your ‘ second guitar’ and was it worth it.

Thanks in advance.

TheMadMick · August 2021

It's a bit like the question "How many guitars do you want?"

Response "One more than you currently have?"

Depends what you're after in terms of both sound and longevity.

andymo · August 2021

Depends how much you wanna spend, if you want something very different, what you wanna play etc. etc etc.

But I'd suggest around £500 gets you to the next level

munckee · August 2021

You will always get more value for money buying used. I upgraded from a solid top Simon & Patrick to an all solid guild Westerley which I paid £450 for used and is a noticeable step up in quality and you can really hear the difference.

Kilgore · August 2021

I would spend some time thinking about what styles/genres of music you enjoy playing. It may or may not influence the type of guitar (in terms of size, shape, brand, etc) that you choose.

As always the best advice is to go and try as many guitars as you can to find out what you're drawn to.

DavidR · August 2021

You'll get some good advice from forum. Don't get rid of the Yamaha though. Lots of people subsequently regret not keeping their first instrument. Good Luck. Have fun. Try before you buy if you can.

hollywoodrox · August 2021

I would think about , what you like musically ,who inspires you , what would meet your playing needs ?

are you inspired by a band or player ? An option would be to get a model similar to or what they play .

do you play acoustic rock , small body ,electro acoustic cutaway that looks flashy (Yamaha apx ,Washburn etc)

do you play everley brothers, elvis ,Stones then possibly a super jumbo , epiphone dove or hummingbird .

country or country rock , Martin dreadnought style , takamine, epiphone ,Yamaha .

classical gypsy jazz etc favour certain types like nylon string ,maccaferri shape

blues could be anything , parlour I think like Clapton unplugged , can’t remember what he played if it was a parlour size Martin 000 , good alternatives can be had by sigma , cort,tanglewood ,takamine.

popular shapes are dreadnaught ( most familiar one everyone plays) Martin d28 style
super jumbo ,large narrow waisted projects well, everley brothers I think
APX ,small Yamaha electro acoustic .

good idea to find what artist inspires you , look up the name of what they play
if it’s expensive there will be a similar shaped styled one by another manufacturer at a better price

hope this is of help

hollywoodrox · August 2021

I have a soft spot for takamine as glen Frey ,Joe Walsh Fender etc The Eagles seemed to play them a lot . Keef Richards gibson hummingbird I had an epiphone version .

i had a solid body acoustic same size as a tele once , and a Dean Flying V Acoustic

FunkyGibbon · August 2021

My first real guitar was a Yamaha FG310 way back in 1981. I didn’t have it set up until 1985/6 so well done. The answer is listen to lots of acoustic music you like and think about what you like to play. Keep saving in you piggy bank and go out and play a *lot* of guitars that you like the look of. Pay no attention to the price. Ignore the brand. You’re unlikely to find the next guitar first time round so listen to them all, think about how they feel to play, and which one’s move you. If you pick up an expensive guitar and think ‘meh!’ Put it down and try something different but go back to it before you leave the store. It might have grown on you but my experience is once ‘meh!’ always ‘meh!’

when you’ve found some you like make a note of the make and model and then go back and play them again another day. See what grabs you the second time around.

Be very careful if the sales person says ‘this is better’. Play it and decide for yourself. If you find yourself agonising, step back, take a break. Go back and try them again.

Trust your gut and you ears. If you have a significant other who can read you take them with you and ask the to look at you as you play, they’ll help you identify the ones which sing back to you. Then work out what the tone woods are.

Pay attention to the feel of the neck and the nut width. The easier it is to play the more you will play it.

it took me two years to find the guitar in my head.

Don’t get too excited when you think you found it. Ask to play *every* other copy of the make and model they have in the shop. You wouldn’t believe the variation between two identical guitars with consecutive serial numbers.

Always take your tuner and de-tune and retune every instrument yourself in the refining stage. Sometimes shops tune low to make the instrument easier to play and sound richer.

pay attention to the weight. Better timber makes for a lighter guitar (less bracing required). Smell it, some timbers smell gorgeous.

If I had my time again I’d buy the 00-15 Martin I heard in 1987 but I thought I wanted a HD28. I didn’t but I was too fixated to realise it.

Set a budget which is as much as you can comfortably afford and the add £10. You’ll never regret spending as much/the best you can afford but it’s easy to regret a cheap thing which wasn’t what you really wanted.

buy the one that sings back to you. Negotiate a free set up and new set of strings on any thing over £300. My local luthier sets everything up properly and the will tweak the setup for you up to 6 months after and he doesn’t sell bonkers guitars.

buy a decent hard case. Your guitar will love you for ever.

You’ll know it when you play it and it doesn’t matter what anyone else thinks.

don’t buy unless you’re sure, so sure you can’t leave it in the shop.

enjoy the ride. And tell us what you buy.

FWIW, my brother has my FG310, it’s 40 years old and sounds awesome.

Andy79 · August 2021

FunkyGibbon said:

My first real guitar was a Yamaha FG310 way back in 1981. I didn’t have it set up until 19856 so we’ll done. The answer is listen to lots of acoustic music you like and think about what you like to play. Keep saving in you piggy bank and go out and play a *lot* of guitars that you like the look of. Pay no attention to the price. Ignore the brand. You’re unlikely to find the next guitar first time round so listen to them all, think about how they feel to play, and which one’s move you. If you pick up an expensive guitar and think ‘meh!’ Put it down and try something different but go back to it before you leave the store. It might have grown on you but my experience is once ‘meh!’ always ‘meh!’

when you’ve found some you like make a note of the make and model and then go back and play them again another day. See what grabs you the second time around.

Be very careful if the sales person says ‘this is better’. Play it and decide for yourself. If you find yourself agonising, step back, take a break. Go back and try them again.

Trust your gut and you ears. If you have a significant other who can read you take them with you and ask the to look at you as you play, they’ll help you identify the ones which sing back to you. Then work out what the tone woods are.

Pay attention to the feel of the neck and the nut width. The easier it is to play the more you play it.

it took me two years to find the guitar in my head.

Don’t get too excited when you think you found it. Ask to play *every* other copy of the make and model they have in the shop. You wouldn’t believe the variation between two guitars with consecutive serial numbers.

Always take your tuner and de-tune and retune every instrument yourself in the refining stage.

pay attention to the weight. Better timber makes for a lighter guitar (less bracing required). Smell it, some timbers smell gorgeous.

If I had my time again I’d buy the 00-15 Martin I heard in 1987 but I thought I wanted a HD28. I didn’t but I was too fixated to realise it.

Set a budget which is as much as you can comfortably afford and the add £10. You’ll never regret spending as much/the best you can afford but it’s easy to regret a cheap thing which wasn’t what you really wanted.

buy the one that sings back to you. Negotiate a free set up and new set of strings on any thing over £300. My local luthier sets everything up properly and the will tweak the setup for you up to 6 months after and he doesn’t bonkers guitars.

buy a decent hard case. Your guitar will love you for ever.

You’ll know it when you play it and it doesn’t matter what anyone else thinks.

don’t buy unless you’re sure, so sure you can’t leave it in the shop.

enjoy the ride. And tell us what you buy.

FWIW, my brother has my FG310, it’s 40 years old and sounds awesome.

Reminded me of that old Baz Luhrmann song. Nice.

If we were a few years ago I’d think to stump up the 1200 for a used J45. It does everything and it’s an actual definite step up but they are nowhere near that anymore and their current value is a bit scary. Sheesh, 18 months ago you could find a Gibson J35 or 15 for £750

Trouble is those mid price, 5-600 Far East guitars are good but I’m not sure you would see the step up with the fairly steep outlay. Forget the cheap Martins, junk.

Im saying a used Eastman. Probably the J45 copy.

Im not a particular J45 fanboy but they are very versatile and you can mould your emerging style around them.

The F310 is, unfortunately for you, a pretty decent guitar

LastMantra · August 2021

FunkyGibbon said:

My first real guitar was a Yamaha FG310 way back in 1981. I didn’t have it set up until 19856 so we’ll done. The answer is listen to lots of acoustic music you like and think about what you like to play. Keep saving in you piggy bank and go out and play a *lot* of guitars that you like the look of. Pay no attention to the price. Ignore the brand. You’re unlikely to find the next guitar first time round so listen to them all, think about how they feel to play, and which one’s move you. If you pick up an expensive guitar and think ‘meh!’ Put it down and try something different but go back to it before you leave the store. It might have grown on you but my experience is once ‘meh!’ always ‘meh!’

when you’ve found some you like make a note of the make and model and then go back and play them again another day. See what grabs you the second time around.

Be very careful if the sales person says ‘this is better’. Play it and decide for yourself. If you find yourself agonising, step back, take a break. Go back and try them again.

Trust your gut and you ears. If you have a significant other who can read you take them with you and ask the to look at you as you play, they’ll help you identify the ones which sing back to you. Then work out what the tone woods are.

Pay attention to the feel of the neck and the nut width. The easier it is to play the more you play it.

it took me two years to find the guitar in my head.

Don’t get too excited when you think you found it. Ask to play *every* other copy of the make and model they have in the shop. You wouldn’t believe the variation between two guitars with consecutive serial numbers.

Always take your tuner and de-tune and retune every instrument yourself in the refining stage.

pay attention to the weight. Better timber makes for a lighter guitar (less bracing required). Smell it, some timbers smell gorgeous.

If I had my time again I’d buy the 00-15 Martin I heard in 1987 but I thought I wanted a HD28. I didn’t but I was too fixated to realise it.

Set a budget which is as much as you can comfortably afford and the add £10. You’ll never regret spending as much/the best you can afford but it’s easy to regret a cheap thing which wasn’t what you really wanted.

buy the one that sings back to you. Negotiate a free set up and new set of strings on any thing over £300. My local luthier sets everything up properly and the will tweak the setup for you up to 6 months after and he doesn’t bonkers guitars.

buy a decent hard case. Your guitar will love you for ever.

You’ll know it when you play it and it doesn’t matter what anyone else thinks.

don’t buy unless you’re sure, so sure you can’t leave it in the shop.

enjoy the ride. And tell us what you buy.

FWIW, my brother has my FG310, it’s 40 years old and sounds awesome.

Jings! Stuff going shopping with you!

I just spotted one I liked the look of and bought it

CornishForest · August 2021

Thanks for the replies everyone.

As I’m only a beginner still I just want to see what everyone’s thoughts were on the starting price of the next step up as it were.

The guitars I’ve sorted looked at online ( not a lot of physical choice in Cornwall) and liked the idea of is Mahogany guitars both for a warmer sound ( my Yamaha is quite bright and tiny, might go up a gauge from 10s?) and to finger pick.

Looked at the Faith guitars both the Naked Venus and the Mercury but not sure if I want to go as small as the Mercury, think there is also a mini Neptune?

Anyway thanks again everyone.

DavidR · August 2021

Price is down to you. The market is very full with some amazing value from so many makers. Eastman was notable but others have caught up through Far East based business models. Cheap isn't the problem. Quality is the thing to look for and can still vary, but nowhere near as much as it did in previous decades.

The danger early on can be buying an expensive instrument which you then realise is sub-optimal for you personally. It can take a long time to work out what suits your changing style and interest. Also, we are all different sizes so acoustics are too. Dreadnoughts (like the FG310 mentioned) are big. OM's and parlour sized are smaller.

Typical acoustic strings are 12's but again up to you and the individual instrument.

Don't worry even a little bit about being a beginner. No-one ever gets happy with their playing ability on the guitar - so we all feel like beginners - most of the time!!

TheMadMick · August 2021

I trust your experience with Faith is better than mine. All those I tried were big and flabby in the bass. Mind you I like a tight tuneful bass. Guild are good at that.

If you really want a Faith, there's one for sale in Acoustics£. Certainly looks the part.

FunkyGibbon · August 2021

LastMantra said:

FunkyGibbon said:

My first real guitar was a Yamaha FG310 way back in 1981...

...enjoy the ride. And tell us what you buy.

FWIW, my brother has my FG310, it’s 40 years old and sounds awesome.

Jings! Stuff going shopping with you!

I just spotted one I liked the look of and bought it

I am outlining what I've learned over the last 45 years, some of it the hard way. I wouldn't do all that in a single trip :-) and I would do it over a period of time at least a couple of weeks... :-) Oh, and I'd enjoy myself.

To set the context, I can walk into a shop select something (both cheap and/or relatively expensive), buy it, walk out and never regret the purchase - I did this with an Adamas II way back in 1995. I've still got it and it was played in publicl ast Sunday.

@CornishForest - 10's are extra lights generally speaking, 12's are lights. Most guitar shops typically string with 12's in my experience. FWIW, the bright and tinny is partly the strings and partly the voicing of the Yamaha FG series, I've noticed that Yamaha's have a particular 'family sound'.

I agree with DavidR, the quality of instruments is significantly up on ehat it was at each and every price point. It is important to know what you're looking for. My 'obsession' with HD-28's was a complete red-herring and meant I played loads of Martin's and boutique equivalents over two years until I realised the guitar in my head was mahogany not rosewood. Then I bought a 00-15, a D18-GE and a couple of years ago an OM28 when I finally 'got' Rosewood.

For context the Bank of England inflation calculator shows my £110 Yamaha in 1985 cost the equivalent of £341 in today's money.

hollywoodrox · August 2021

CornishForest said:

Thanks for the replies everyone.
As I’m only a beginner still I just want to see what everyone’s thoughts were on the starting price of the next step up as it were.
The guitars I’ve sorted looked at online ( not a lot of physical choice in Cornwall) and liked the idea of is Mahogany guitars both for a warmer sound ( my Yamaha is quite bright and tiny, might go up a gauge from 10s?) and to finger pick.
Looked at the Faith guitars both the Naked Venus and the Mercury but not sure if I want to go as small as the Mercury, think there is also a mini Neptune?
Anyway thanks again everyone.

I’m currently selling a Neptune but it’s local pickup as it’s for a friend, they’re what you call mini jumbo , they seem popular with certain pub gigs round here in Devon

Kilgore · August 2021

Sigma make some good budget mahogany topped 00/000. Great for fingerstyle. There's also the Martin 15 series mahogany range if want to spend £1000+.
Plenty of choices/price points in between.

hollywoodrox · August 2021

When I got my takamine fd360sc in 99 it was over a period of about 6 months searching for the ultimate

Grampa · August 2021

I was the typical all the gear and no idea, now ended up with just one guitar, a PRS SE. Find one of these from the wide range that suits your needs and you'll probably never want for anything else.

Mellish · August 2021

I would say don't be in a hurry. Visit as many guitar stores as you can. Try every acoustic they have. You'll know when you find the right because you won't be able to leave it alone! Have fun searching.

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