Pick Up Advice For Guild DS 240 ???

Wazmeister · November 2020

I've had 'high end' guitars all of my life, and recently I played a friends DS 240... and couldn't believe how good it was !

Only £449 new, set up perfectly out of the box, and it was really impressive for the price...

Anyway, I need a decent pick up fitted to it. Which way do I head ?

Also, the bracing seems quite close to the sound hole - anyone know which pick up systems will fit and work ?

I've always fancied something like the L R Baggs Anthem...

Thanks in advice

Andy79 · November 2020

More importantly how does it compare to that old Atkin?

Wazmeister · November 2020

Andy79 said:

More importantly how does it compare to that old Atkin?

Well Andy, I guess it cannot when you compare prices and the woods used in the build process.

I loved the Atkin.

However, when you consider the Guild is over £2000 less than the wonderful Atkin, then somethings have to be taken into account.

I wanted a cheaper guitar I can leave lying around, take outside, etc etc.

The Guild has a truly wonderful neck, and seems to bring more melody out in playing. It is rock sold in tuning (which is vital to me), and Im really quite fond of it.

The Guild def seems like a £1500 - 2000 guitar.

Just need a pick up system now...

cmacguitar · November 2020

I've got the LR Baggs M80 in my D28 and my L00-1 and love it

Epsilon · November 2020

I've been curious about these for a while. What is the neck like?

Cirrus · November 2020

I really like the K&K Pure Mini, it seems more balanced and with a better presentation of pick attack that any under-saddle transducer I've tried.

Wazmeister · November 2020

Ok, so if they all fit, what are your thoughts overall for the (best) pick up options ?

TheMadMick · November 2020

I have a K&K in my Guild and it comes out thin and weedy through a Marshall AS50D. Maybe it's the strings I have fitted but beware.

Cirrus · November 2020

TheMadMick said:

I have a K&K in my Guild and it comes out thin and weedy through a Marshall AS50D. Maybe it's the strings I have fitted but beware.

I've only tried the Pure Mini, but that's the opposite of what I've experienced compared to piezo pickups.

mgaw · November 2020

TheMadMick said:

I have a K&K in my Guild and it comes out thin and weedy through a Marshall AS50D. Maybe it's the strings I have fitted but beware.

are you using a pre amp? i have used KK for years and they sound great, very well regarded pickup

Andy79 · November 2020

Dearmond 210 and have done with it. Maybe 50 years out of date but still great

danishbacon · November 2020

Schertler Magnetico AG6 with added condenser mic, If you fancy the ‘sophisticated’ option. The m80 is nice but a bit heavy. Anthem is also a brilliant system.

stickyfiddle · November 2020

The Anthem is excellent. I had an M1A in my Taylor 214 for gigging and that always did a very solid job with minimal effort.

TheMadMick · November 2020

mgaw said:

TheMadMick said:

I have a K&K in my Guild and it comes out thin and weedy through a Marshall AS50D. Maybe it's the strings I have fitted but beware.

are you using a pre amp? i have used KK for years and they sound great, very well regarded pickup

Yep. A K&K one. Still thin and weedy. Maybe I'm simply unlucky.

ICBM · November 2020

Guild fit the DeArmond Tone Boss soundhole pickup to several of their models as stock. I haven't tried one, but I probably should - it looks as if it might be a LR Baggs M1 in disguise, but even if it isn't it should still sound better than a piezo...

Cirrus · November 2020

TheMadMick said:

mgaw said:

TheMadMick said:

I have a K&K in my Guild and it comes out thin and weedy through a Marshall AS50D. Maybe it's the strings I have fitted but beware.

are you using a pre amp? i have used KK for years and they sound great, very well regarded pickup

Yep. A K&K one. Still thin and weedy. Maybe I'm simply unlucky.

Could be that there's an issue with the installation - that'd be my bet if it's not plain broken. If they aren't firmly and uniformly glued to the bridge underside in the appropriate positions, you'll lose bottom end. I believe there's a message to that effect in the installation guide, thought it's a couple of years since I installed one.

Wazmeister · November 2020

Cirrus said:

TheMadMick said:

mgaw said:

TheMadMick said:

I have a K&K in my Guild and it comes out thin and weedy through a Marshall AS50D. Maybe it's the strings I have fitted but beware.

are you using a pre amp? i have used KK for years and they sound great, very well regarded pickup

Yep. A K&K one. Still thin and weedy. Maybe I'm simply unlucky.

Could be that there's an issue with the installation - that'd be my bet if it's not plain broken. If they aren't firmly and uniformly glued to the bridge underside in the appropriate positions, you'll lose bottom end. I believe there's a message to that effect in the installation guide, thought it's a couple of years since I installed one.

Thanks for all the input guys...

So, as Ill be doing the installation myself (maybe), I have a couple of questions please;

1.) Which is easier to fit ?

2.) Or would I be better going for the LR Baggs Anthem and having it fitted by a luthier ?

@Danishbacon

@ICBM

danishbacon · November 2020

All of them will require drilling into the end pin (unless you want a dangling cord out the sound hole for the sound hole mounted ones, ie. you could use it amplified only when needed but it's a faff, strings off, etc). That job in itself is doable if you have the correct tools, so assuming that, sound hole is easiest install. This option also exists, but given the cost of the guitar, I'd just have it drilled and jack installed. http://www.tapastring.com/vintagejack.htm

Baggs anthem is definitely more involved and requires a small hole into the end of the saddle slot and a hole into the bridge and top underneath. It's also a more 'invasive' install, nothing that damages the guitar or really fundamentally changes is, but you'll now have things glued to the top from the inside, battery and a 'fallible' preamp. It's all mostly reversible though, except for the saddle holes and likely glue residue inside the guitar. If that all sounds scary, a luthier is the right way to go.

ICBM · November 2020

The K&K is the least difficult of any 'permanent' install, but as already said you will still have to ream out the endpin hole. It's also not that easy if you're not familiar with working 'blind' inside a guitar with superglue - don't even think about using double-sided tape, it doesn't work well enough and makes the pickup sound bad - even if you follow the instructions very carefully with the locating jig, which does work very well.

A soundhole pickup is the only type that's any easier - it will still need the endpin hole reaming, but apart from that just a screwdriver to tighten the clamping screws. Some install instructions suggest using sticky cable clips on the inside but I would avoid these - they never seem to stick well permanently, and you're better to just put a loose loop/knot in the cable or cable-tie it to stop it flapping against the inside.

Wazmeister · November 2020

ICBM said:

The K&K is the least difficult of any 'permanent' install, but as already said you will still have to ream out the endpin hole. It's also not that easy if you're not familiar with working 'blind' inside a guitar with superglue - don't even think about using double-sided tape, it doesn't work well enough and makes the pickup sound bad - even if you follow the instructions very carefully with the locating jig, which does work very well.

A soundhole pickup is the only type that's any easier - it will still need the endpin hole reaming, but apart from that just a screwdriver to tighten the clamping screws. Some install instructions suggest using sticky cable clips on the inside but I would avoid these - they never seem to stick well permanently, and you're better to just put a loose loop/knot in the cable or cable-tie it to stop it flapping against the inside.

Thanks mate, as ever, really appreciated...

Is there much difference in sound quality between say a K&K and LR Baggs M1/M80 ?

danishbacon · November 2020

Wazmeister said:

ICBM said:

The K&K is the least difficult of any 'permanent' install, but as already said you will still have to ream out the endpin hole. It's also not that easy if you're not familiar with working 'blind' inside a guitar with superglue - don't even think about using double-sided tape, it doesn't work well enough and makes the pickup sound bad - even if you follow the instructions very carefully with the locating jig, which does work very well.

A soundhole pickup is the only type that's any easier - it will still need the endpin hole reaming, but apart from that just a screwdriver to tighten the clamping screws. Some install instructions suggest using sticky cable clips on the inside but I would avoid these - they never seem to stick well permanently, and you're better to just put a loose loop/knot in the cable or cable-tie it to stop it flapping against the inside.

Thanks mate, as ever, really appreciated...

Is there much difference in sound quality between say a K&K and LR Baggs M1/M80 ?

I've not tried the K&K but I would imagine that they are fundamentally different approaches to amplification altogether.

Cirrus · November 2020

Wazmeister said:

Is there much difference in sound quality between say a K&K and LR Baggs M1/M80 ?

Yes, the singer in my old band had the latter. Much less chance of feedback on stage but fundamentally it sounds more like a kind of acoustic-y magnetic pickup, the K&K has more body resonance.

ICBM · November 2020

Wazmeister said:

Is there much difference in sound quality between say a K&K and LR Baggs M1/M80 ?

Yes

. Although more in ‘type’ than ‘quality’.

The K&K is the closest of any of the simple single-type pickups to using a mic - it’s natural-sounding (especially in the dynamics) but can be prone to feedback and boominess, and can sound a bit ‘flat’ without a bit of EQ and reverb. Although it’s not an undersaddle piezo and doesn’t have that nasty tizz, it is still a type of piezo.

The Baggs is a magnetic pickup and sounds like an ‘acoustified’ electric guitar - it’s one of the more natural-sounding but still has that slight metallic character, especially on the plain strings played higher up. It’s also more feedback-prone than other soundhole pickups (eg Fishman Rare Earth) because it has a body movement sensor, which is the other side of being more natural-sounding...

crunchman · November 2020

The other option is to get a basic undersaddle piezo, and use something outboard like a TC Bodyrez, or Boss AD-2 to make it sound more natural.

Wazmeister · November 2020

ICBM said:

Wazmeister said:

Is there much difference in sound quality between say a K&K and LR Baggs M1/M80 ?

Yes . Although more in ‘type’ than ‘quality’.

The K&K is the closest of any of the simple single-type pickups to using a mic - it’s natural-sounding (especially in the dynamics) but can be prone to feedback and boominess, and can sound a bit ‘flat’ without a bit of EQ and reverb. Although it’s not an undersaddle piezo and doesn’t have that nasty tizz, it is still a type of piezo.

The Baggs is a magnetic pickup and sounds like an ‘acoustified’ electric guitar - it’s one of the more natural-sounding but still has that slight metallic character, especially on the plain strings played higher up. It’s also more feedback-prone than other soundhole pickups (eg Fishman Rare Earth) because it has a body movement sensor, which is the other side of being more natural-sounding...

Thanks all - really appreciate the guidance

Im going for the K&K Pure Mini...

Next up, which pre-amp should I go for (new thread time maybes)

TheMadMick · November 2020

The safe bet is the one designed for the pick up K&K. Comes in about £100.00.

ICBM · November 2020

TheMadMick said:

The safe bet is the one designed for the pick up K&K. Comes in about £100.00.

This - the other standard choices like the Baggs Para DI actually have *too* high an impedance for the K&K (10M, which is usually an advantage, for other pickups). Although if you put a Boss TU-2/3 tuner first in line after the guitar, that will fix that since it has a 1M impedance

.

Wazmeister · November 2020

ICBM said:

TheMadMick said:

The safe bet is the one designed for the pick up K&K. Comes in about £100.00.

This - the other standard choices like the Baggs Para DI actually have *too* high an impedance for the K&K (10M, which is usually an advantage, for other pickups). Although if you put a Boss TU-2/3 tuner first in line after the guitar, that will fix that since it has a 1M impedance .

Mate, that is great advice - thank you.

So, Ive fitted the K&K (sounds dead good actually, and Im pleased I managed it !), and have got a Grace Design Box coming (cost nearly as much as my guitar - go figure)...

It recommends one of these;

BiX Input Impedance Adaptor

Female 1/4″ TS plug to a Male 1/4″ TRS plug converts instrument input from 10Meg ohms to 1Meg ohms.

Question: do I need this adapter if I run a Boss TU3w, as you recommended ?

Really appreciate your input

ICBM · November 2020

Wazmeister said:

That seems a bit excessive when all you need is a 1M resistor soldered into the plug on a cable, or the input of the preamp!

Wazmeister said:

Question: do I need this adapter if I run a Boss TU3w, as you recommended ?

Not if you have the tuner set to buffered, not true bypass.

If you don’t have one already don’t get the Waza, I’m pretty sure that’s the only difference.

Wazmeister · November 2020

ICBM said:

Wazmeister said:

That seems a bit excessive when all you need is a 1M resistor soldered into the plug on a cable, or the input of the preamp!

Wazmeister said:

Question: do I need this adapter if I run a Boss TU3w, as you recommended ?

Not if you have the tuner set to buffered, not true bypass.

If you don’t have one already don’t get the Waza, I’m pretty sure that’s the only difference.

@ICBM, you my friend, are an absolute super star... many thanks

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Pick Up Advice For Guild DS 240 ???

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BiX Input Impedance Adaptor

Female 1/4″ TS plug to a Male 1/4″ TRS plug converts instrument input from 10Meg ohms to 1Meg ohms.