Lowden guitars

thomasross20 · October 2017

I notice up near the nut end some Lowdens .. the wood protrudes at the back of the neck. What's that about?

TheBigDipper · October 2017

I like the sound of nearly every Lowden I've tried. Two weeks ago I dropped into Guitar Guitar at Camden and tried the Wee Lowden they had on the wall. Beautifully made and looked fab. Sounded totally horrible and boxy. What a let down.

thomasross20 · October 2017

I think that's a characteristic of those smaller guitars.. regardless of maker.

Moe_Zambeek · October 2017

thomasross20 said:

I notice up near the nut end some Lowdens .. the wood protrudes at the back of the neck. What's that about?

It's a volute, for strength behind the nut area, all Lowdens (I think) have them.

i agree about the Wee Lowden - they sound small and boxy, but all small guitars do. Compare it to something like a modern production Gibson L-00 or something and you'll see the difference...but i'd not spend 3k on either one

ToneControl · October 2017

thomasross20 said:

ICBM said:

They're beautifully made, and beautiful sounding - but they're a fingerpicker's/soloist's guitar really, not a strummer's. I had an O10 years ago, which I loved when played by itself but it had no punch in a band mix. Too delicate-sounding for my clumsy thrashing, and the volume in the sound is at the very bottom end not the midrange, so it gets lost easily. They suit open 'Celtic' style tunings more than any other guitar I've heard though, except maybe for McIlroy. (McIlroy used to work for Lowden originally.)

Be careful if you're buying an older Lowden, the company has been through a few changes and not all the guitars are 'proper' Lowdens - some were made under licence, and although they're not bad, they're not in the same league as the handmade Lowdens and are worth a fraction of the price. But you can also quite often find bargains if you don't mind wear and tear - a lot of folk players seem to treat their instruments very badly, and Lowdens don't escape unfortunately.

I finally got a few hours to myself yesterday so went to a guitar shop for the first tim ein about half a year (or so it feels like) to see what's new. Surprisingly I was preferring the Taylors to the Martins, and yet the Lowdens beat them all IMO. Pricey... But I noticed the dip in mid-range as you say. Probably harder to get that out in a band mix, whereas [sorry to mention yet again] Larrivee has a pronounced mid-range and I find needs next to no EQ. Saying that, I couldn't imagine playing an acoustic as part of a band mix - it'd be solo fingerstyle (I'm REALLY into acoustic now...) - so maybe not a huge issue?

Did you try any cedar ones?
I generally prefer them (I'm very much a fingerpicker, never use a plectrum on acoustics) Also I prefer the big bodies, not much cause to worry about boom when you are fingerpicking

ToneControl · October 2017

thomasross20 said:

I think that's a characteristic of those smaller guitars.. regardless of maker.

yes, I've been baffled about the surge in popularity
they are fine amplified, or OK strummed, or as a travel guitar,
but to spend Lowden money on something that is intrinsically lacking in "in the room" sound is beyond my budget

thomasross20 · October 2017

+1.

Re cedar, I honestly forget, I tried so many!

TheBigDipper · October 2017

thomasross20 said:

I think that's a characteristic of those smaller guitars.. regardless of maker.

Moe_Zambeek said:

thomasross20 said:

I notice up near the nut end some Lowdens .. the wood protrudes at the back of the neck. What's that about?

It's a volute, for strength behind the nut area, all Lowdens (I think) have them.

i agree about the Wee Lowden - they sound small and boxy, but all small guitars do. Compare it to something like a modern production Gibson L-00 or something and you'll see the difference...but i'd not spend 3k on either one

Lowden talks up the work he's done on the Wee L to overcome that characteristic of smaller bodies. I expected more. My 0-16NY is small bodied, but doesn't sound boxy, just balanced, quieter, without a pronounced bass - the Wee L sounded like it was made of plywood. Atkins also makes a parlour guitar that plays and sounds nice.

Does anyone own a Wee L and disagree? I could have been playing a workshop turkey that escaped...

thomasross20 · October 2017

I tried one and while a tad boxy, it was better than most other smaller guitars.

earwighoney · October 2017

thomasross20 said:

I also wonder... ok, so you're meant to go out and gig guitars, but acoustics are more susceptible to environment changes, they're more "fragile" - I think for any sort of performance acoustic, I'd opt for something a tad cheaper with maybe less of a celtic sound? While the overtones sound amazing, I've often wondered if the sound is a bit too Celtic. Or maybe I'm talking b@llocks. Satin finish for the win, obviously... (I'm warming to the idea of getting Sheena's signature imprinted on the headstock of an acoustic... or even a plate screwed on with it inscribed on the plate).

@thomasross20 ;

If you're looking for something along the lines of a Lowden but maybe a little less 'Celtic' (I know what you mean by that description) the fortunate thing is there are a lot of guitar makers who graduated from the Lowden workshop to start up their own workshop, McIlroy & Avalon being the most famous ones but there are others. There's another guy who's guitars look amazing (who's name I forgot) and his prices are a lot less than Lowden, also @AliGorie has a friend who was at Lowden as well, who I think has moved back to Scotland.

thomasross20 · October 2017

I've been watching the Shorline music vids on YouTube - those McIlroy's sound good!
I think those other brands, while still less than Lowden, are pricey compared to (my often touted) Larrivee?

earwighoney · October 2017

thomasross20 said:

I've been watching the Shorline music vids on YouTube - those McIlroy's sound good!
I think those other brands, while still less than Lowden, are pricey compared to (my often touted) Larrivee?

The maker who I was thinking of is linked below and his prices have risen a fair chunk since I last remember seeing - and his base is more than the early series Larrivees, about the same as the higher range ones.

https://www.facebook.com/mcnallyguitars/
https://www.mcnallyguitars.com

thomasross20 · October 2017

They look stunning though I can't see any prices..?

CHRISB50 · October 2017

I miss my Lowden but they are quite niche guitars.

I had an O22, so mahogany back and sides with a red cedar top.

For me it was strictly a solo fingerstyle guitar. Strummed, it didn't sound very good at all. Put in too much power and it just broke up. If you treated it with a bit of respect it sounded like a thing of beauty. Loads of overtones and natural reverb. It was a pretty haunting tone.

I've always assumed the popularity of the smaller body guitars is ease of play or the perception of. The O is a BIG guitar. When I first sat with it I couldn't play the bloody thing, but it is something I quickly got used to.

thomasross20 · October 2017

Sorry I see the prices now! I was on my mobile..

AliGorie · October 2017

I see a the mention of Lowdens being especially good for the 'celtic' genre, I just don't hear that. They are a modern sounding alternative to the trad American tone - thats it - so Pierre Bensusan has played one for many yrs but then theres Andy Mckee all those yrs ago on utube playing 'modern' style music on an 'F' model would suggest Lowdies have a Candy Rat sound ?.

Dominic · October 2017

I really don't like that tapping / banging style of acoustic playing that has become quite popular and I don't like the guitar being used as a cahon -it just doesn't work for me but if you must do it a Lowden is best.
I think they do have a Celtic sound but they also have a crystal clear Piano type quality when gently played .They strum with a superb clarity but not the Martin middle body sound if that's what you like.
If Martins are the Acoustic Les Pauls then Lowdens are the articulate delicate Stratocasters

Plectrum · October 2017

Moe_Zambeek said:

thomasross20 said:

I notice up near the nut end some Lowdens .. the wood protrudes at the back of the neck. What's that about?

It's a volute, for strength behind the nut area, all Lowdens (I think) have them.

Personally, apart from electrics with Strat ot Tele type necks, I wouldn't touch a guitar which doesn't have a volute.

thomasross20 · October 2017

Oh? That's quite a statement !

AliGorie · October 2017

Plectrum said:

Moe_Zambeek said:

thomasross20 said:

I notice up near the nut end some Lowdens .. the wood protrudes at the back of the neck. What's that about?

It's a volute, for strength behind the nut area, all Lowdens (I think) have them.

Personally, apart from electrics with Strat ot Tele type necks, I wouldn't touch a guitar which doesn't have a volute.

I’ll try to answer

I’ll try to answer AFAIK,
1: if you look at the grain direction along the neck, it (should on a well built instrument, run parallel through the length of the neck stock. Now when you get to the headstock which goes off at an angle the ‘grain’ or wood fibers are cut short if it’s made from a one piece of timber.
So as with those old Les Paul’s, a blow to the headstock can cause the neck to brake around the back of the nut area where it’s weakest. Add to this problem area the truss rod reassess and string tension - ya got problems. Scarf joints of various kinds are a better solution - they also reduce timber waste but weren’t generally ‘acceptable’ in ‘quality’ guitar building in the 1970’s.
One of the many ‘improvements’ GL designed into his guitars was the lack of truss rod adjustment reassess just behind the nut and adding a ‘chin’ behind the nut area to add some strength to the structurally problematic transition point. This, as with many of the things he ‘adopted’ was taken straight from other tried and tested methods. this being from violin design -
https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/side-view-violin-neck-pegbox-scroll-isolated-white-71586726.jpg.
He also utilized the multiple piece neck (length wise) making a VERY stable construction.

2: the aesthetic of the ‘volute’ is an interesting one - it’s a leftover from the traditional V headstock to neck joint the actual ‘volute’ is an aesthetic embellishment to a joint - to make it look (disguise) pretty, the V joint was deemed to indicate superior construction and so we, guitar players being very conservative like to see a volute on our necks - I have a far eastern guitar that has a volute but its just for show - a selling point, it actually has a scarf joint behind the 1st / 3rd frets !.
Oh yeah - it’s very rock ’n roll - throw a telly outa a hotel window BUT I MUST have a volute !!.

look at the trad headstock / neck joint being done -

PS - meant to say - astute readers will have noticed that the trad V joint IS a solution to the week neck to h/stock problem, they had it all covered century's ago - it just doesn't lent it's self to mass production - it takes skill to and time execute. Oh and it is a more ecanomic use of timber - win, win.

jellyroll · October 2017

Bit confused by the V joint video. He chiselled the male and female parts so that there was an exact fit....but then glued them together at an angle (to get the neck break angle) ....which means that the male and female parts would only touch at one edge anyway?

AvalonAndy · October 2017

*

AliGorie · October 2017

jellyroll said:

Bit confused by the V joint video. He chiselled the male and female parts so that there was an exact fit....but then glued them together at an angle (to get the neck break angle) ....which means that the male and female parts would only touch at one edge anyway?

U'r right JR, not enough info.
in that vid - from 7.26 on you’ll see the (7deg) angel tilt of the headstock blank - this angel is created in the h/s blank when drawing it out the line - from back to front will be coupe or so mm ‘out of line with the opposite face on the h/s blanc.
heres a better view of whats going on - note you can angel the h/s OR neck blanc as seen here -
like this -
https://finelystrung.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/dsc_1365.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-OWv9WI3SOKU/VKjJ0N5z3kI/AAAAAAAACNE/1nDvvBONyQ8/s1600/P1070065.JPG

http://schrammguitars.com/esmaelian_004.jpg
https://finelystrung.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/dsc_1406.jpg

and while we're at it, how would ya like to execute this one -

http://www.acousticmasters.com/BridleJointExploded.jpg

http://www.acousticmasters.com/BridleJointAssembled.jpg

AliGorie · October 2017

Plectrum said:

Personally, apart from electrics with Strat ot Tele type necks, I wouldn't touch a guitar which doesn't have a volute.

my point was to Plectrum - though I know he had his tongue firmly in his cheek -

heres a good example of a cosmetic volute, it's just there for 'show' as the had stock to neck joint is a scarf joint which occurs on the neck shaft -

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-_DvjkquOecA/Txr1o_CIskI/AAAAAAAACWc/QkPqTm9Eo7M/s400/necks.JPG

jellyroll · October 2017

thanks @Aligorie that makes more sense

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