Good keyboard with weighted keys?

axisus · March 2021

Either 61 or 76 keys, either with built in sounds or not. Anyone know of any good ones? Pref not too modern as I will be looking for second hand!

I haven't looked into keyboards for about 25 years so I'm totally out of the loop.

goldtop · March 2021

Weighted like a piano? Tricky to find in 61/76 keys.

Or weighted with little metal weights glued under each key to give a bit of feel (compared to the ultra-lightweight cheapo synth type)? They are plentiful - I'd go for a Yamaha or Roland from 10+ years ago, such as a Fantom X6, X7 or S6, etc. Those are workstations, but you can also find simpler synths with the same keybeds (Yamaha V50).

I'm not up to speed with the sound-less MIDI controllers, though. They'd be MUCH cheaper, and also far lighter and take up less studio space.

lukedlb · April 2021

My requirements were a clean keyboard without any buttons or distractions. All I needed was a grand piano sound with weighted keys. I was lucky to buy a technics sx-p30. The few controls and jacks are hidden under the LHS. It also has a secret Rhodes sound. MIDI should I ever need to expand.

octatonic · April 2021

Budget?

Easier to find on 76 than a 61.
Studiologic SL73 comes to mind as a controller.
Various Nord's (6D for example) for something with sounds.

Why weighted?
Do you want to be playing piano?
If so then an electric piano (Roland, Kawaii, Yamaha etc) will be a good shout.
Fewer sounds, but a focus on playability.

If you want something that does it all then get out the big bucks.

axisus · April 2021

To be honest I'm not even thinking of budget at the moment, although I did mention 'secondhand' so as not to break the bank.

I have a weighted keys clavinova with midi output that I can use for stuff, But I want something that I can move around with me. I used to use my Korg N364, but having not touched it for a few years, the non weighted keys feel horrible. Feels like a toy. Semi-weighted - I have an M audio thing and that too feels horrible, although it was cheap.

octatonic · April 2021

axisus said:

To be honest I'm not even thinking of budget at the moment, although I did mention 'secondhand' so as not to break the bank.

I have a weighted keys clavinova with midi output that I can use for stuff, But I want something that I can move around with me. I used to use my Korg N364, but having not touched it for a few years, the non weighted keys feel horrible. Feels like a toy. Semi-weighted - I have an M audio thing and that too feels horrible, although it was cheap.

It is a tricky one then- you have a couple of choices.
You'll find many more weighted 88 note keyboards for sale than 61 or 76.
You should be able to nab a bargain.

If you definitely want a smaller keyboard then you might be waiting for quite a while if it has to be weighted.

Not all semi-weighted/synth weighted keyboards are crap.
Anything with a Fatar keybed is absolutely playable.
Personally I find some cheaper weighted hammer action keypads worse than good quality synth-weighted.

goldtop · April 2021

The standard answer to "piano-weighted" and "portable" and "cheap" is the Casio series.

But that means 88-keys. PX-5S is old, but gold (has a full-blown synth under the hood) and the more recent CDP-S100 is super-slim and very affordable. PX-S1000 slightly higher spec, ISTR.

ICBM · April 2021

Just get a Yamaha P-whatever is the lowest number you can find. 88 keys, but as small as a practical keyboard can be otherwise. The keyboard is the same as the more expensive models but the sounds are more limited - although perfectly good.

I have a P-35.

Funkfingers · April 2021

goldtop said:
I'd go for a Yamaha or Roland from 10+ years ago, such as a Fantom X6, X7 or S6, etc. Those are workstations but you can also find simpler synths with the same keybeds (Yamaha V50).

Roland XP-80 with hard case? Price dependent on how many SR-JV80-nn sound library expansion boards you require (and which ones!).

This has been my main keyboard since the aftertouch strip on my JX-10 turned as firm as concrete. I am willing to part with the XP because I have duplicates of all of its sounds in other Roland MIDI devices.

DESCRIPTION
https://www.roland.com/uk/products/xp-80/

REVIEW
http://www.vintagesynth.com/roland/xp80.php

REVERB (for price tracking reasons)
https://reverb.com/uk/p/roland-xp-80-76-key-64-voice-music-workstation-keyboard

goldtop · April 2021

ICBM said:

Just get a Yamaha P-whatever is the lowest number you can find. 88 keys, but as small as a practical keyboard can be otherwise. The keyboard is the same as the more expensive models but the sounds are more limited - although perfectly good.

I have a P-35.

Just noticed that there's a P121 which is has 73 piano-weighted keys. Same GHS keybed. P121 is super portable due to the size and weight.

Funkfingers said:

goldtop said:
I'd go for a Yamaha or Roland from 10+ years ago, such as a Fantom X6, X7 or S6, etc. Those are workstations but you can also find simpler synths with the same keybeds (Yamaha V50).

Roland XP-80 with hard case? Price dependent on how many SR-JV80-nn sound library expansion boards you require (and which ones!).

This has been my main keyboard since the aftertouch strip on my JX-10 turned as firm as concrete. I am willing to part with the XP because I have duplicates of all of its sounds in other Roland MIDI devices.

DESCRIPTION
https://www.roland.com/uk/products/xp-80/

REVIEW
http://www.vintagesynth.com/roland/xp80.php

REVERB (for price tracking reasons)
https://reverb.com/uk/p/roland-xp-80-76-key-64-voice-music-workstation-keyboard

Yup - that'd be a great buy.

v12cat · August 2021

Fatar SL760. I have had an SL880 for 20 years. It is now out of it's case and mounted in an old sawn off wooden upright piano. Brilliant piece of kit. Purely a midi controller.

Just noticed, very old thread!

thegummy · August 2021

goldtop said:

Just noticed that there's a P121 which is has 73 piano-weighted keys. Same GHS keybed. P121 is super portable due to the size and weight.

Thank you!

I've been looking for <88 key weighted keyboards for forever and they're so rare, can only remember one - the Studiologic one.

Kind of surprising it's like this with the virtual instrument and home studio thing being so big - there surely must be a market for weighted keys to be used for controlling soft synths rather than to play classical piano on and the 88 key boards are pretty big for a lot of home studios I'd imagine (and I'd be surprised if many used the full range for anything other than piano pieces that need it).

Even the top midi controllers whose 88 key version has fully weighted keys seem to invariably change to synth action for the other models.

paulmapp8306 · August 2021

Its pretty srandard to only use weighted keys for piano. Every other style benefits from synth, semi ot waterfall keys.

Most home studiod do use 88 keybefs for the weighted piano option.

Normsl setup, assuming a single board (which is common for home studios) is an 88 hammer if you need piano, or 61/48 (or smaller) synth action if you dont intend to use piano.

A lot have an 88 note main board for piano duties and a 37 synth for vsts.

RaymondLin · August 2021

I have a Yamaha P70 that I got off eBay 10 years ago. It even has MIDI at the back, 2 x 3.5mm jacks for headphones at the front. Not much in terms of a synth bar a few preset Piano/Organ/String voicings.

The problem with it is that it's not really portable, you need a sturdy stand so that it's does not wobble, they make a matching stand so make sure you get it unless you put it on a proper table.

Image: https://i.imgur.com/7Da0WCO.jpg?1

thegummy · August 2021

paulmapp8306 said:

Its pretty srandard to only use weighted keys for piano. Every other style benefits from synth, semi ot waterfall keys.

Nah that's not true, there are plenty of synth sounds that one might prefer to play on a weighted keyboard than an unweighted. It just depends what kind of patch it is and how you want to play it. Otherwise none of the classic synths would have come with a weighted keyboard.

For me, if the patch has a lot going on depending on velocity so I want to be precise then weighted makes it easier and if I want to play fast then an unweighted makes it easier.

paulmapp8306 · August 2021

thegummy said:

paulmapp8306 said:

Its pretty srandard to only use weighted keys for piano. Every other style benefits from synth, semi ot waterfall keys.

Nah that's not true, there are plenty of synth sounds that one might prefer to play on a weighted keyboard than an unweighted. It just depends what kind of patch it is and how you want to play it. Otherwise none of the classic synths would have come with a weighted keyboard.

For me, if the patch has a lot going on depending on velocity so I want to be precise then weighted makes it easier and if I want to play fast then an unweighted makes it easier.

no classic synth DID come with a weighted keyboard. I cant think of a single one. Many had what is commonly called "semi weighted" now, which isnt the same. its still a synth action bed - but tends to have a weight in the key and a touch of spring pressure under the bed. thats my preference synth bed normally, but a lot have that anyway - when they say "synth action" it often doesnt mean true "synth action" but semi weighted/sprung.

There tends to be 4 types these days. Synth - with no spring action a light keys (some classic synths had this), semi weighted with a little more heft to the keys and some spring pressure on the back of the key (which is what most classic synths had to some degree). Weighted (like a piano but no bounce back) and hammer action (true piano style feel if not constructions). My preference is hammer for piano, and semi for synths.

I agree with the velocity thing - but I find velocity is just as easy on a synth action bed than a hammer/weighted. speed is different but not velocity as such IMO. each to their own though, everyone is different.

If its that "semi weighted", sprung keybed common on classic synths your after - there are quite a few available options in 73/76/61 keys. You wont find weighted/hammer action on many under 88 - which is what I (for one) thought you were after given your use of "weighted",

goldtop · August 2021

^ Agreed.

Flimsy synth action is OK for cheap synths (MODX6, FA06) but the feel of semi-weighted keys on (e.g.) the Montage, Virus, etc, is much better.

Also worth checking: piano-weighted keybeds rarely have aftertouch*, which is another reason for having a second quality semi-weighted keyboard with it. I'm happy now, having settled on the Kawai ES8 and Waldorf STVC.

(*An honourable exception being the Oberheim MC2000 controller I sold here recently.)

thegummy · August 2021

paulmapp8306 said:

no classic synth DID come with a weighted keyboard. I cant think of a single one. Many had what is commonly called "semi weighted" now, which isnt the same. its still a synth action bed - but tends to have a weight in the key and a touch of spring pressure under the bed. thats my preference synth bed normally, but a lot have that anyway - when they say "synth action" it often doesnt mean true "synth action" but semi weighted/sprung.

There tends to be 4 types these days. Synth - with no spring action a light keys (some classic synths had this), semi weighted with a little more heft to the keys and some spring pressure on the back of the key (which is what most classic synths had to some degree). Weighted (like a piano but no bounce back) and hammer action (true piano style feel if not constructions). My preference is hammer for piano, and semi for synths.

I agree with the velocity thing - but I find velocity is just as easy on a synth action bed than a hammer/weighted. speed is different but not velocity as such IMO. each to their own though, everyone is different.

If its that "semi weighted", sprung keybed common on classic synths your after - there are quite a few available options in 73/76/61 keys. You wont find weighted/hammer action on many under 88 - which is what I (for one) thought you were after given your use of "weighted",

I wouldn't necessarily be after a hammer action but I've played all of the well known midi controllers that say they have "semi-weighted" and they just feel like less soft synth keys and don't give the velocity precision that a digital piano does. I've never been an acoustic pianist so it's not about being exactly like a piano for me, it's just about being able to choose the velocity of each note more precisely (in a way, like a microtonal bend on a guitar would be easier with heavier gauge strings).

As you say, it's just personal preference but it does surprise me that you find weighted useful for piano but not any other sound when there are synth patches that react to velocity similarly to a piano. To me it seems obvious that the best action for piano sounds would also be the best for those. Unless, of course, you are playing different music on the piano to what you're playing on synths then that would explain it.

thegummy · August 2021

goldtop said:

^ Agreed.

Flimsy synth action is OK for cheap synths (MODX6, FA06) but the feel of semi-weighted keys on (e.g.) the Montage, Virus, etc, is much better.

Also worth checking: piano-weighted keybeds rarely have aftertouch*, which is another reason for having a second quality semi-weighted keyboard with it. I'm happy now, having settled on the Kawai ES8 and Waldorf STVC.

(*An honourable exception being the Oberheim MC2000 controller I sold here recently.)

That was another thing I used to find strange along with there being no weighted <88 keys, that there was rarely aftertouch on weighted keybeds.

It has changed now though, they do generally now have it. At least, the top few brands I'd buy regardless of AT's inclusion do have it on their weighted 88 key controllers.

paulmapp8306 · August 2021

thegummy said:

goldtop said:

^ Agreed.

Flimsy synth action is OK for cheap synths (MODX6, FA06) but the feel of semi-weighted keys on (e.g.) the Montage, Virus, etc, is much better.

Also worth checking: piano-weighted keybeds rarely have aftertouch*, which is another reason for having a second quality semi-weighted keyboard with it. I'm happy now, having settled on the Kawai ES8 and Waldorf STVC.

(*An honourable exception being the Oberheim MC2000 controller I sold here recently.)

That was another thing I used to find strange along with there being no weighted <88 keys, that there was rarely aftertouch on weighted keybeds.

It has changed now though, they do generally now have it. At least, the top few brands I'd buy regardless of AT's inclusion do have it on their weighted 88 key controllers.

Again, its down to the weighted (mostly hammer) action beds being designed for piano use. Aftertouch on those keybeds are not good for piano. It changes how the keys bottom out. Most "pianists" dont like or wont use weighted/hammer boards with AT. Its also fair to say those that DO have at are not the same as synth at keybeds. They are stiffer (by necessity) and are most switches (on/off) with very little movement and certainly no real control between the 2.

I find - again personally - that a good quality semi weighted board is more than capable of pretty accurate control for velocity though. In fact Ive found some that are far better than Piano hammer action. The way the hammers work, particularly graduated hammer action, or those with escarpment mean it interferes with the velocity a little. Im not saying weighted here, but specifically hammer.

thegummy · August 2021

paulmapp8306 said:

Again, its down to the weighted (mostly hammer) action beds being designed for piano use. Aftertouch on those keybeds are not good for piano. It changes how the keys bottom out. Most "pianists" dont like or wont use weighted/hammer boards with AT. Its also fair to say those that DO have at are not the same as synth at keybeds. They are stiffer (by necessity) and are most switches (on/off) with very little movement and certainly no real control between the 2.

Useful info thanks, I assumed they'd managed to keep the exact same hammer action while also adding aftertouch. Glad you brought this up cause it didn't cross my mind that it might have been a compromise.

paulmapp8306 said:

I find - again personally - that a good quality semi weighted board is more than capable of pretty accurate control for velocity though. In fact Ive found some that are far better than Piano hammer action. The way the hammers work, particularly graduated hammer action, or those with escarpment mean it interferes with the velocity a little. Im not saying weighted here, but specifically hammer.

Any specific semi-weighted models you find useful for accurate velocity control? I've tried a lot of the well known ones from Novation, Akai etc.

I do still wonder why you don't use the semi-weighted one for piano sounds then?

goldtop · August 2021

thegummy said:

I do still wonder why you don't use the semi-weighted one for piano sounds then?

Semi-weighted keys are 'wrong' to play for pianists who are used to expressing themselves on a piano keyboard (or anyone trying to develop proper piano skills). The way that the keys return to the rest position, the need for triple sensors, etc.

Piano-weighted keys are also graded across the board, with different weight in the treble to the bass. Unlike a semi-weighted synth keyboard.

For me (a keyboard hack) the best thing about piano-weighted keys is that you have to work harder to be consistent and get the tone you want. Which is rather like playing guitar. A downside is that poor technique (pinkie/4th finger strength) shows up more readily than on a semi-weighted synth keyboard.

thegummy · August 2021

goldtop said:

Semi-weighted keys are 'wrong' to play for pianists who are used to expressing themselves on a piano keyboard (or anyone trying to develop proper piano skills). The way that the keys return to the rest position, the need for triple sensors, etc.

Yeah I know that's true for people who are used to an acoustic piano, I'm just interested if it's that or something else for him.

goldtop said:

For me (a keyboard hack) the best thing about piano-weighted keys is that you have to work harder to be consistent and get the tone you want. Which is rather like playing guitar. A downside is that poor technique (pinkie/4th finger strength) shows up more readily than on a semi-weighted synth keyboard.

See that surprises me. Say I had to play a game where I'd do play a piece and get as many notes hitting the same specific velocity as possible; I'd have thought I'd have a better chance with a digital piano style keyboard than on a synth style keyboard.

paulmapp8306 · August 2021

Because its not hammer action and has no escarpment. Thats critical for ptoper piano playing.

I assume your after a controller not synth? Whay functionality do ypu need snd what price point. Ideal size?

thegummy · August 2021

paulmapp8306 said:

Because its not hammer action and has no escarpment. Thats critical for ptoper piano playing.

I assume your after a controller not synth? Whay functionality do ypu need snd what price point. Ideal size?

I'm not actually the thread starter who's currently looking for a keyboard, though I do appreciate your info anyway for possible future purchases.

For years I've been looking for a weighted keyboard that's smaller than an 88 key but the only one I found was Studiologic's lowest end one which gets a bit of mixed feedback online. If there's a particular semi-weighted one you find to have good controllable action, I'd be grateful for a recommendation if it's not one I've already tried. I'm not playing Romantic piano nocturnes or anything, it's just that the semi-weighted ones I've tried already didn't seem to have enough resistance for what I'm after.

Just out of curiosity, do you use the hammer action or semi-weighted keyboards for electric piano if you use that?

paulmapp8306 · September 2021

I used the hammer action for all piano/key based really. Piano,. EP, Clavs etc. I do layer pads and strings etc if I need a layered sound. I do use it for synth sounds as well at times - but only when I need key real estate - and try to stick to sounds that have slow attack/decay as there easier to control. Organ sounds and synths generally are played on my semi weighted synth board.

As for recommendations - I dont use controllers, I use synths/pianos as controllers (as I use them for their own sounds as well). As such Im not aware of whats particularly good or bad on controllers. Good, controllable semi weighted, affordable synth to look at would be something like the Model Argon/Cobalt 8s (the 61 key version if you want a controller). they have the bonus of transmitting separate midi on every knob so can be used as a controller in a fashion.

hessodreamy · September 2021

How about the korg sv73? Sounds decent. Although the size of 73 keys it’s heavier than my 88 key weighted board.

prowla · September 2021

I have an Oberheim MC 2000, which is very good, but also extremely heavy.

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