Climate control display cases

mdfire · December 2020

Just had a nasty experience with a new custom made guitar which cracked due to the climate in the room i keep it in. It can be fixed but i want to prevent it happening again. There are loads of acoustic guitar display cases online but they all seem to be US based. Anyone aware of UK based providers (or European)?

Kittyfrisk · December 2020

Sorry to hear about your experience, but I believe that is a pretty rare occurrence in the UK.
How do you know that the room climate is the actual cause?
If you haven't already, I would get an accurate humidity meter and find out what the actual environmental conditions are.
If there is too little humidity (as it sounds like) then get a humidifier, too much humidity get a dehumidifier.
Are there wide temperature fluctuations in the room where the guitar is kept? That could cause issues too, in combination with the humidity levels.

mdfire · December 2020

Hi thanks for the reply. It definitely was climatic conditions. There was fret sprout but more seriously two cracks occurred on the back. Its kept in a garden room that i also use for my office. I could move the guitars back into the house but I like having them on display beside me. The room is very well insulated but only has a wall panel heater which pumps out warm air. Its also a bit all or nothing and it gets too hot or its a bit nippy. I've ordered a humidity meter to see what the levels in the room are. Im also in the north of Ireland so even rarer!

Kittyfrisk · December 2020

" Its also a bit all or nothing and it gets too hot or its a bit nippy"
I don't think you need to look for another reason, as widely varying temperatures, probably in a short space of time, will do what you describe alright.
I'd be keeping them in the house & taking them out as & when you want to play them in the office, then take them indoors again.

mdfire · December 2020

Ive also ordered another heater to replace this one, which is easier to control (via app) and has a digital interface and thermostat. That and the meter and at least i will know whats what.

ToneControl · December 2020

it's probably easier to correctly humidify a room in a house in the UK than to get a special cabinet
All you need is a hygrostat and a humidifier

A garden room is a harder problem though, temperature will vary massively, and humidity too
Basically, on a cold dry day, when you heat up the room, the relative humidity of the air coming from outside drops massively in the room.

If it's 50% RH and 0C outside, at 22C inside RH will be 12.7%
Relative humidity calculator (lenntech.com)

In a house, washing, cooking, bathing, living/breathing will mitigate this somewhat, far less so in an external garden room

Do you have any idea of the min/max temperatures in the room?

btw I would not store any guitars in a garden room, even in their cases, unless it was heated every day, well insulated, humidified, and protected from temperatures over 30C in the summer

dangriffiths · December 2020

Agree - I just wouldn't do it at all. Keep them in the house.

mdfire · December 2020

Thanks guys. The garden room is well insulated. I work in it daily and use it as an office/man cave. its a bit more than a "garden room" its pretty substantial. I got a hyrometer yesterday. I let it sit over night with the heat on constant but low. Min temp was 18.1oC and highest 21.5. Lowest RH was 41% and highest 47%. Its pretty mild at the minute though and the hyrometer is not calibrated. I am calibrating it at the minute using the cup of salt water in a sealed bag method. Im also replacing the heater in the room with one control by an app which maintains room temp. The current heater's thermostat only switches off when the heater itself gets too hot. If I cant control conditions i will take my acoustics back inside though i do like them here as im more inclined to reach for it at time during the day.

ToneControl · December 2020

mdfire said:

Thanks guys. The garden room is well insulated. I work in it daily and use it as an office/man cave. its a bit more than a "garden room" its pretty substantial. I got a hyrometer yesterday. I let it sit over night with the heat on constant but low. Min temp was 18.1oC and highest 21.5. Lowest RH was 41% and highest 47%. Its pretty mild at the minute though and the hyrometer is not calibrated. I am calibrating it at the minute using the cup of salt water in a sealed bag method. Im also replacing the heater in the room with one control by an app which maintains room temp. The current heater's thermostat only switches off when the heater itself gets too hot. If I cant control conditions i will take my acoustics back inside though i do like them here as im more inclined to reach for it at time during the day.

were you doing anything different when the guitar cracked?

did it stay there on hot days, or did you stay away from it for a few days ?
I'm guessing you need to make a decision whether to heat and humidify it all the time.

From experience, I'd say when it's frosty outside, you'll get down to 25% RH or below

mdfire · December 2020

I had the heater on a timer. Coming on for a few hours in the morning and same in evening. it was very hard to keep it constantly comfortable. either too hot or too cold. The heater is a very crude solution. I was constantly turning it on and off, up and down while worked. Since yesterday its on constant and low and room temp is hovering around 20-21.5oC. I think extreme temperature changes might have been the problem though the luthier still reckons humidity is a problem.

ToneControl · December 2020

mdfire said:

I had the heater on a timer. Coming on for a few hours in the morning and same in evening. it was very hard to keep it constantly comfortable. either too hot or too cold. The heater is a very crude solution. I was constantly turning it on and off, up and down while worked. Since yesterday its on constant and low and room temp is hovering around 20-21.5oC. I think extreme temperature changes might have been the problem though the luthier still reckons humidity is a problem.

yes, humidity makes more difference: the wood swells when humid or shrinks when dry: hence the sprouting

mdfire · December 2020

Ive ordered a room humidfier from Amazon so hopefully that will help

ToneControl · December 2020

mdfire said:

Ive ordered a room humidfier from Amazon so hopefully that will help

which kind?

I'd avoid the ultrasonics, they get pink mould in them

I use a hygrostat mains socket attachment with a heater-based humidifier that is "dumb" and just switches on when the mains is supplied

mdfire · December 2020

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07BRHDVBD/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Eppi · December 2020

You should be fine with that. Just follow the instructions, be meticulous about cleaning it regularly and use distilled water only.

Kittyfrisk · December 2020

ToneControl said:

mdfire said:

Ive ordered a room humidfier from Amazon so hopefully that will help

which kind?

I'd avoid the ultrasonics, they get pink mould in them

I use a hygrostat mains socket attachment with a heater-based humidifier that is "dumb" and just switches on when the mains is supplied

I used an ultrasonic type at work for years without any such issues. Regular cleaning is the key, but really the same applies to any evaporative humidifier to avoid mineral & mould or bacterial build ups . As ever, YMMV.

mdfire · December 2020

lol sorry but what is YMMV?

ToneControl · December 2020

mdfire said:

lol sorry but what is YMMV?

your mileage may vary, US phrase - i.e. different for everyone

Ultrasonic is OK, but you really need to full clean the bacteria and mould off very often

Heat-based ones just get scale like kettles, I prefer that, can clean every few months with some citric acid powder

For me, Ultrasonic ones are an issue with kid's bedrooms when the parents don't understand the cleaning requirements, especially if the humidity is needed because of a lung problem, personally I think heat-based vapour is more foolproof

I used to have silent swiss-made ones that were like a bowl of water that never reached boiling point, but there was some design flaw, so they refunded everyone and stopped making them - those would be my ideal solution

Kittyfrisk · December 2020

mdfire said:

lol sorry but what is YMMV?

No, I should apologise, my propagation of acronyms.

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