Gibson Cascade LC 1

JerkMoans · November 2020

I, er *may* have become slightly carried away on eBay whilst deciding I needed an acoustic in my sad and empty life, and sprung for this, this afternoon. Grainy, out of focus shots not showing top of headstock and all the rest of it, but it looks in theory, like a decent little package and I'm covered by PayPal if it all goes tits.

Anyone got any experience of these things? Not too much info out there - seems a limited/niche thing they knocked out...

Kittyfrisk · November 2020

It seems that you can resist everything... except temptation

It looks from the colour that it might be the cedar topped version, which I would think should have a more mellow tone than an all maple type. It could be a very nice guitar that is a bit different from the usual run of the mill stuff.

I'll look forward to seeing how you describe it in the classifieds in a fortnight

JerkMoans · November 2020

Kittyfrisk said:

It seems that you can resist everything... except temptation

It looks from the colour that it might be the cedar topped version, which I would think should have a more mellow tone than an all maple type. It could be a very nice guitar that is a bit different from the usual run of the mill stuff.

I'll look forward to seeing how you describe it in the classifieds in a fortnight

Harsh, but fair. Blame boozy lockdown Sunday lunch

Andy79 · November 2020

I am also clueless on them but Cedar and Maple will surely make for an interesting combination.
Sure looks purdy

Tadragh1 · November 2020

I heard good things. And they weren't too expensive, I believe.

ICBM · November 2020

Interesting, I’ve never seen one of those before.

I’m not a fan of cedar tops usually, but maple is my favourite body wood and neck wood... I wonder how that combination will sound? Don’t think I’ve ever come across it on any other guitar, of any make.

earwighoney · November 2020

ICBM said:

Interesting, I’ve never seen one of those before.

I’m not a fan of cedar tops usually, but maple is my favourite body wood and neck wood... I wonder how that combination will sound? Don’t think I’ve ever come across it on any other guitar, of any make.

Any particular reason for that ICBM? What difference does a maple neck make for an acoustic guitar in comparison for a mahogany one? Of course, it's impossible to generalize but is one more or less stable than the other?

I've never owned an acoustic guitar with a cedar soundboard, I have a flamenco guitar with a cedar soundboard which I absolutely love.

ICBM · November 2020

earwighoney said:

Any particular reason for that ICBM?

I find cedar too 'soft' sounding for steel-string guitars - I prefer the punch of spruce. Cedar sounds better for a nylon-string to me though, I find spruce classicals too 'plinky'.

earwighoney said:

What difference does a maple neck make for an acoustic guitar in comparison for a mahogany one? Of course, it's impossible to generalize but is one more or less stable than the other?

Tighter, more ringing sound - it is also stronger and more stable too.

I actually wonder if the softer cedar and tighter maple might counteract each other.

Andy79 · November 2020

Hopefully @ToneControl will be along in a bit for a fight over Cedar tops
I wholeheartedly agree about maple bodies, tight snappy base makes for an excellent wood. Looks the parts too

Kittyfrisk · November 2020

And yet George Lowden does cedar topped steel strings, that sound gorgeous.

ICBM · November 2020

Kittyfrisk said:

And yet George Lowden does cedar topped steel strings, that sound gorgeous.

I owned one for a couple of years - an early O10. Beautifully made, but I really could not get on with the sound of it at all. Stupidly, I sold my wonderful old J-45 when I needed some money because it was too fragile to fit a pickup and gig with, and the Lowden had a pickup system so I was using it with my band.

I disliked the sound of it so much that when I bought a cheap Hondo Everly Brothers copy, I fitted it with a pickup and sold the Lowden because the Hondo was just better - for me. What I should have done in the first place was sold the Lowden, bought a cheap guitar to use with the band and kept the Gibson.

That may be partly why I've had a thing against cedar-topped acoustic guitars ever since

.

Kittyfrisk · November 2020

Yes, that'll be an experience to certainly stay with you

My late friend had a Cedar topped Lowden with the body in walnut & an ebony fretboard that was an utterly fantastic sounding thing, despite being made of the 'wrong' tone woods.
I've got a beat up early Epiphone EJ200 that sounds way, way better than it should, with a ringing sustain that makes it a pleasure to play, but it's worth buttons. Funny things guitars & people

ToneControl · November 2020

Andy79 said:

Hopefully @ToneControl will be along in a bit for a fight over Cedar tops
I wholeheartedly agree about maple bodies, tight snappy base makes for an excellent wood. Looks the parts too

LOL just personal preference, and playing style
If I only played with a plectrum, I think I'd prefer spruce
The back and sides are more of an issue for me, I have not like many mahogany back+sides guitars
but love various cedar and spruce ones with rosewood back and sides

many who play fingerstyle with nails prefer cedar tops, they have more mids, but they can sound distorted when played hard with a plectrum. Redwood is similar, but even more mids

ICBM · November 2020

Interestingly I play with fingers... although I do hit the strings quite hard. Whatever the reason, cedar steel-strings don’t suit me. In fact ‘pretty’ sounding guitars don’t suit me in general - I prefer something with more roughness and punch. I would never say never though, I haven’t played all the cedar guitars there are!

earwighoney · November 2020

ICBM said:

Interestingly I play with fingers... although I do hit the strings quite hard. Whatever the reason, cedar steel-strings don’t suit me. In fact ‘pretty’ sounding guitars don’t suit me in general - I prefer something with more roughness and punch. I would never say never though, I haven’t played all the cedar guitars there are!

Interesting observation. I have a all solid Recording King which fits your description for sounding a bit honky, rough and punchy. It kind of has a scooped midrange but it works really well for playing with a slide. Not a guitar for playing Bach but one for ragtime.

ICBM said:

earwighoney said:

Any particular reason for that ICBM?

I find cedar too 'soft' sounding for steel-string guitars - I prefer the punch of spruce. Cedar sounds better for a nylon-string to me though, I find spruce classicals too 'plinky'.

earwighoney said:

What difference does a maple neck make for an acoustic guitar in comparison for a mahogany one? Of course, it's impossible to generalize but is one more or less stable than the other?

Tighter, more ringing sound - it is also stronger and more stable too.

I actually wonder if the softer cedar and tighter maple might counteract each other.

Thanks for the info. A few Eastman acoustics have maple necks and they sound great. There are a few models with maple necks and cedar soundboards as well.
I'm largely an acoustic player but an all maple neck is my favourite neck for an electric.
As for spruce classicals sounding plinky I can get what you mean as with cedar soundboards for steel strings being a soft/'polite'. They seem to favour a lighter touch from my experience.

JerkMoans · November 2020

Well look here: the good news is, it's arrived...

The bad? I think I may well have bought a pig in a poke...

Comes in an authentic and (I think) period correct Gibson case...

Which is a little bit big for it. Well, it happens...

Certainly looks fairly snazzy, with abalone sound hole inlay and all...

And check this insane quilting on the rear...

JerkMoans · November 2020

Some sort of pickup system on board...

And the internal label looks kosher...

JerkMoans · November 2020

But, as first spotted by our very own @danishbacon , it's had a Bridge Doctor installed, which was not disclosed in the ad., and after I'd spotted the extra dot behind the string pegs on the out of focus pictures and asked the seller about, he failed to get back to me. Not wildly happy about that little detail.

JerkMoans · November 2020

But then why would we have single ply binding on most of the guitar (that no other Cascade I've been able to find on the net possesses: they're all multi-ply)

...but then have multi-ply binding only where the neck meets the body...

JerkMoans · November 2020

...and these tuners look like they were installed in the dark...

JerkMoans · November 2020

Worst of all, and sort of hard to see in the pictures, the headstock inlays look like they were put in as someone's first attempt at marquetry for a GCSE woodwork project...

JerkMoans · November 2020

So whaddaya reckon, kids? Has the curse of FleaBay bit your friendly neighbourhood Jerk, or is it all (extremely) shoddy Gibson quality control?

All advice gratefully received before I make a prize tit of myself with eBay and PayPal...

danishbacon · November 2020

Binding looks OK, check this one out https://reverb.com/ca/item/3463706-gibson-lc-1-cascade

Headstock looks OK, it's nitro, it checks around the inlays.

Tuners also look OK, bit crooked the G string one, but I suppose that's QC.

The bridge doctor is a bit of a bummer, but if the guitar plays and sounds good, that's what matters ultimately.

JerkMoans · November 2020

danishbacon said:

Binding looks OK, check this one out https://reverb.com/ca/item/3463706-gibson-lc-1-cascade

Headstock looks OK, it's nitro, it checks around the inlays.

Tuners also look OK, bit crooked the G string one, but I suppose that's QC.

The bridge doctor is a bit of a bummer, but if the guitar plays and sounds good, that's what matters ultimately.

Interesting: that one you've found is the spit of mine. Weird binding contrast between back of the neck and the rest of the body, but thanks for your insight. Maybe I'm being paranoid

ICBM · November 2020

I'm pretty sure that's genuine - the randomness of the tuner alignment is so very Gibson... all the rest is too, apart from the heel strap button which has sadly been drilled through the heel-cap - and a rather cheap non-Gibson button.

The Bridge Doctor is a major issue as it show there's a problem with the top, and is very much 'not as described' if it wasn't mentioned. The shrinkage around the inlays also probably indicates poor storage, which may or may not be related - it does happen quite often, but this is very drastic.

I assume the preamp has fallen off the inside, if it's just hanging there.

I would not be very happy, but if it was cheap enough and it plays OK and sounds good I might be inclined to ask for a partial refund rather than sending it back. The Bridge Doctor may give you some leverage (pun intended

) for this.

JerkMoans · November 2020

ICBM said:

I'm pretty sure that's genuine - the randomness of the tuner alignment is so very Gibson... all the rest is too, apart from the heel strap button which has sadly been drilled through the heel-cap - and a rather cheap non-Gibson button.

The Bridge Doctor is a major issue as it show there's a problem with the top, and is very much 'not as described' if it wasn't mentioned. The shrinkage around the inlays also probably indicates poor storage, which may or may not be related - it does happen quite often, but this is very drastic.

I assume the preamp has fallen off the inside, if it's just hanging there.

I would not be very happy, but if it was cheap enough and it plays OK and sounds good I might be inclined to ask for a partial refund rather than sending it back. The Bridge Doctor may give you some leverage (pun intended ) for this.

That's reassuring, thanks. Yeah the BD is annoying, especially as I specifically asked about it and he blanked it. Guess I'm an idiot for buying in such circumstances, but you'd think a detail like that would be mentioned, or at least fessed up to when spotted by a potential purchaser. Grrr.

Strangefan · November 2020

How much did you pay for it?

JerkMoans · November 2020

Strangefan said:

How much did you pay for it?

PM'd... More than I would have done had I known about the BD. @danishbacon tried to warn me but by then I'd won the auction and paid, so awaited delivery to see what was what.

JerkMoans · November 2020

ICBM said:

I assume the preamp has fallen off the inside, if it's just hanging there.

How do you stick them back where they should be? Glue? Gaffa tape?

ICBM · November 2020

JerkMoans said:

How do you stick them back where they should be? Glue? Gaffa tape?

They're held on with double-sided foam rubber pads about 1mm thick. If those have come off the wood, I usually stick them back with superglue, making sure that you don't actually stick the preamp itself to the guitar. This will need a fair amount of test-fitting with a mirror to make sure you get it in the right place.

This may be another sign the guitar has been stored poorly.

Kittyfrisk · November 2020

Aaawww dude, that's like totally a bummer, man.
I'd play it & sleep on it (no, not literally) and mull it over for a while before acting.
After all, as has been bemoaned on here a lot recently, eBay favours the buyer in almost every instance of grief, so raise a case & you will certainly be fully reimbursed without any interaction from the seller. In fact their silence on your specific enquiries actually helps evidence your case.
However... that has some seriously gorgeous looking woods involved, so how does it sound & feel???
Paper bag test time, probably on it's head this time

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Gibson Cascade LC 1

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