Synth dilemma

Bridgehouse · February 2021

Ok, so during lockdown I’ve got back into keys. It was my first instrument all those years ago, and it’s been like a comfy pair of slippers getting back into it.

Decided I wanted a do it all solution for home use and so got a Yamaha Montage 6 for DAW integration, sequencing, and all that good stuff. So far it’s been excellent - and the FM engine is pretty magical.

Having invested in a decent K&M stand I got a free upper tier thrown in (you can see where this is going) and I’d rather not keep it empty.

So, I’m looking for something a bit different to fill it - I’d like something analogue (or digital but focused on that sort of thing) - budget is up to about £600ish.

So far the Argon8 and Cobalt8 have taken my fancy - am I missing anything else that would be a good alternative? Considered the Deep Mind 6 as well. I’d prefer smaller, more compact really I think.

What sort of music? Real eclectic mix. I think if anything it’ll be used for pads and lead tones, but at the moment I’m very much in the experimenting and seeing what I like stage.

Thoughts?

Jalapeno · February 2021

Oberhiem or derivative - think Behringer are toying with an OBX clone soon

Bridgehouse · February 2021

Jalapeno said:

Oberhiem or derivative - think Behringer are toying with an OBX clone soon

UB-Xa? Still feels like vapourware at the mo tho?

goldtop · February 2021

A Hydrasynth (polyphonic aftertouch, ribbon controller, etc) plus a great sound, including wavescanning, etc:

I've dithered about getting one, but sitting above my MODX8 at the moment is a Waldorf STVC.

Bridgehouse · February 2021

goldtop said:

A Hydrasynth (polyphonic aftertouch, ribbon controller, etc) plus a great sound, including wavescanning, etc:

I've dithered about getting one, but sitting above my MODX8 at the moment is a Waldorf STVC.

Yeah, I’ve seen the Hydrasynth - it might be a bit too much out of my budget at the mo tho! It does sound fantastic tho.

Roland · February 2021

@paulmapp8306 ;

horse · February 2021

Put a shelf across it and see if you can squeeze a used DM6 for pads and a Beringer model D for leads onto it!

I picked up a modx7 last year, which was a great buy, so slightly envious of the montage :-)

Bridgehouse · February 2021

horse said:

Put a shelf across it and see if you can squeeze a used DM6 for pads and a Beringer model D for leads onto it!

I picked up a modx7 last year, which was a great buy, so slightly envious of the montage :-)

The montage was a total splurge lockdown purchase and well in excess of my talent or needs - but, you know how it is

Funnily enough I bought a K&M 18820 kit for home and it came with the second tier and a shelf... so I do actually have a shelf...... it’s 650mm wide. At the moment it’s got the laptop on it, but you can get a separate laptop holder for the 18820.

The modx7 is pretty much the same sound set as the Montage but with less audio IO on usb and less extra functionality, no?

Bridgehouse · February 2021

horse said:

Put a shelf across it and see if you can squeeze a used DM6 for pads and a Beringer model D for leads onto it!

I picked up a modx7 last year, which was a great buy, so slightly envious of the montage :-)

And the model D certainly looks interesting.. I shall investigate. Sadly @goldtop has got me looking at the hydrasynth now... grrr!

horse · February 2021

Bridgehouse said:

horse said:

Put a shelf across it and see if you can squeeze a used DM6 for pads and a Beringer model D for leads onto it!

I picked up a modx7 last year, which was a great buy, so slightly envious of the montage :-)

The montage was a total splurge lockdown purchase and well in excess of my talent or needs - but, you know how it is

Funnily enough I bought a K&M 18820 kit for home and it came with the second tier and a shelf... so I do actually have a shelf...... it’s 650mm wide. At the moment it’s got the laptop on it, but you can get a separate laptop holder for the 18820.

The modx7 is pretty much the same sound set as the Montage but with less audio IO on usb and less extra functionality, no?

Modx has half the FM polyphony, lesser DACs I think, which doesn't bother me, but the Biggie is the keybed is much lower end and no aftertouch. But the size, weight and features for the price I paid are great, and I'm setting things up so I can either gig with it standalone if I want, or paired with a weighted one if I can be bothered taking out a bigger set up.

I've got a K&M table job for home with 2 extra tiers - shelf across the top one for holding a mix of smaller stuff.

Korg minilogue is another option for pads

GavRichList · February 2021

Elektron Digitone. I had both that and the Argon8 - the Digitone definitely gets my vote. Plus, if you get in to the Elektron work flow it’s infinitely rewarding

Bridgehouse · February 2021

GavRichList said:

Elektron Digitone. I had both that and the Argon8 - the Digitone definitely gets my vote. Plus, if you get in to the Elektron work flow it’s infinitely rewarding

That’s another option to check out - thanks!

GavRichList · February 2021

Bridgehouse said:

GavRichList said:

Elektron Digitone. I had both that and the Argon8 - the Digitone definitely gets my vote. Plus, if you get in to the Elektron work flow it’s infinitely rewarding

That’s another option to check out - thanks!

Im sure @Octatonic will back me up here too

octatonic · February 2021

Digitone is a no-brainer under £1000 but it is FM and it sounds like you already have that covered.
Subtractive or some flavour of Virtual Analogue is what I would suggest.
Elektron Analogue Four is well worth considering too.

I have the ASM Hydrasynth and it is absolutely amazing but it is fucking DEEEEEEEP.

Another thing I picked up recently was a used Nord Lead A1.
It is simple to use, sounds great, has loads of voices and sounds analogue and you can actually learn how to program by using it.

So that, or another one knob per function synth.
Also check out the Polyend/Dreadbox collaboration- the Medusa.
I've been using it a lot lately, has an amazing sequencer, analogue and digital synth engines and you get some really nice textures.

Korg Wavestate is good but deep, although not as deep as the Hydra. Keybed sucks though.
Or a used Novation Peak.

Or go for some monosynths- Arturia Minibrute, Novation Bass Station II.
You could probably get 2-3 for £600.

Or an Access Virus A/B/C.
Or a Novation Supernova, or an Ultranova (I have one of these for sale).

Whatever though, buy used, cheap and buy 'off trend'.

Most people buy synths and then hardly use them because learning synthesis properly is hard and shopping around presets is eventually quite boring.
Most hardware synths end up as studio furniture until they are sold for the new shiny.
Virtually everything in my studio that wasn't review stock was bought used and off trend because people sell the 'old thing' cheap to finance the new shiny. There new shiny eventually becomes the old thing and the old old thing becomes fashionable again and the prices go up again (look at the current price of JP8000's- doubled in value in the last year).

horse · February 2021

Waldorf Blofeld is another option. Decent virtual analogue and wavetable, with very interesting mod matrix functions. FX aren't brilliant but you could run it through the montage's.

Module is cheap as chips, or keyboard version has a quality fatar keybed I believe.

goldtop · February 2021

^ I think the Blofeld Keys is the same keybed as the STVC, which is excellent.

Bridgehouse · February 2021

Thanks for the suggestions so far guys - loads to go and look at!

I've watched a load of vids on the hydrasynth, and I must admit I am getting more attracted by the idea of sound creation - the montage is great for FM creation or existing patches, and the integration/workstation stuff is really useful, but I'm thinking I should probably invest in something that widens my creative abilities right from the point of creating new sounds.

It's definitely a home recording/producing thing - once we are out of lockdown I'll be jamming/gigging again, and there is likely to be an increase in keys usage out and about, but I've got a cheap lightweight MX61 to take along for those.

octatonic · February 2021

Would you consider modular?

IMHO it is the best format for sound creation.

Bridgehouse · February 2021

octatonic said:

Would you consider modular?
IMHO it is the best format for sound creation.

Yes and no I think. (lol)

At the moment, I'm probably trying to fill a number of criteria which means I'm not going to get the best of any.
I'd really like another keybed, and I'm trying to keep it relatively simple as well. For the moment, I'm probably focused on an all in one of some description - going modular for something else may well happen at some point, but I'm not sure it's right for me at the moment.

Having said that, I'm about to upgrade the MacBook Pro and so there's a whole world of VST's to explore as well.. I suspect that might be the start of a more modular route...

Gah! Too many choices!

Funkfingers · February 2021

Roland Juno 106 or near equivalent.

GavRichList · February 2021

Funkfingers said:

Roland Juno 106 or near equivalent.

Find me a Juno 106 for £600 and I’ll snap your hand off

Bridgehouse · February 2021

More research required.

Been checking out the options suggested so far in this thread. Crikey. Lots of variety and some great options.

It’s a proper dilemma now - @octatonic is right - the Hydrasynth really is deeeeeeeeep - but the interface just seems so logical and easy that it just seems to appeal to the way I would work.

Need to work out if it’s worth spending twice the budget for that sort of flexibility and depth...

octatonic · February 2021

Bridgehouse said:

More research required.

Been checking out the options suggested so far in this thread. Crikey. Lots of variety and some great options.

It’s a proper dilemma now - @octatonic is right - the Hydrasynth really is deeeeeeeeep - but the interface just seems so logical and easy that it just seems to appeal to the way I would work.

Need to work out if it’s worth spending twice the budget for that sort of flexibility and depth...

You won't be unhappy.
You will be late for work each morning, and sleepy.

Highlights are the arpeggiator with ratchet and chance controls.
And the ribbon controller.
And polyphonic aftertouch- it is properly expressive.

It is absolutely the coolest, best laid out and best sounding digital synth available for sale right now.

If you have any specific questions then fire away.

Bridgehouse · February 2021

octatonic said:

Bridgehouse said:

More research required.

Been checking out the options suggested so far in this thread. Crikey. Lots of variety and some great options.

It’s a proper dilemma now - @octatonic is right - the Hydrasynth really is deeeeeeeeep - but the interface just seems so logical and easy that it just seems to appeal to the way I would work.

Need to work out if it’s worth spending twice the budget for that sort of flexibility and depth...

You won't be unhappy.
You will be late for work each morning, and sleepy.

Highlights are the arpeggiator with ratchet and chance controls.
And the ribbon controller.
And polyphonic aftertouch- it is properly expressive.

It is absolutely the coolest, best laid out and best sounding digital synth available for sale right now.

If you have any specific questions then fire away.

Thanks. I’m still looking, but I keep going back to it.

There’s no rush (obviously) - but nothing else has come along and struck me like it. Bit like the Montage - it’s a fantastic synth and I spent a lot of time looking and kept coming back to it.

paulmapp8306 · February 2021

@Bridgehouse ;;

OK - after 3 years seriously down the synth rabbit hole (as opposed to treading round the edges of said hole for decades) - and nowhere near as deep as Octatonic is....

Hydrasynth is nice for sound mangling BUT its heavily wavetable based. Its analogue esc sounds are a little cold and clinical as most VAs can be. Its an option certainly though -= as they poly After touch is a great feature not found on many. As Octatonic says, one of if the best sounding digital board around at present - but its still not quite analogue sounding to me. Ive tried it lots, and bee oh so close 2 or 3 times, but its never QUITE got me excited enough to make space for one...even the module.

Your budget rules out the DSi Rev 2, the Novation Summit and the Arturia Polybrute. All are excellent - but nearer the £2k mark.....

Modules that are nearer your price wont be of interest - as no keybed (im guessing) ruling out a used Access Virus (the Ti and C can be had for that price) and the Peak (again used though would still be a little more than your budget)

I picked up my 3rd module in January - and I will HIGHLY recommend the Behringer Deep Mind - the 12 if you can stretch (as its only limitation is a single full oscilator - though it can have both saw and pulse at the same time) - unison mode is very useful as the mod matrix can address each part separately - but it halves the polyphone. The DM12 still gives you 6 voices of unison - detuned saws if you need that sound. Its fully analogue (DCO not VCO but has drift), sounds superb. 3 envelopes with variable shapes (which a great feature), 2 LFOs, and a great mod matrix and FX section. Its a Pad monster honestly. Teh keybed on the keyboard version is great, with nice after touch. Shame it dosnt have the poly AT of hydrasynth - but. Of those two (after expensive tests of both) it take the Deep mind. HS is a sound mangling machine - but the Yam can do the FM stuff - what the yam doesnt have is a decent subtractive analogue engine (does OK with Rompler sounds but its no true synth in that regard).

Failing that - you may get a used Nord wave, or one of the older Nord leads - there decent value with lots of synth stuff going on. Id still go Deep mind personally through. Cant tell you how impressed I am with it. easily holds its own next to my Virus Ti2, Peak and even the new models on the Fantom.

The Model stuff is actually really good value for money as well. Id go Cobalt over argon - for the same reason Id go DM over HS. Its all about analogue sounding subtractive stuff - Argon is more about wavetable stuff and is colder sounding and more clinical because of it. In its own right its a great board - BUT its not analogue sounding in a real analogue way that Deep mind is - again its got a cold edge to it has hard to warm up to those levels. Its actually quite similar to the hydrasynth in its core tone - though HS is a LOT LOT deeper.

So - to sum up. Hydrasynth for sound mangling - very experimental. Cobalt for a VA that has functionality over and above a pure analogue synth but is still a little cold sounding (cheaper than HS ) , or Deep Mind (12) for a true analogue pad monster thats a little more limited in base sound capabilities but makes up for it in modulation and FX.

Check this out. Jamie (Geo Synths) is a top bloke. There are vids of his patch libraries (hes a sound designer by profession) BUT gives you an idea of its true potential. The 3 banks he has done all have their own flavour - but he goes through every one of the 300+ patches across 12 videos (34 for each pack). As I say, just shows what it can do.

https://www.geosynths.com/deepmind-12

paulmapp8306 · February 2021

GavRichList said:

Funkfingers said:

Roland Juno 106 or near equivalent.

Find me a Juno 106 for £600 and I’ll snap your hand off

Deep Mind 12.... not QUITE the same, but 95% + . Its a Juno with extras as well.

paulmapp8306 · February 2021

Right on budget - and UK source:

https://www.juno.co.uk/products/behringer-deepmind-12-keyboard-analogue-synthesizer/622579-01/?currency=GBP&flt=1&gclid=CjwKCAiAmrOBBhA0EiwArn3mfEJt6vdXy-S18Is8Fg8TfT-8xCJ3QwZRQO2fnjFcCVGhyg7lEPvNmBoCW1oQAvD_BwE

paulmapp8306 · February 2021

Oh - I have the 18820 stand as well. I have the 3rd tier..... which I no longer use (use a spider live for 3 tiers, and build some shelving over the 18820s 2 tiers for modules)...... IF you fancied even more space

a keyboard on tier 2, then a laptop and an module on tier 3 .......

Bridgehouse · February 2021

@paulmapp8306 thanks for all the comments - need some time to unpack and review!

Bridgehouse · February 2021

Quick update:

Got so bored looking at hundreds of synths.

In a moment of spontaneity, bought a Hydrasynth. Apparently it comes Friday.

horse · February 2021

Bridgehouse said:

Quick update:

Got so bored looking at hundreds of synths.

In a moment of spontaneity, bought a Hydrasynth. Apparently it comes Friday.

Good move - leaves scope to still convince yourself you need an analogue in a few months time!

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