Advice please re Acoustic Guitar strings please.

jimkehoe · August 2021

I have a superb L’arrivee L05 fitted with a K&K.
I always use D’addario phosphor bronze and often alternate between 12s and 13s.
However I think partly because I have been playing my tele a lot- strung with 10’s I seem to be favouring 12s lately.

I am also slightly unhappy with the sound - too strident and bright when new and dull when played in.
I want something more mellow/full but not dull sounding.
Many many years ago on a different acoustic I seem to recall using La Bella silk and steel strings which seemed to satisfy my mellow but not dull requirement.
Does anyone have any recent experience or recommendations of current strings which may just keep me happy?
Thanks in anticipation.

drofluf · August 2021

There’s a whole thread on the subject here: https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/comment/3015928/#Comment_3015928

TLDR version: Newtone</end thread>

more · August 2021

The L'arrivee L05 are fattory fitted with D'Addario EXP 16 I believe L'arrivee respond better to medium upwards. I can't say for certain , but I think the silk and steel will be too light. 80/20 bronze are not as bright as phosphor bronze and a round core is not as bright as a hex core.

Winny_Pooh · August 2021

Newtone masterclass 12s

EreforGuitarGear · August 2021

Could try the D’addario Flat Tops, I haven’t used them myself and there seem to be conflicting reviews on them. Might be worth a shot.

jimkehoe · August 2021

Thanks for all the input - The Newtones seem favourite.

jimkehoe · August 2021

drofluf said:

There’s a whole thread on the subject here: https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/comment/3015928/#Comment_3015928

TLDR version: Newtone</end thread>

Sorry. What does this mean?

TLDR version: Newtone</end thread>

drofluf · August 2021

@jimkehoe TLDR = “Too long, didn’t read”

What I was trying to say was it’s a long thread that asked the same question and the consensus was to go for Newtones. The </end thread> was an attempt to humorously say no more discussion needed

stickyfiddle · August 2021

The only way to know is to try a bunch of stuff with you guitar, your hands and your ears. I spent a couple of years testing various recommendations for my HD28 and settled on Martin Retro monels - my own thread's here for what it's worth!

https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/112616/acoustic-strings-a-journey

jimkehoe · August 2021

drofluf said:

@jimkehoe TLDR = “Too long, didn’t read”

What I was trying to say was it’s a long thread that asked the same question and the consensus was to go for Newtones. The </end thread> was an attempt to humorously say no more discussion needed

Fair enough. I did read that thread but was interested to see anyone’s experience/thoughts on silk and steel as well. Obviously rarely used or known about. Maybe that tells its own tale.

jimkehoe · August 2021

stickyfiddle said:

The only way to know is to try a bunch of stuff with you guitar, your hands and your ears. I spent a couple of years testing various recommendations for my HD28 and settled on Martin Retro monels

Oh no - Another rabbit hole!

drofluf · August 2021

You originally said:

”I am also slightly unhappy with the sound - too strident and bright when new and dull when played in.
I want something more mellow/full but not dull sounding.”

I found that moving from d’Addarios to Newtone gave me exactly that a nice mellow sound and long lasting which I suppose addresses the not dull when played in part.

But every guitar is different and so are our preferences so try different sets to see what you prefer but start with Newtones

lots of fans here aside from me.

jimkehoe · August 2021

drofluf said:

You originally said:

”I am also slightly unhappy with the sound - too strident and bright when new and dull when played in.
I want something more mellow/full but not dull sounding.”

I found that moving from d’Addarios to Newtone gave me exactly that a nice mellow sound and long lasting which I suppose addresses the not dull when played in part.

But every guitar is different and so are our preferences so try different sets to see what you prefer but start with Newtones lots of fans here aside from me.

Will do - As soon as they have some stock!

Thanks for your help.

TheBigDipper · August 2021

@jimkehoe I know what you mean about the brashness of the D'Addarios when you first put them on.

My L'Arrivee L-01 (like yours, but much plainer to look at) sounds great with Elixir Nanoweb 80/20s. Balanced tone, nice volume. Not so brash when first fitted.

My Brook Taw sounds best with Elixir Polyweb 80/20s (the Nanowebs are too bright for me on this guitar).

On both those guitars I use a set of 11s. There's no significant difference in tone, volume or tuning stability over 12's but my fingertips get less wear and I can bend notes a little further if I want to. I use 10's on all my electrics, whatever the scale length.

My Martin 0-16 NY parlour guitar has Martin Silk'n'Steels and I like them on that over standard strings. They're quite low tension in comparison to standard strings. Not sure I'd want them on a bigger-bodied guitar but I've ne@ ;

I also liked Newtones, but they're often out of stock when I want to buy strings.

jimkehoe · August 2021

TheBigDipper said:

@jimkehoe I know what you mean about the brashness of the D'Addarios when you first put them on.

My L'Arrivee L-01 (like yours, but much plainer to look at) sounds great with Elixir Nanoweb 80/20s. Balanced tone, nice volume. Not so brash when first fitted.

My Brook Taw sounds best with Elixir Polyweb 80/20s (the Nanowebs are too bright for me on this guitar).

On both those guitars I use a set of 11s. There's no significant difference in tone, volume or tuning stability over 12's but my fingertips get less wear and I can bend notes a little further if I want to. I use 10's on all my electrics, whatever the scale length.

My Martin 0-16 NY parlour guitar has Martin Silk'n'Steels and I like them on that over standard strings. They're quite low tension in comparison to standard strings. Not sure I'd want them on a bigger-bodied guitar but I've ne@ ;

I also liked Newtones, but they're often out of stock when I want to buy strings.

Great. Thanks for this advice. I have used elixirs in the past but am not too keen on coated strings. I think I’ll get some Newtones when in stock.

Winny_Pooh · August 2021

jimkehoe said:

stickyfiddle said:

The only way to know is to try a bunch of stuff with you guitar, your hands and your ears. I spent a couple of years testing various recommendations for my HD28 and settled on Martin Retro monels

Oh no - Another rabbit hole!

Not at all

Monels are weirdly clangy/metallic yet a bit dark. An acquired taste.

stickyfiddle · August 2021

Winny_Pooh said:

jimkehoe said:

stickyfiddle said:

The only way to know is to try a bunch of stuff with you guitar, your hands and your ears. I spent a couple of years testing various recommendations for my HD28 and settled on Martin Retro monels

Oh no - Another rabbit hole!

Not at all Monels are weirdly clangy/metallic yet a bit dark. An acquired taste.

Acquired maybe. But I would describe them as "middy". Certainly not dark or clangy or metallic on my dread, and brighter than 2-day-old phosphors.

This is why I suggest you can only really tell by trying these things on your own kit with your own ears. Trust that above all else.

Tannin · August 2021

stickyfiddle said:

The only way to know is to try a bunch of stuff with you guitar, your hands and your ears. I spent a couple of years testing various recommendations for my HD28 and settled on Martin Retro monels

^ This is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. You must try things on your guitar, with your technique, your repertoire, and your ears. There is no such thing as a "best" type of string, let alone a "best brand".

Example: I fitted a set of the "consensus best brand" strings to my Angel a few weeks back, and the result could only be described as awful. It wasn't just a sound I did not like, I'd bet good money that nineteen guitarists out of twenty would hate it too. From that, am I justified in concluding that the brand of strings is no good? Certainly not! The only conclusion I can safely draw is that the particular combination of gauge, type, brand, and alloy doesn't work on the particular guitar. (I'll order the same ones again sometime; I'm fairly confident that they would work very well on my Maton dreadnought - but as always, I won't know for sure until I try.)

Do you just close your eyes and try stuff at random then? No, there are still general rules that can guide you. It is a big help to know where you are starting from: D'Addario EJ16s. My guess is that you would find silk and steel too mellow, but try a set to be sure. When you say "too strident and bright when new", do you mean for the first hour? First day? Or first week?

Different string materials produce a hierarchy of brightness. From most bright to least bright:

aluminium bronze (very bright)
brass (also incorrectly called 80/20 "bronze")
phosphor bronze
Monel
nickel bronze (very dark)

There are also odd-bod strings which are harder to classify in the hierarchy: silk and steel, 85/15 alloy, flatwounds, probably some others I can't think of. And different manufacturers do the same things in different ways; for example, a rough-surfaced string, all else being equal, will sound brighter than a smooth one. Wear characteristics vary too. Most notably, brass strings (which are very bright when new and through the mid-period of their lifespan) go very soft and mild when they get well-worn. More's remarks notwithstanding, brass strings are significantly brighter than phosphor bronze right through their normal playing life - when fresh on they can be very shouty indeed. It is only when they go dead (typically after more than a month of use) that they lose all the brightness they are renowned for.

So there are complexities and contradictions, nevertheless in broad if you want a brighter sound, move one step up the hierarchy. If you want a darker sound, move down a step. The trouble here though Jim is that you want both brighter and darker!

Something I would certainly consider trying is Monel or nickel bronze.

jimkehoe · August 2021

Tannin said:

stickyfiddle said:

The only way to know is to try a bunch of stuff with you guitar, your hands and your ears. I spent a couple of years testing various recommendations for my HD28 and settled on Martin Retro monels

^ This is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. You must try things on your guitar, with your technique, your repertoire, and your ears. There is no such thing as a "best" type of string, let alone a "best brand".

Example: I fitted a set of the "consensus best brand" strings to my Angel a few weeks back, and the result could only be described as awful. It wasn't just a sound I did not like, I'd bet good money that nineteen guitarists out of twenty would hate it too. From that, am I justified in concluding that the brand of strings is no good? Certainly not! The only conclusion I can safely draw is that the particular combination of gauge, type, brand, and alloy doesn't work on the particular guitar. (I'll order the same ones again sometime; I'm fairly confident that they would work very well on my Maton dreadnought - but as always, I won't know for sure until I try.)

Do you just close your eyes and try stuff at random then? No, there are still general rules that can guide you. It is a big help to know where you are starting from: D'Addario EJ16s. My guess is that you would find silk and steel too mellow, but try a set to be sure. When you say "too strident and bright when new", do you mean for the first hour? First day? Or first week?

Different string materials produce a hierarchy of brightness. From most bright to least bright:

aluminium bronze (very bright)
brass (also incorrectly called 80/20 "bronze")
phosphor bronze
Monel
nickel bronze (very dark)

There are also odd-bod strings which are harder to classify in the hierarchy: silk and steel, 85/15 alloy, flatwounds, probably some others I can't think of. And different manufacturers do the same things in different ways; for example, a rough-surfaced string, all else being equal, will sound brighter than a smooth one. Wear characteristics vary too. Most notably, brass strings (which are very bright when new and through the mid-period of their lifespan) go very soft and mild when they get well-worn. More's remarks notwithstanding, brass strings are significantly brighter than phosphor bronze right through their normal playing life - when fresh on they can be very shouty indeed. It is only when they go dead (typically after more than a month of use) that they lose all the brightness they are renowned for.

So there are complexities and contradictions, nevertheless in broad if you want a brighter sound, move one step up the hierarchy. If you want a darker sound, move down a step. The trouble here though Jim is that you want both brighter and darker!

Something I would certainly consider trying is Monel or nickel bronze.

Wise words- I guess you're right I want mellow but not dull. I think a good starting point is definitely the Newtones once in stock.

Lestratcaster · August 2021

I'm in the process of trying different strings with my newly acquired D28. It came stocked with the SP Authentic 80/20's, they threw in free packs of 12's and 11's which I've put on and not a fan of. Next to try is the Lifespan Phosphor Bronze and then Elixirs!

wrinkleygit · August 2021

If you order direct from Newtone, never wait for them to show in stock, just place an order and they will turn back orders around quickly, normally 10 days or less, my favourite are Heritage 12-51, easy on my arthritic fingers, enjoy.

jimkehoe · August 2021

wrinkleygit said:

If you order direct from Newtone, never wait for them to show in stock, just place an order and they will turn back orders around quickly, normally 10 days or less, my favourite are Heritage 12-51, easy on my arthritic fingers, enjoy.

Thanks - I’ve just ordered 2 sets.

wrinkleygit · August 2021

When the strings arrive, before you fit them, read this

https://newtonestrings.com/do-not-cut-newtone-strings/

As they are hand wound you need to treat them a little differently to mass produced strings, once you’ve fitted your first set it will become second nature.

jimkehoe · August 2021

wrinkleygit said:

When the strings arrive, before you fit them, read this

https://newtonestrings.com/do-not-cut-newtone-strings/

As they are hand wound you need to treat them a little differently to mass produced strings, once you’ve fitted your first set it will become second nature.

Brilliant - Thanks I will do.

ICBM · August 2021

wrinkleygit said:

As they are hand wound you need to treat them a little differently to mass produced strings, once you’ve fitted your first set it will become second nature.

It's not because they're hand wound, it's because the cores are round-section and don't grip the wrap. Most other strings are hexagonal core.

Luckily, on the standard posts on almost all acoustic guitars, it isn't an issue if you fit the strings correctly - whichever of the two alternative best methods you - since you always put the string through the post, bend it, wind on and tune up before you cut off the loose end. If you don't you're doing it wrong anyway!

The real problem is with Fender-style split-post/hole down the middle tuners, which a very few acoustics have too. (And Floyd Rose bridges, I don't think you can use Newtones with those.)

So not one of these

Image: https://i.pinimg.com/originals/cc/ea/58/ccea58bf07f1bb53049a6a05da793dea.jpg

jaymenon · August 2021

Try a set of Elixirs - nothing lost if you really don't like them...

...and if you do, then they stay the same for months and months.

jimkehoe · August 2021

jaymenon said:

Try a set of Elixirs - nothing lost if you really don't like them...

...and if you do, then they stay the same for months and months.

I have tried elixirs and find them fine strings but not exactly what I’m after.. Have just got a couple of sets of Newtones so looking forward to heat what they’re like.

Mellish · August 2021

@jimkehoe. Try Martin MA140 or MA140T. They have a non-British sound right out of the packet. They're 12 gauge. The 140T are treated for longer life and and both are 80/20 bronze.

Mellish · August 2021

That's bright not British!

LastMantra · August 2021

I tried some semi-flat (flat top?) strings in an attempt to reduce scratchy sounds but noticed they sounded quite mellow compared to the previous lot.

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Advice please re Acoustic Guitar strings please.

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