Factory fitted vs retrofit pickup query for a new acoustic

Benm39 · August 2020

Hi folks,

I'm thinking of treating myself to a decent acoustic. I'm a home player and it's unlikely I'll ever be gigging but it's just conceivable I may join some acoustic night sessions down the local once things return a bit more to normal, ditto re open mic stuff so I'm quite tempted by getting something with a pickup but welcome fretboard folks' thoughts on the the relative merits of factory fitted vs retrofit as can either spend my budget solely on the guitar and add pickup later if straightforward or get the future stuff included from the start...

In terms of budget I've been looking at instruments from the Furch yellow, orange and possibly red series. Would welcome other suggestions as to what to look at also!

Many thanks

shufflebeat · August 2020

I think it's fair to say the situation has developed in the last 10-15 years. I experimented with various pickups when I first started playing acoustic in bands and it was pretty awful. The best option then was a factory fitted piezo UST and the best of them all was probably Takamine.

Since then there have been dramatic improvements in USTs, development of SBTs and a huge leap forward in onboard and outboard electronics to make the most of a pickup signal.

There has traditionally been something of a trade-off between guitars for playing acoustically and filling a room with sound directly from the soundboard, requiring a very responsive construction, and instruments for the big stage where such a responsive nature could result in uncontrollable low end feedback. These guitars would often be made a bit stiffer which made acoustic playing a bit dead.

In recent years the evolution of tech makes for many more options but the pressure to make "affordable" options means this evolution has not travelled in one direction and it can't be assumed that a cheaper factory fitted option is even playable.

If it was me I'd find a guitar that suits you and then research what pickup system fits your requirements at your leisure.

Kristo · August 2020

I'd get the guitar I wanted and then fit a K & K Pure mini pickup later. Or get a Bedell as they have K & Ks fitted when made.

Is it obvious I like K & K acoustic pickups.....

stickyfiddle · August 2020

Pick the guitar for its own merits then worry about pickups as & when you need. Even more so if you're going for something at the "nice" end of guitars.

I'm a big fan of LR Baggs stuff. I had an M1A in my old Taylor 214 workhorse, and now have an Anthem in my Martin.

Benm39 · August 2020

Many thanks guys. Yup, having read some more here regarding relative pros and cons etc I'm more inclined to focus on getting the guitar I want and then sort out any pickup solution, if desired, as and when (or simply an alternative guitar at that point

)

K&K seem to get pretty universal high praise

and an LR Baggs Anthem side mount was the other I was looking at. Time to start getting out and trying instruments!

Cheers , the guitar search commences!

ICBM · August 2020

I would say always get a plain acoustic and retro-fit a pickup, firstly because you're not compromising the quality of the guitar you can afford for a pickup system you will rarely use, and secondly because it's next to impossible to get a factory-fitted pickup without unnecessary, complex, and often bespoke electronics which makes repairing, replacing or upgrading it a nightmare.

Modern retro-fit pickups and outboard preamps are in a different league from most of what you get fitted onboard until you get up to pretty high-end guitars, and then there's every chance the system will be obsolete before the guitar has nicely aged, even if it hasn't already failed by then...

I would only buy an electro-acoustic if I had an immediate and principal need for it as a stage guitar.

danishbacon · August 2020

Years ago, I owned a ’39 D-28, which sported prominent screw holes through the rosette for surfacemounting a magnetic pickup, as well as a plugged hole below the bridge where a volume pot once lived. I don’t know how long a pickup was used on that guitar, but it couldn’t have been for more than a fraction of its life. The disfiguration of a vintage classic, however, is permanent. The first question to ask when contemplating pickup installation is, “What alterations am I willing to live with after discarding an obsolete pickup?” Mounting a magnetic pickup on a prewar D-28 seems like an obvious no-no, now that the pickup is long gone, and prewar D-28s cost more than my first house. But what about installing a modern pickup on a Brazilian Santa Cruz? These days, pickup installation typically requires enlarging the endpin hole to accept a ¼-inch jack, securing wires and/or batteries to the interior of a guitar, drilling a hole through the saddle slot, and so on. Some alterations are irreversible. Anyone who’s tried removing the formerly gummy, later petrified adhesives used to mount interior components, however, can attest to the lasting quality of even the least obtrusive aspects of pickup installation. A fine acoustic guitar can last several lifetimes. But will today’s acoustic pickups someday be prized by future collectors in the same way that, say, antique carbon ribbon microphones are now coveted? I’m betting that some modern-day Nikola Tesla invents a highfidelity, wireless, miniature, low-impact, acoustic sensing element in your lifetime, if not mine, rendering contemporary pickups obsolete. I understand why players need pickups. Whether you’re a pro who can afford a salaried sound man, or you gig for fun just a couple times a year, you still want good sound. The guy who installed the pickup on my D-28 was also after the best sound available at the time. My advice to clients who request pickups is to think globally about how they intend to use their guitars, and to alter with caution. An amplified acoustic guitar sounds as good as the entire signal chain, which for the pros includes guitar, pickup, cables, preamp, signal processing equipment, and sound system— not to mention judicious and experienced mixing. The Brazilian Santa Cruz with a pickup and an “acoustic” amp probably beats “rubber bands on a cigar box,” but don’t expect it to match the concert fidelity of Sean Watkins from last year’s Nickel Creek tour. Many guitars produced today by independent luthiers, boutique shops, and the custom facilities of large production shops are destined to become tomorrow’s vintage classics. If you can afford the Santa Cruz, you can probably also afford a designated gigging guitar. Quality new and used high-volume production guitars are available literally by the millions. Plugged in and with minimal sound support, many, if not most, sound about the same as the guitars you’re saving for the grandchildren. If you’re less committed to collecting sound reinforcement than to collecting guitars, think about keeping the Santa Cruz in the music room—and wait patiently for the second coming of Nikola Tesla.

There was a nice article on the topic in 2015:

https://bourgeoisguitars.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/AG-Dec-Guru.pdf

Benm39 · August 2020

Thanks both for the further clear steer. Acoustic it shall be

crunchman · August 2020

If you find an acoustic you like with a pickup built in, which a lot have, I wouldn't let you put it off.

Things like the TC Bodyrez pedal can make an undersaddle sound a lot more natural when plugged in. I had one of the budget Mexican made Martins with a Fishman Sonitone undersaddle. With a TC Bodyrez, that was just as good through the PA as another guitar with a K&K Pure Mini.

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Factory fitted vs retrofit pickup query for a new acoustic

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