Best acoustic pickup

lincolnblue · November 2020

In my current search for a new acoustic I think I'm limiting myself by only looking at acoustics that have a built-in pickup.

So one option is to look for a standard acoustic and then fit a pickup.

For such a job, what would you say is the best pickup for an acoustic balancing cost and sound.

ICBM · November 2020

Most natural sound - least difficult/invasive to fit other than a soundhole pickup - easiest to amplify - not the cheapest but not as expensive as a full preamp system...

K&K Pure Mini

But you need to check whether it's compatible first - it's glued onto the inside of the bridgeplate, and there are a few it won't fit due to the plate being too small or other issues.

There also now a fair number of decent-sounding soundhole pickups, which are even easier to fit, but some people don't like the look of them in the guitar. The really good ones aren't that cheap either.

thomasw88 · November 2020

LR Baggs M1a or the M80.

They don't feedback, sound great and they're awesome.

ICBM · November 2020

thomasw88 said:

LR Baggs M1a or the M80.

They don't feedback

Actually they do - or at least much more than the Fishman Rare Earths do.

I suppose I shouldn't really use distortion with them though

.

I think the Baggs ones do sound more natural.

lincolnblue · November 2020

ICBM said:

Most natural sound - least difficult/invasive to fit other than a soundhole pickup - easiest to amplify - not the cheapest but not as expensive as a full preamp system...

K&K Pure Mini

But you need to check whether it's compatible first - it's glued onto the inside of the bridgeplate, and there are a few it won't fit due to the plate being too small or other issues.

There also now a fair number of decent-sounding soundhole pickups, which are even easier to fit, but some people don't like the look of them in the guitar. The really good ones aren't that cheap either.

Thanks. I hadn't thought about compatability. I'll wait and see what guitar I come up with and go from there

RickLucas · November 2020

For me, Fishman Rare Earth blend. You get a soundhole pickup and a condenser mic. You can blend the signals and route them separately. Pricey but flexible and sounds great.

RickLucas · November 2020

I have had good results with an LR Baggs Lyric too.

TheMadMick · November 2020

Came across this after I'd chosen mine:

If your guitar is rigidly braced e.g. Guild, the LR Baggs type of pick up is preferred.

If your guitar top moves more freely, e.g. Martin then K&K is preferred.

Also depends on your expectations and amplification.

dtr · November 2020

I've got a K&K Pure Mini. One thing about them - you have to be careful of the input impedance of what you plug it into. A lot of acoustic preamps are made for USTs or Piezos and have high impedance values that make the K&K muddy and boomy in the bass. K&K recommend 500K to 1M input inductance. The nice thing about that is it matches the Boss GE-7 perfectly - the two together makes for a great pickup/preamp solution with great eq shaping (and inexpensive too!).

Redlester · November 2020

thomasw88 said:

LR Baggs M1a or the M80.

They don't feedback, sound great and they're awesome.

I know the Baggs have a good rep.

They are a very similar design/ concept to the old Takamine Triax pickup. If a Baggs is out of budget, you might be able to pick up a Triax used at a lower price.

Trude · November 2020

I’ve never heard a better plugged-in acoustic sound than my K&K Pure Minis running through an Audiosprockets Tone Dexter.

jaymenon · November 2020

Any piezo device (under saddle or K&K type under bridge plate) has the ‘quack’ factor - sounds great when you play finger style but starts to quack when you strum hard. (To my ears that sounds like a nylon string guitar through an overdrive pedal). In conjunction with a Fishman Aura however, you can get a decent sound.

After noticing that some recordings just using the microphone on my iPhone sounded rather nice, I was taken by the information leaflet about the Irig Acoustic - and indeed if you’re looking for a mono sound, it does a pretty decent job. Feedback may be an issue with loud volumes...

The LR Baggs Anthem is a good device, combining an under bridge plate microphone with a piezo UST.

Soundhole magnetic pickups in conjunction with a microphone can sound lovely to. The microphone compensates for the slightly metallic sound of the pick up. And you don’t have the piezo quack factor.

if you want stereo, the simplest thing is to use an X-Y coincident cardioid condenser microphone like the Ride NT4. There are however many significantly cheaper microphones which do a really decent job. Zoom makes an X-Y cardioid with a lightning connector that plugs into the iPhone...

https://www.dv247.com/en_GB/GBP/Zoom-iQ6-XY-Stereo-Mikrofon-for-iOS-Lightning-Port/art-REC0011606-000

Gandalph · December 2020

I’ve found this quite helpful as a place
to start from:

https://youtu.be/OAFQeS6ECyc

Currently trying to decide between an Lr Baggs m1a/m80 and the schatten hfn.

Lestratcaster · December 2020

Following with interest, got a Tanglewood acoustic I'd like to use for live streams, recording, etc. Do mostly strumming/chord stuff and want something nice and warm, natural unplugged.

Heard good things about the LR Baggs M1 too.

BahHumbug · December 2020

+1 for K&K pure mini.......
......although the installation isn’t for the faint hearted, so it’d be a good idea to understand what’s involved and whether you’re willing to DIY, or pay someone to do it.

smigeon · December 2020

BahHumbug said:

+1 for K&K pure mini.......
......although the installation isn’t for the faint hearted, so it’d be a good idea to understand what’s involved and whether you’re willing to DIY, or pay someone to do it.

+1 for the +1. They are great, but to install one of these successfully you really do need to understand the instructions thoroughly, and be very slow and systematic about it. I was quite pleased with myself when I did mine - cos I'm usually a bit of an impatient bodger - but fortunately it turned out very well. I suspect that if I can do it, almost anyone could, given sufficient care.

As was said above, they sound different depending on the impedance of whatever you plug them into. I plug mine into an Orchid Electronics DI, which supplies the "right" impedance load (approx. 1 Mohms), and that combination really does sound good.

(I've not tried mine into a Boss GE-7 but the comments above about them being a good match are intriguing - what with getting the EQ and impedance matching in the same box.)

Santona1937 · December 2020

Trance Audio Amulet M. Not cheap by any stretch of the imagination but just a stunning piece of kit, sounds just like an unplugged acoustic

thomasw88 · December 2020

Redlester said:

thomasw88 said:

LR Baggs M1a or the M80.

They don't feedback, sound great and they're awesome.

I know the Baggs have a good rep.

They are a very similar design/ concept to the old Takamine Triax pickup. If a Baggs is out of budget, you might be able to pick up a Triax used at a lower price.

Absolutely - I have a triax in one guitar and it was identical to the M1a (which I also had and promptly sold..)

lincolnblue · December 2020

I just got a Taylor acoustic with their Expression System 2. Very impressed with it - much more realistic than normal piezos

Lestratcaster · December 2020

Can anyone offer an insight on the differences between the LR Baggs M1 Active and the Anthem?

(Apologies for hi-jacking the thread).

Funkfingers · December 2020

Different technologies. Magnetic soundhole pickup with fancy noise-rejection circuitry versus undersaddle piezo transducer and microphone combination.

I used to have an Anthem SL system but was frustrated by its over-simplified mixing system. I would have been better served by the proper balance control of the full-on Anthem. That way, I could have selected 100% mic.

I use the Baggs Lyric.

Trude · December 2020

Seriously - the Tonedexter seems able to make any shitty pickup sound great (except for magnetics). I have a mandolin with a ribbon pickup that has always sounded scratchy and thin. Could’ve gone down the rabbit hole of upgrading the pickup, but through the Tonedexter it sounds like I’m playing through a mic. Basically you plug a mic and your pickup into it and it analyses the difference, then applying the correction in reverse when you use the pickup from then onwards.

Factor in my four K&K acoustics, mandolin, dobro and banjo and for me at least it makes a lot of sense to spend the money on the preamp rather than individual pickup upgrades.

p90fool · December 2020

I agree @Trude , I've just gone back to undersaddle piezos direct to the jack, then sort it out with outboard.
You don't need to spend a fortune these days either.

I can use pretty much anything except magnetic pickups, as no matter how sophisticated they sound they always have the feel of a clean electric guitar to me.

Stuckfast · December 2020

lincolnblue said:

I just got a Taylor acoustic with their Expression System 2. Very impressed with it - much more realistic than normal piezos

I've heard these and thought they sounded great, but IME they have problems with noise. If there's anything around that can cause hum or buzz the Expression System will pick it up.

Colms2005 · December 2020

Check out Trance audio amulet. Pain in the ass to fit but unrivalled reproduction.

Santona1937 · December 2020

Colms2005 said:

Check out Trance audio amulet. Pain in the ass to fit but unrivalled reproduction.

I have one in a J45.... you are right, there is nothing else like it, amped it sounds just the same as unamped, and very very minor EQ work needed, if any. A stunning piece of kit

Lestratcaster · December 2020

Funkfingers said:

Different technologies. Magnetic soundhole pickup with fancy noise-rejection circuitry versus undersaddle piezo transducer and microphone combination.

I used to have an Anthem SL system but was frustrated by its over-simplified mixing system. I would have been better served by the proper balance control of the full-on Anthem. That way, I could have selected 100% mic.

I use the Baggs Lyric.

Hmm I like the easy installation of the M1 Active, but the sound of the Anthem is nice, but fiddly to install?

Is a Piezo a natural sound? Whereas magnet is that clicky metal thinner sound?

ICBM · December 2020

Lestratcaster said:

Is a Piezo a natural sound? Whereas magnet is that clicky metal thinner sound?

Neither of them are natural, they're equally wrong but in different ways. The reason piezos have become more accepted for acoustics is because they sound less obviously like an electric guitar.

The problem with piezo undersaddle transducers is that they don't produce the correct phase signal - an acoustic guitar top generates the peak of its audio waveform when the string is moving the bridge the fastest, in the middle of its travel. A piezo pickup generates its peak when the string is producing the most (or least) pressure on the saddle, which is at the ends of its travel - this is also why it produces an exaggerated transient 'spikiness' which is very characteristic of USTs, because the pick attack produces very high saddle pressure.

The problem with a magnetic is that it picks up the wrong part of the string vibration - in the middle, rather than at the end where the sound is transferred to the body on an acoustic. That means that the harmonic mix is very different, and it also varies depending on where on the fingerboard you're playing. Soundhole pickups tend to be about at the midpoint of the string when you're playing at around the 12th fret, so they sound worst there. But in fact, a magnetic pickup does produce the peak signal when the string is moving fastest, so is correct in that respect.

A body sensor, even if it's a piezo type (like the K&K) produces the correct harmonic balance, phase and transient response, at least in theory - Taylor also did that with the first version of the Expression System, using body-mounted magnetic inertia sensors.

Mixing a magnetic and a piezo UST can also produce good results, since they each have some right and some wrong characteristics and they tend to cancel each other out to some extent.

But nothing ever sounds as natural as just sticking a mic in front of the guitar... even internal mics don't.

jaymenon · December 2020

I realised a long time ago that in a live context no one (least of all myself) can tell the difference between an Adirondack or Engelman or Sitka spruce top and indeed rosewood or mahogany back and sides...

The objective (at least to my mind) is to get a loud and clear sound that approximates the sound of an acoustic guitar - and equally importantly is not prone to feedback.

In my experience I have found that the best sound I ever achieved was interestingly from this instrument:
https://i.imgur.com/ekZZulT.jpg

The only problem is that people don't realise it's an acoustic guitar and they ask you to play classic rock songs :-(

Then I installed an LR Baggs Anthem in this instrument which also sounds lovely. One bonus is the fact that I've managed to create a 'phantom power' system where 9v DC is supplied to the preamp via a TRS cable. No sound hole - doesn't feed back...

https://i.imgur.com/D5Kx3Er.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/VWKR5b4.jpg

IMO there comes a point after which it’s simpler and far more productive to concentrate on playing and getting the best possible sound from the guitar. Like electric guitarists who play the amp, not just the guitar - I think it's important even as an acoustic guitarist to play the whole system, not just the guitar.

For finger-picking - piezo USTs sound just fine.

Add a (internal or external) microphone or an Aura (or whatever outboard processor you like) and you can sound pretty decent even while strumming.

Just my 2c.

Rant over...

Lestratcaster · December 2020

ICBM said:

Lestratcaster said:

Is a Piezo a natural sound? Whereas magnet is that clicky metal thinner sound?

Neither of them are natural, they're equally wrong but in different ways. The reason piezos have become more accepted for acoustics is because they sound less obviously like an electric guitar.

The problem with piezo undersaddle transducers is that they don't produce the correct phase signal - an acoustic guitar top generates the peak of its audio waveform when the string is moving the bridge the fastest, in the middle of its travel. A piezo pickup generates its peak when the string is producing the most (or least) pressure on the saddle, which is at the ends of its travel - this is also why it produces an exaggerated transient 'spikiness' which is very characteristic of USTs, because the pick attack produces very high saddle pressure.

The problem with a magnetic is that it picks up the wrong part of the string vibration - in the middle, rather than at the end where the sound is transferred to the body on an acoustic. That means that the harmonic mix is very different, and it also varies depending on where on the fingerboard you're playing. Soundhole pickups tend to be about at the midpoint of the string when you're playing at around the 12th fret, so they sound worst there. But in fact, a magnetic pickup does produce the peak signal when the string is moving fastest, so is correct in that respect.

A body sensor, even if it's a piezo type (like the K&K) produces the correct harmonic balance, phase and transient response, at least in theory - Taylor also did that with the first version of the Expression System, using body-mounted magnetic inertia sensors.

Mixing a magnetic and a piezo UST can also produce good results, since they each have some right and some wrong characteristics and they tend to cancel each other out to some extent.

But nothing ever sounds as natural as just sticking a mic in front of the guitar... even internal mics don't.

Hmm interesting, of course nothing will sound as good as an actual mic in front of the soundhole, I think what I'm deciding is whether to spend the money on an LR Baggs pickup or a fancy mic like a Neumann or AKG etc. I would like the flexibility to move the pickup between guitars so I fancy using a particular one on that day I can do it quickly and easily.

The Anthem one looks like it is installed inside the guitar whereas the M1 can be screwed over the soundhole. If I'm correct does the Anthem (or perhaps both) have a blend control thing so you use the mic effect?

jaymenon · December 2020

The Anthem has a UST (the Element) and an under bridge microphone (the latter being similar to the Lyric).

The Lyric (under-bridge mic on its own) - I didn't like at all.

With the Anthem - the microphone handles only eye higher frequency sounds.

Off the top of my head, everything below 250Hz is handled by the Element UST.

The net result is rather nice sounding, even for someone as OCD as me.

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Best acoustic pickup

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