Wanted: advice re Japanese ibanez model 620

buster406 · August 2021

Looking to buy an acoustic guitar however not really sure where to start so any advice would be great.

I play with pretty hard picks and tend to strum pretty heavy, often dropping to drop D or lower and am nervous I could end up getting something that is too delicate for me - having borrowed a freinds Martin dx1rae before for a few weeks I ended up with fret buzz (think I might of worn down saddle)?

Not sure if this is a common issue or just an issue with his setup?

Loved the sound of the Martin though and would definitely be interested in getting something similar.

Been having a look at schecters acoustic range - anyone know if these are any good can't see much about them online?

Something with a decent pick up would be perfect.

Got a budget of around 400 ish quid

Located in London

Pls send any advice and/or offers

Thanks in advance

rustneversleeps · August 2021

I would definitely take a look at Sigma they do many different types of acoustic.They have a close resemblance to the Martin sound.

drofluf · August 2021

Think it’s an issue with the setup of the guitar you played. It’s unlikely that you’d wear down the saddle by playing heavily.

There’s a Martin DX in the classifieds at the moment - no connection.

https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/211867/martin-dx1kae-450-ono#latest

Tannin · August 2021

Hi Buster.

There are two main ways you can overplay an acoustic:

(1) Make the string move outside its envelope - i.e., contact something it is not supposed to contact (frets, another string) or move at a point where it is supposed to be motionless (nut or bridge). There are four main variables: (i) how hard you hit, (ii) setup (always a compromise between low (easier to play) and high (less prone to buzz), (iii) string selection (heavier gauges are tighter for any given pitch and thus less prone to buzz), and (iv) tuning (tune down from standard and you get more buzz). All of these four are pretty much the same as on electrics - different in detail but broadly similar. Sensible string selection, a half-decent setup, something approximating standard tuning, and you should be good to go.

(2) Overdrive the top. If you hit an acoustic guitar hard enough, the top is unable to transfer all that energy smoothly and you get an ugly, distorted sound. (This is much the same thing that happens when you overdrive a speaker.) You have to hit pretty hard to do this. The larger and stiffer the top is, the more energy it takes to overdrive it. A small guitar with a soft top timber (redwood or cedar, for example) is more responsive to gentle playing but overdrives easily. A large guitar with a harder, stiffer top (spruce, Blackwood, Koa) needs more to get it going but is difficult to overdrive. Practical take-home: most mid-size and larger acoustics will be fine, anything in a larger model (dreadnought or jumbo) with a spruce top should be pretty much bullet-proof.

One last tip: if you like to hit hard, step up to a heavier string. Obviously, that makes your left hand work harder, so you have to find a compromise.

DavidR · August 2021

Don't forget Yamaha! Note you live in London so a jolly session at their Wardour St store would be fun. Yamaha acoustics not famous for having pickups, but their much vaunted Atmosfeel system is on some of them. I've not tried it out, being a bit of an acoustic purist, but reviews suggest quite fun.

FGX3 (dreadnought) and FSX3 (OM sized - smaller) might be a little above your price range but Yamaha acoustics without electrics certainly aren't. I have an FG830 which is really good and came shipped with high action which would suit your strumming style perhaps. £380'ish - if you can still find one. (Yamaha tend to market new marques quite frequently). Yamahas at that price point will be produced in China.

Also Eastman will be a good option for you. Chinese manufacturer with an impressive range of instruments, good rep and great value. Their PCH1 is at your price range.

More generally. don't be afraid to go into a store and tell them exactly what you want, try them out and don't feel compelled to buy. Stores these days are really good at helping customers and will suss out immediately if you are a browser or a buyer - and won't mind either.

Yamaha on Wardour St, PMT in Clerkenwell, Coda in Stevenage.

Second hand, Denmark St worth a walk down. Still quite a few stores there.

Auctions/on-line auctions - Google Gardiner-Houlgate auctions in Corsham near Bristol. I have never bought from there but I have sold 2 guitars via them over the years and it was a good service. (Always a bit risky/very risky to buy 2nd hand without seeing though).

Hope all that helps. Have fun.

ICBM · August 2021

It’s better to get one without factory-fitted electrics. You’ll pay more and compromise the quality of the guitar itself at what is a fairly tight price point. Get the best acoustic guitar you can for your budget, and fit a pickup later if you need to. (A second hand guitar with an aftermarket pickup installed might be the best of both worlds.)

If you play fairly hard and strum a lot I would definitely be looking for a Martin-style Dreadnought of some sort - the second hand DX is a good choice at that price. If it buzzes, it’s a set-up issue or the strings are too light - that’s not a normal problem with them.

crunchman · August 2021

There were a lot of Martin inspired guitars (and outright copies) made in Japan in the 70s and early 80s. FInding one of them second hand might be a decent option. I have a Joodee that I got new in 1982 that's quite decent. There are other less well known brands like Daion, Kimbara, and a few others that are pretty good, plus more well known brands like Ibanez.

If you do buy an old guitar, then check the condition of the frets. My Joodee needs a refret and it would be a lot of money to add to the cost. For a bound neck you are talking £300 upwards for a full refret from someone good, although you could just get the first 12 frets done on an acoustic.

TheMadMick · August 2021

Good advice. If you look on Acoustic£ you may find something to your liking? There are a couple of PRS's at about that price.

I really like mine, although it took quite a time to bed down, but I'm quite gentle with my pick.

Tannin · August 2021

It is probably a bit late for the "lawsuit era" Japanese guitars now. They have become too well known and can be very expensive. All-solid ones command a significant premium. But still, you never know your luck, so it doesn't pay to rule anything out.

tomjax · August 2021

One other thing to mention, if you have a heavy strumming technique you might want to avoid a guitar with a 'natural' top finish, ie one that is just stained and not lacquered. They scratch up VERY easily from plectrum strokes

The look of your guitar top might not bother you, but it's something else to consider when you're looking. Makers claim the stain tops help them vibrate easier for better tone and projection. There may be some truth in that but it's mostly a cost cutting measure to make the guitars more competitive at the price point.

andymo · August 2021

Have a look at the Eastman range and get a simple K&K pickup installed for about 100 quid.

Zoonyboy · August 2021

A well known studio recording engineer once "made" me play with a slightly softer pick. The recorded sound was much better than when I was hammering it with a heavy one. Also, look at Yamaha, especially used.

Redlester · August 2021

Zoonyboy said:

A well known studio recording engineer once "made" me play with a slightly softer pick. The recorded sound was much better than when I was hammering it with a heavy one. Also, look at Yamaha, especially used.

This. A thinner pick than you'd use for an electric is the order of the day. One tends to strum acoustics harder than electrics anyway, so a pick with some give in it will glide over the strings better and still let you push the guitar pretty hard.

TheMadMick · August 2021

Zoonyboy said:

A well known studio recording engineer once "made" me play with a slightly softer pick. The recorded sound was much better than when I was hammering it with a heavy one. Also, look at Yamaha, especially used.

There are a couple of Yamaha AC3R's out there in Acoustic£ at about the right price.

buster406 · August 2021

Hi guys,

Thank you so much for all your advice and help.
I went out to Denmark street yesterday and bought an old Japanese ibanez. I was told it was built in the fujijen factory - it plays really well and sounds great but I can find next to nothing about it online. I got it for £450 on the condition that I have a week to return it if I want so if anyone knows about these guitars at all and what their value is I'd be interested to hear.

There is no serial number I can find - all it says is modelo num 620.

This is the only proper page I could find about it

https://www.ibanezcollectors.com/discus/messages/11/3994.html?1174831965

I can't figure out how to post an image so if pictures would help if someone could explain how to upload a photo that'd be great

Thanks in advance

ICBM · August 2021

I’m sorry to have to say this, but I think you’ve paid *way* too much. Some of these old Japanese ply guitars have a nice character and a definite ‘vintage sound’ that you don’t get from a modern guitar, but at the end of the day they are still old cheap plywood guitars.

Dealers (especially there) try this sort of thing on all the time, adding hype about the particular factory or the ‘lawsuit’ word etc. when in fact it really means nothing - almost *all* cheap guitars were made in Japan back then in a number of large factories which the brands contracted the work to, it was not a mark of quality.

If you love it and you’re certain you’re going to keep it forever you might be able to put the price to one side, but if you change your mind later and try to sell it privately I think you’d be optimistic getting much more than half that. And I say that as someone who likes them… but I’d be happier nearer to a third of it.

Sorry

.

buster406 · August 2021

ICBM said:

I’m sorry to have to say this, but I think you’ve paid *way* too much. Some of these old Japanese ply guitars have a nice character and a definite ‘vintage sound’ that you don’t get from a modern guitar, but at the end of the day they are still old cheap plywood guitars.

Dealers (especially there) try this sort of thing on all the time, adding hype about the particular factory or the ‘lawsuit’ word etc. when in fact it really means nothing - almost *all* cheap guitars were made in Japan back then in a number of large factories which the brands contracted the work to, it was not a mark of quality.

If you love it and you’re certain you’re going to keep it forever you might be able to put the price to one side, but if you change your mind later and try to sell it privately I think you’d be optimistic getting much more than half that. And I say that as someone who likes them… but I’d be happier nearer to a third of it.

Sorry .

Dont be sorry - that's great advice exactly what I needed to hear - tysm!

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Wanted: advice re Japanese ibanez model 620

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