NGD: Cordoba C12 classical

TheBigDipper · August 2020

So the search for my first classical guitar in approx 40 years came to an abrupt halt yesterday - a bit sooner than expected. I yo-yo'd between buying a "proper" classical vs buying a hybrid/crossover. I'd started leaning towards a hybrid (for playability reasons).

However, yesterday, I found myself playing a new Cordoba C10 classical priced at the top of my planned budget and realising that this would be a fine guitar to take home. Then I asked to play the C12, somewhat well outside what I'd had in mind to pay, just to see what the extra dosh would bring to the party...

So, the pic below is of my new Cordoba C12. All solid woods. Cedar top, rosewood back and sides. Bone nut and saddle. Despite my search showing me I prefer the playability of crossover classicals, none of the crossovers I played sounded anywhere near as good as this. And in the end, it's the sound you make that counts, not how easy it was to produce that sound.

The guitar was made in China. Build quality looks and feels excellent. Lattice-braced (the C10 I liked was fan-braced). I'm going to sound like a cork-sniffing valve amp enthusiast now, but the tone is complex and rich compared to the C10 (which in itself I would have been very happy with - it's a good guitar) and I just had to have it. The fretboard is "raised" where it meets the body, so it's a bit easier to get your fingers onto the high frets. It responded to changes in right hand position and strike velocity in a pleasing way. I've got nails on my right hand at the moment, but I don't always. It'll be interesting to see how it sounds when the strings are struck with flesh.

So, apologies for the usual gushing thoughts of someone with a new guitar. Now I'm going to knuckle down and try and get some pieces under my fingers to justify buying the thing!

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jv1ebb0tnt324gi/IMG_2204.jpg?raw=1

Chris_J · August 2020

Very nice!

Sometimes the right guitar takes you by surprise

GTC · August 2020

It looks great - I had a lefty C10 a while back but thought that was a very competent but unremarkable guitar. This looks a big step forward and has increased my desire to try a lattice-braced classical - although I'm not sure how I can break it to Mrs. GTC. I'd be interested to hear how you find the raised fretboard. It is said to by some to improve the acoustic properties as well. I've even seen some reviews comparing the C12 favourably with guitars costing over £5k

If you haven't come across them before, I'd strongly recommend the Bridget Merkimedes books if you are looking for classical inspiration

Toms_Dad · August 2020

That looks lovely!

Watch out though, classical guitar can be very addictive! I no longer play a steel strung acoustic at all, they just sound “plinky” to me compared to the rich mellow sound of a good classical. It also seems to me it is particularly well suited to these days as it sounds great as a solo instrument.
You should post again soon and let us know how the journey goes.

ToneControl · August 2020

Toms_Dad said:

That looks lovely!
Watch out though, classical guitar can be very addictive! I no longer play a steel strung acoustic at all, they just sound “plinky” to me compared to the rich mellow sound of a good classical. It also seems to me it is particularly well suited to these days as it sounds great as a solo instrument.
You should post again soon and let us know how the journey goes.

I bought my 2 classicals within a couple of months, and found it hard to play steel string again for a long time, sounded like the mids were missing

ToneControl · August 2020

GTC said:

It looks great - I had a lefty C10 a while back but thought that was a very competent but unremarkable guitar. This looks a big step forward and has increased my desire to try a lattice-braced classical - although I'm not sure how I can break it to Mrs. GTC. I'd be interested to hear how you find the raised fretboard. It is said to by some to improve the acoustic properties as well. I've even seen some reviews comparing the C12 favourably with guitars costing over £5k

If you haven't come across them before, I'd strongly recommend the Bridget Merkimedes books if you are looking for classical inspiration

I have the raised fingerboard on my Yulong Guo, it does make it more accessible at the dusty end

ToneControl · August 2020

TheBigDipper said:

So the search for my first classical guitar in approx 40 years came to an abrupt halt yesterday - a bit sooner than expected. I yo-yo'd between buying a "proper" classical vs buying a hybrid/crossover. I'd started leaning towards a hybrid (for playability reasons).

However, yesterday, I found myself playing a new Cordoba C10 classical priced at the top of my planned budget and realising that this would be a fine guitar to take home. Then I asked to play the C12, somewhat well outside what I'd had in mind to pay, just to see what the extra dosh would bring to the party...

So, the pic below is of my new Cordoba C12. All solid woods. Cedar top, rosewood back and sides. Bone nut and saddle. Despite my search showing me I prefer the playability of crossover classicals, none of the crossovers I played sounded anywhere near as good as this. And in the end, it's the sound you make that counts, not how easy it was to produce that sound.

The guitar was made in China. Build quality looks and feels excellent. Lattice-braced (the C10 I liked was fan-braced). I'm going to sound like a cork-sniffing valve amp enthusiast now, but the tone is complex and rich compared to the C10 (which in itself I would have been very happy with - it's a good guitar) and I just had to have it. The fretboard is "raised" where it meets the body, so it's a bit easier to get your fingers onto the high frets. It responded to changes in right hand position and strike velocity in a pleasing way. I've got nails on my right hand at the moment, but I don't always. It'll be interesting to see how it sounds when the strings are struck with flesh.

So, apologies for the usual gushing thoughts of someone with a new guitar. Now I'm going to knuckle down and try and get some pieces under my fingers to justify buying the thing!

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jv1ebb0tnt324gi/IMG_2204.jpg?raw=1

Ask the store whether they recommend carbon strings for it

John Williams only plays lattice-braced now AFAIK, and uses Carbons
Call the London guitar studio for advice if you want, they supply him
However, as I think I mentioned, they are very slippy, put on 3 times the number of twists at both ends as the normal clear strings.

TheBigDipper · August 2020

ToneControl said:

TheBigDipper said:

<snip>

Ask the store whether they recommend carbon strings for it

John Williams only plays lattice-braced now AFAIK, and uses Carbons
Call the London guitar studio for advice if you want, they supply him
However, as I think I mentioned, they are very slippy, put on 3 times the number of twists at both ends as the normal clear strings.

Good suggestion. Ta. I certainly intend to try carbons unless I get told it's bad for the guitar. I don't think they existed when I last owned a classical guitar (in 1973), but it's possible that the 16 year old me was just unaware.

FWIW, I played the C10 and C12 without knowing anything about how they were braced. I just went with my ears (and my wife ears at 5m away in the shop).

ToneControl · August 2020

TheBigDipper said:

ToneControl said:

TheBigDipper said:

<snip>

Ask the store whether they recommend carbon strings for it

John Williams only plays lattice-braced now AFAIK, and uses Carbons
Call the London guitar studio for advice if you want, they supply him
However, as I think I mentioned, they are very slippy, put on 3 times the number of twists at both ends as the normal clear strings.

Good suggestion. Ta. I certainly intend to try carbons unless I get told it's bad for the guitar. I don't think they existed when I last owned a classical guitar (in 1973), but it's possible that the 16 year old me was just unaware.

FWIW, I played the C10 and C12 without knowing anything about how they were braced. I just went with my ears (and my wife ears at 5m away in the shop).

Like you, I just tried them out and decided what sounded best for me

I went to buy a Ramirez 1A made by Amalia Ramirez, https://nugentguitars.com/amalia-ramirez/
and ended up with the Stephen Hill 1A instead

m0rt · August 2020

I recently purchased a Cordoba C9 crossover to compliment a GK Pro. I have to say the work is excellent for the money. The only oddity was the saddle had a flatter radius than the fretboard so the middle two strings where lower: the D had a tendency to buzz on a rest stroke. so had a new saddle fitted and now excellent. I little percussive right now but should settle down over time.

@ToneControl nice choice. I test played a Stephen Hill a few years ago before getting a Vicente Carrillo, and it was a lovely thing indeed. a 660mm scale neck IIRC.

TheBigDipper · August 2020

m0rt said:

I recently purchased a Cordoba C9 crossover to compliment a GK Pro. I have to say the work is excellent for the money. The only oddity was the saddle had a flatter radius than the fretboard so the middle two strings where lower: the D had a tendency to buzz on a rest stroke. so had a new saddle fitted and now excellent. I little percussive right now but should settle down over time.

@ToneControl nice choice. I test played a Stephen Hill a few years ago before getting a Vicente Carrillo, and it was a lovely thing indeed. a 660mm scale neck IIRC.

On "purchase day" I also played a C9 Crossover and a couple of La Patrie. The La Patries were nicest of them all to play but sounded horrible. The C9 Crossover was a bit dull sounding compared to the C10 and even the C7 I tried.

m0rt · August 2020

TheBigDipper said:

m0rt said:

I recently purchased a Cordoba C9 crossover to compliment a GK Pro. I have to say the work is excellent for the money. The only oddity was the saddle had a flatter radius than the fretboard so the middle two strings where lower: the D had a tendency to buzz on a rest stroke. so had a new saddle fitted and now excellent. I little percussive right now but should settle down over time.

@ToneControl nice choice. I test played a Stephen Hill a few years ago before getting a Vicente Carrillo, and it was a lovely thing indeed. a 660mm scale neck IIRC.

On "purchase day" I also played a C9 Crossover and a couple of La Patrie. The La Patries were nicest of them all to play but sounded horrible. The C9 Crossover was a bit dull sounding compared to the C10 and even the C7 I tried.

This is the main reason it always is the best choice to go and play the guitars you want to buy.

. The Cordoba MIC Luthier series are excellent, i think. I'd like to try and see what the Spanish made FCWE is like.

GTC · August 2020

I was interested to hear your La Patrie experiences. I bought the cheapest guitar in the La Patrie range (the Etude) secondhand (a lefty) to tide me over a while back and I honestly preferred the tone to my old Cordoba C10. I've never tried any other La Patrie though. Your comments on the sound seem to agree with a few comparison reviews I've seen. Perhaps I was lucky.

I had a GK Pro and found it the nicest Cordoba I've played (I thought better than the Fusion crossovers) - although I've never been able to try a C12 - they don't do a lefty version.

TheBigDipper · August 2020

GTC said:

I was interested to hear your La Patrie experiences. I bought the cheapest guitar in the La Patrie range (the Etude) secondhand (a lefty) to tide me over a while back and I honestly preferred the tone to my old Cordoba C10. I've never tried any other La Patrie though. Your comments on the sound seem to agree with a few comparison reviews I've seen. Perhaps I was lucky.

I had a GK Pro and found it the nicest Cordoba I've played (I thought better than the Fusion crossovers) - although I've never been able to try a C12 - they don't do a lefty version.

It's worth saying that I wasn't interested in how any of the guitars sounded when amplified - just the sound in the room. I also focused on cedar tops and not spruce. The La Patries I played both had pickups - maybe that changes the way the top works. They seemed a bit stiff - maybe a bit thicker?

I wouldn't worry about a leftie C12. You've got a leftie Cary! :-)

GTC · August 2020

TheBigDipper said:
It's worth saying that I wasn't interested in how any of the guitars sounded when amplified - just the sound in the room. I also focused on cedar tops and not spruce. The La Patries I played both had pickups - maybe that changes the way the top works. They seemed a bit stiff - maybe a bit thicker?

I wouldn't worry about a leftie C12. You've got a leftie Cary! :-)

Yes, I have the lefty Brook Cary and I absolutely love it. The trouble is, someone planted the "lattice-braced" seed in my head and I'm keen to try one out. Being left-handed, that most probably means buying one!

TheBigDipper · August 2020

GTC said:

TheBigDipper said:<snip>

Yes, I have the lefty Brook Cary and I absolutely love it. The trouble is, someone planted the "lattice-braced" seed in my head and I'm keen to try one out. Being left-handed, that most probably means buying one!

Who was that, then? I think I said a few days ago that I had no idea how the C10 or the C12 were braced when I chose the C12. From a few metres away, my wife said the C12 projected more and sounded better. Facing a wall, I thought it was more “complex” in its tone (cork sniffing language again, sorry) and that was it. I don't even know what lattice bracing lets the luthier do. Oh well...

GTC · August 2020

TheBigDipper said:

GTC said:

TheBigDipper said:<snip>

Yes, I have the lefty Brook Cary and I absolutely love it. The trouble is, someone planted the "lattice-braced" seed in my head and I'm keen to try one out. Being left-handed, that most probably means buying one!

Who was that, then? I think I said a few days ago that I had no idea how the C10 or the C12 were braced when I chose the C12. From a few metres away, my wife said the C12 projected more and sounded better. Facing a wall, I thought it was more “complex” in its tone (cork sniffing language again, sorry) and that was it. I don't even know what lattice bracing lets the luthier do. Oh well...

No, it wasn't you. But when you said you'd gone for the C12, I had a quick look at the spec and saw it was lattice-braced AND had a "raised" fretboard (probably more accurately referred as a dropped body). A few weeks earlier, the term lattice bracing was mentioned to me on this forum. I'd never heard of it before and I did a bit of research, saw a few videos - and your conclusions seemed to back up what I'd found out.

As you say, it is all luthier stuff and at the end of the day it is down to how a particular guitar sounds, plays and feels - regardless of what is inside. I love the Cary but I can't help being curious ......

TheBigDipper · November 2020

I thought a little update might be in order after playing this for nearly 3 months.

Still very happy and enjoying making nice noises. Like most "projecting" guitars, it sounds better to other people in the room than it does for the player - which is a real shame. I'm starting to see the value of ports in the upper bout.

Now thinking of changing the strings and doing some experimenting with materials and tension. After that (probably in the New Year when I can assume it's settled down nicely) I might see what a luthier can do to improve the playability further - but I want to be confident about the strings I'll be using first.

barry2tone · November 2020

TheBigDipper said:

Still very happy and enjoying making nice noises. Like most "projecting" guitars, it sounds better to other people in the room than it does for the player - which is a real shame. I'm starting to see the value of ports in the upper bout.

Yep, took a friend last time so I could listen to a variety of possibles. He didn't rate the C12 above other choices, but it was plain to me out front. The sound is just somehow much fuller and solid than the C9/10.

barry2tone · November 2020

TheBigDipper said:

Still very happy and enjoying making nice noises. Like most "projecting" guitars, it sounds better to other people in the room than it does for the player - which is a real shame. I'm starting to see the value of ports in the upper bout.

Yep, took a friend last time so I could listen to a variety of possibles. He didn't rate the C12 above other choices, but it was plain to me out front. The sound is just somehow much fuller and solid than the C9/10.

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NGD: Cordoba C12 classical

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