I will never be any good at guitar ....

axisus · January 2021

TheBigDipper said: I'm sure drummers and pianists have an easier time of it if they try a Stick. They're already used to having two hands work independently.

Well, that's what I thought at first, but my piano playing didn't seen to help with the stick. It was my inability to get my hands working independently that made me give up in the end.

EricTheWeary · January 2021

chotu495 said:

phil_b said:

i am a beginner and also have problems remembering songs.

but maybe that is because I only play for myself. there is not the pressure of not making mistakes or learning songs. Maybe not being in a band is the reason you dont remember songs rather than a lack of function

I think there is a lot of truth in this.

I still love playing, despite my average abilities, however, IF i were to commit to a band and have to learn a setlist of songs, i’d do it. It is likely that I dont learn songs through, because there’s no need for me to.

Playing guitar is a massive investment in time and effort. Easy to forget until you put your guitar in the hands of a friend who can’t play.

I watched Idris Elba interview Paul McCartney recently, and Idris brought his acoustic along. Idris is clearly at the start of his journey in guitar, and it was a little awkward watching him play a chord and ask Macca if he could name it. It underlined how hard guitar is, and yet how Idris played his C chord and got happiness from doing something what more seasoned players would do instinctively.

Its a blessing and a curse

There was an article in Guitar and Bass once, something about how much music there was in an average pop song. Between verse sections, chorus pre chorus, etc ( but ignoring any fills or solos) there is only something like 17 seconds of music to learn - everything else is repetition of those sections. You have to remember the sequence but the actual amount of music to learn to play a song is quite small.

This probably doesn’t work if you are determined to start a King Crimson tribute band.

Barney · April 2021

I think iff you enjoy what you do it makes you want to practice more ...you don't get hung up on what you do and eventually get better anyways ....I think everybody needs a fair bit of the need to improve but to much and it just leafs to frustration .....it's happened to me a few times

tanihhiavlt · April 2021

Frustration! If we don't have dreams, put in the work and make sacrifices we don't earn the right to feel frustration, only regret.

Nobody "needs" to be a better guitarist, and "good enough" is who we'll be tomorrow, our brain craves progress and sees beyond the effort - but a deeper part of us wants connection to a moment - I suspect when we get to play more and woodshed less, these feelings of frustration won't dwell for as long and better memories will steer and fuel us.

TheMadMick · April 2021

Join the club brother. I'm 72 and have been playing on and off since my early 20's. I still struggle with some of the simplest things. It just takes hours and hours of practice. Just don't throw the guitar from you. It can be expensive

proggy · April 2021

axisus said:

@GuyBoden hah! not seen that video in a while. Ironically I gave up Chapman stick as I wasn't good enough at it ...

Not good enough at it!
Looked and sounded alright to me.

amj · April 2021

Playing the guitar well is like speaking a foreign language fluently - and there's no defined bench mark.

John_A · April 2021

axisus said:

or any other instrument. It's a sad realisation.

OK, some people think I am amazing at guitar/piano, but the fact is that I am missing some fundamental skills:

1) poor motor skills in terms of accuracy
2) poor memory recall

I looked at the detail in iTunes, and there is an instrumental song that I have been trying to play for years and years. The play count for the backing track is almost 2000 times, and yet I am still nowhere near getting the short widdly bit right (it's probably 6 seconds tops!). I will never have accuracy, it isn't in my mind and fingers unfortunately.

And remembering stuff. At the start of lockdown one I decided to do a simple arrangement for a piece of piano music that is less than 3 minutes long. I got it all worked out in a couple of weeks, it's just chords with some melody thrown in. 10 months on and I still can't play it through without forgetting something. It is BLOODY frustrating!

These two flaws are annoying as I clearly have some ability in other areas, but at my age (57) nothing is going to improve.

Satriani's Always with Me song, I have wrestled with for a decade. I have never got past the legato run at 1.10. I simply CANNOT remember the notes from one day to the next.

I've never played in a band, and I never could have to be honest, can't learn songs or play with accuracy for solos!

So yeah, this is just me crying into my (non-alcoholic) beer, watching people on Youtube playing difficult stuff effortlessly. Still, not giving up ...

Self-absorbed introspective rant over, my cage beckons ...

Years ago I took a few guitar lessons, first lesson we talked about what I wanted to achieve and I proudly showed the teacher this George Lynch lick I’d been working on for 4 weeks. He said ‘you could have learned 50 George Harrison licks in that time” that’s really stuck with me and 20 years later I can still do a piss poor impersonation of Mr Lynch, but can play a big part of the back catalogues of Beatles, AC-DC, Thin Lizzy etc, played in original bands and cover bands and thoroughly enjoy it.

Ditch the Satriani, and play something you can actually get your fingers around, you’ll feel a whole lot better for it

axisus · April 2021

John_A said:
Years ago I took a few guitar lessons, first lesson we talked about what I wanted to achieve and I proudly showed the teacher this George Lynch lick I’d been working on for 4 weeks. He said ‘you could have learned 50 George Harrison licks in that time” that’s really stuck with me and 20 years later I can still do a piss poor impersonation of Mr Lynch, but can play a big part of the back catalogues of Beatles, AC-DC, Thin Lizzy etc, played in original bands and cover bands and thoroughly enjoy it.

Ditch the Satriani, and play something you can actually get your fingers around, you’ll feel a whole lot better for it

I completely understand that, but the heart wants what the heart wants ....

octatonic · April 2021

axisus said:

John_A said:
Years ago I took a few guitar lessons, first lesson we talked about what I wanted to achieve and I proudly showed the teacher this George Lynch lick I’d been working on for 4 weeks. He said ‘you could have learned 50 George Harrison licks in that time” that’s really stuck with me and 20 years later I can still do a piss poor impersonation of Mr Lynch, but can play a big part of the back catalogues of Beatles, AC-DC, Thin Lizzy etc, played in original bands and cover bands and thoroughly enjoy it.

Ditch the Satriani, and play something you can actually get your fingers around, you’ll feel a whole lot better for it

I completely understand that, but the heart wants what the heart wants ....

Then do the work.

Seriously, you can't wish this to happen.
You can make it happen, but you need to be focussed and disciplined.

axisus · April 2021

octatonic said:

axisus said:

John_A said:
Years ago I took a few guitar lessons, first lesson we talked about what I wanted to achieve and I proudly showed the teacher this George Lynch lick I’d been working on for 4 weeks. He said ‘you could have learned 50 George Harrison licks in that time” that’s really stuck with me and 20 years later I can still do a piss poor impersonation of Mr Lynch, but can play a big part of the back catalogues of Beatles, AC-DC, Thin Lizzy etc, played in original bands and cover bands and thoroughly enjoy it.

Ditch the Satriani, and play something you can actually get your fingers around, you’ll feel a whole lot better for it

I completely understand that, but the heart wants what the heart wants ....

Then do the work.

Seriously, you can't wish this to happen.
You can make it happen, but you need to be focussed and disciplined.

I refer the honourable gentleman to my original post:

1) poor motor skills in terms of accuracy
2) poor memory recall

Also, as a reminder - I wasn't saying how can I learn stuff, I was moaning I will never learn stuff. It was merely me ranting and moaning. Must have had a bad day or something but I'm over it now. Yeah, I'm poor at music but ultimately who cares. On reflection I've had my best year on piano for over 30 years, I should focus on my successes not my failures ....

octatonic · April 2021

axisus said:

octatonic said:

axisus said:

John_A said:
Years ago I took a few guitar lessons, first lesson we talked about what I wanted to achieve and I proudly showed the teacher this George Lynch lick I’d been working on for 4 weeks. He said ‘you could have learned 50 George Harrison licks in that time” that’s really stuck with me and 20 years later I can still do a piss poor impersonation of Mr Lynch, but can play a big part of the back catalogues of Beatles, AC-DC, Thin Lizzy etc, played in original bands and cover bands and thoroughly enjoy it.

Ditch the Satriani, and play something you can actually get your fingers around, you’ll feel a whole lot better for it

I completely understand that, but the heart wants what the heart wants ....

Then do the work.

Seriously, you can't wish this to happen.
You can make it happen, but you need to be focussed and disciplined.

I refer the honourable gentleman to my original post:

1) poor motor skills in terms of accuracy
2) poor memory recall

Also, as a reminder - I wasn't saying how can I learn stuff, I was moaning I will never learn stuff. It was merely me ranting and moaning. Must have had a bad day or something but I'm over it now. Yeah, I'm poor at music but ultimately who cares. On reflection I've had my best year on piano for over 30 years, I should focus on my successes not my failures ....

As you wish.

However, I have made several offers over the years, one not too long ago IIRC, to give you a practice routine that is doable, not going to take over your life and will transform your playing, but only if you do the work.

I've had a few conversations with students over the years of this sort.
The ones who succeed are the ones who make it their focus and don't allow where they are now to define where they want to go.

1) and 2) can both be fixed, if you want.

LastMantra · April 2021

For me getting better is a byproduct of enjoying playing.

axisus · April 2021

octatonic said:

However, I have made several offers over the years, one not too long ago IIRC, to give you a practice routine that is doable, not going to take over your life and will transform your playing, but only if you do the work.

Yes, I have noted that at times, most kind of you to offer. I did almost do you a video of my terrible vibrato after your suggestion, but I bottled it in the end!

Chris_Bradley · April 2021

LastMantra said:

For me getting better is a byproduct of enjoying playing.

Exactly this. When getting frustrated learning complicated stuff sometimes it's better to just stick on some acdc or similar, turn up the amp and just rock out to remember guitar is fun.

Another thing is, many of the elite players are elite at a particular style or their "Licks" that they have perfected over years and they came up with those because they just felt natural to them under the fingers. We then try learning songs from a large selection of these guys and wonder why we can never get them perfect and give up.

octatonic · April 2021

axisus said:

octatonic said:

However, I have made several offers over the years, one not too long ago IIRC, to give you a practice routine that is doable, not going to take over your life and will transform your playing, but only if you do the work.

Yes, I have noted that at times, most kind of you to offer. I did almost do you a video of my terrible vibrato after your suggestion, but I bottled it in the end!

The offer is always there.

John_A · April 2021

axisus said:
I completely understand that, but the heart wants what the heart wants ....

Satriani started out on easy stuff

allen · May 2021

I hear you.

I've spent years on the riff from scuttle buttin. I've recently got to 90% of the speed of the original.

tone1 · May 2021

It’s a standing in joke in my household. I’ve been ‘plinky plonking’ for 35 years and can barely play anything even remotely musical....but I saw a post recently on here that mentioned playing as a means of mindfulness, and I thought yep that’s me in a nutshell.....I’m currently having a bash at the Black Keys Lonely boy...few chords, bit of a cool intro, bit of fuzz, happy days.

I can’t believe how little I’ve progressed in 35 years of playing when I see kids on YouTube tearing it up....I sometimes think of jacking it all in, but then I think ‘it’s not a competition after all’

pintspiller · May 2021

When I started I thought I was.time deaf. I didn't buy a time for nearly a year after buying the guitar and amp I started with.

My expectations were low. No trying to emulate a virtuoso for me. I've been playing for 30+ years and still learning. I'm far better than I thought I'd ever be, but I've written songs and gigged in bands doing originals and covers in venues small and larger than small.

viz · May 2021

axisus said:

John_A said:
Years ago I took a few guitar lessons, first lesson we talked about what I wanted to achieve and I proudly showed the teacher this George Lynch lick I’d been working on for 4 weeks. He said ‘you could have learned 50 George Harrison licks in that time” that’s really stuck with me and 20 years later I can still do a piss poor impersonation of Mr Lynch, but can play a big part of the back catalogues of Beatles, AC-DC, Thin Lizzy etc, played in original bands and cover bands and thoroughly enjoy it.

Ditch the Satriani, and play something you can actually get your fingers around, you’ll feel a whole lot better for it

I completely understand that, but the heart wants what the heart wants ....

I like that too, I think he makes a really good point. Yet I totally disagree with it, for me anyway; I think it’s because I don’t want to learn songs - I can already play 50 George Harrison songs, I can guarantee it, even though I’ve never heard a single one of them! I know how conceited that sounds but it’s true, and learning a George Harrison song is simply not on my development path. I want to be able to play like Steve Vai or Greg Howe, so that’s what I’ll work on. (Well I would do if I had any oomph left in me). I still agree with what he said though, just not relevant for me.

HWM · May 2021

I doubt any musician can play everything on their instrument of choice. Music can be seen as some as a competition ( play fastest etc), an intellectual exercise (playing involves really obscure beats, chord progressions and scale variations), and a means of promoting an emotional response ( I remember the exactment I felt as a kid hearing the riff for Whole Lot Of Love by Zep for the first time).

I know a lot of others who play as I do, for enjoyment of playing. My personal method is to concentrate solely on technique without any effects on a regular basis ( one hour a day) to improve my possible range of options and the rest of the time have fun. I am not bothered about playing other peoples stuff the way they played it, what's the point, its already been done and I am not looking to join a cover band (or any other band). Over the years I played with a lot of like minded folk. At the moment when we get together (2 guitars and a drummer, sometimes a bass player as well) we can come up with something in 20 minutes that we go on to play around with for as long as we want. Maybe start with some blues (comfort zone) and then "Hey let's try to do some Regge for a laugh", them punk, then heavy rock, maybe a ballad, a bit of country and so on. And we do have a laugh. Sometimes I surprise myself with what I come up with and that is where the satisfaction lies for me.

One thing I have taken on board though is that trying hard is disastrous for me, I get tense, my fingers slow down and I am thinking about what I am going to do next before I get there and just end up making noised I don't want to listen to. For me the secret is concentration. The more I listen to what I am playing and think about the left/right hand coordination and the force I am using with both hands I find the more my brain is able to understand exactly what I actually am doing, not what I think I am doing (if that makes any sense). Its all about concentration building new neural pathways just like learning to drive or any other skill. If you concentrate the pathways get built, if you don't concentrate they won't develop or if they do they will develop in an uncontrolled way (the bad habit scenario)

One thing that really made me think was the purchase of a Yamaha Revstar with jumbo frets. Switching to this after playing a Mexico Strat for years was eye opening. The way I play has changed a lot as It more or less demanded I start concentrating on playing with a light touch. With jumbo frets if you don't play with a light touch you will be playing out of tune. I think that trying a guitar with jumbo frets is the most significant thing I have done since the purchase of my first guitar. If you haven't tried it give it a go. You never know what might happen.

HWM · May 2021

If you are determined to break through on a complex piece some thoughts about how approach and practice complex pieces is included here:

https://repository.up.ac.za/bitstream/handle/2263/32394/Wallick_Piano_2013.pdf?sequence=1

It is all about piano but the suggestions can be applied to guitar. It is a bit of a last resort really as it is not an easy read and there are no set instructions. However, it might give a new viewpoint on practicing a complex piece that might help someone.

maw4neu · May 2021

I've been shite for years but I still love to play guitar . . . :-) . . . Plus your picking complex tunes performed by a feckin genius guitar player . . That's self torture . . .

WiresDreamDisasters · May 2021

There's something underlying this thread that is pissing me off a bit.

It's lack of self belief and defeatism.

I always struggled to do downstroke palm mutes above 150bpm. It's why most TNBD material is around the 100-130bpm mark. Coz that's where I felt comfortable. All of the faster stuff, I play alternate picking so I can get the speed I need.

And I just kept telling myself I'd get it one day. Anyway, lately I've been practicing little bits. Literally, every time I pickup the guitar I just do a few minutes of practice with downstroke palm mutes. As well as getting some cool riffs out of it, I've also become more comfortable with the technique, and I'm now in that 160bpm range, and I feel comfortable. I wanna extend this to 170bpm and 180bpm too.

You just need to setup a strategy and follow it. There is no one size fits all strategy, you have to figure it out for yourself. But at least have one. Otherwise you're doomed to be whinging on a guitar forum about how you'll never do xyz blahblahblahblahblah.

OP has no strategy. That's the problem here.

mendy · May 2021

octatonic · May 2021

WiresDreamDisasters said:

There's something underlying this thread that is pissing me off a bit.

It's lack of self belief and defeatism.

I always struggled to do downstroke palm mutes above 150bpm. It's why most TNBD material is around the 100-130bpm mark. Coz that's where I felt comfortable. All of the faster stuff, I play alternate picking so I can get the speed I need.

And I just kept telling myself I'd get it one day. Anyway, lately I've been practicing little bits. Literally, every time I pickup the guitar I just do a few minutes of practice with downstroke palm mutes. As well as getting some cool riffs out of it, I've also become more comfortable with the technique, and I'm now in that 160bpm range, and I feel comfortable. I wanna extend this to 170bpm and 180bpm too.

You just need to setup a strategy and follow it. There is no one size fits all strategy, you have to figure it out for yourself. But at least have one. Otherwise you're doomed to be whinging on a guitar forum about how you'll never do xyz blahblahblahblahblah.

OP has no strategy. That's the problem here.

And refuses help when offered.

digitalscream · May 2021

WiresDreamDisasters said:

There's something underlying this thread that is pissing me off a bit.

It's lack of self belief and defeatism.

I always struggled to do downstroke palm mutes above 150bpm. It's why most TNBD material is around the 100-130bpm mark. Coz that's where I felt comfortable. All of the faster stuff, I play alternate picking so I can get the speed I need.

And I just kept telling myself I'd get it one day. Anyway, lately I've been practicing little bits. Literally, every time I pickup the guitar I just do a few minutes of practice with downstroke palm mutes. As well as getting some cool riffs out of it, I've also become more comfortable with the technique, and I'm now in that 160bpm range, and I feel comfortable. I wanna extend this to 170bpm and 180bpm too.

You just need to setup a strategy and follow it. There is no one size fits all strategy, you have to figure it out for yourself. But at least have one. Otherwise you're doomed to be whinging on a guitar forum about how you'll never do xyz blahblahblahblahblah.

OP has no strategy. That's the problem here.

Yeah, pretty much this.

One of my bands isn't really challenging in terms of playing at all, but the other one - in which I wrote over half the songs and most of the guitar parts - is really difficult, because I deliberately set out to improve my playing. So, instead of just doing the rock-noodling thing, every song I picked at least one thing that I wasn't very good at and wrote it such that if I couldn't play those things...it'd sound like ass. I didn't give it to the rest of the band until I could convincingly pull it off, and I had a deadline for getting it all recorded and gig-ready.

Tapping, legato, fast picking, even a bit of sweeping...it's all there, in the rhythm and the solos; my playing has never improved as quickly and reliably as it did during that period.

The trick, I think, is to have an actual point to it. I wasn't just learning techniques for the sake of it, I was learning them because I'd written something that I had no choice but to be able to play.

McSwaggerty · May 2021

Everyone sets their own standards, whether the goal is to play like Joe Satriani or Keith Richards.
I saw a Bloke in a local pub playing Rocking all over the World by Status Quo. He was using backing tracks and he was on his knees on the middle of the dance floor giving it laldy.
He thought he was brilliant.

axisus · May 2021

WiresDreamDisasters said:

OP has no strategy. That's the problem here.

octatonic said:

And refuses help when offered.

You are both right! Bear in mind though that my original post was not a cry for help, it was just a 'pitiful rant' (my own words later in the thread. Yes, any player who has a strategy and accepts help will improve, but some of us have more deep rooted motivational issues that aren't so easy to change.

At the end of the day I have a very busy life and a seeming inability to organise my spare time effectively. That is the crux of the matter for me.

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I will never be any good at guitar ....

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