What classical guitar should I look for?

TheBigDipper · July 2020

drofluf said:

GTC said:

<snip>

I've heard other forum members praise the Faith Lyra crossover. Alas, they don't do left-handed models so I've never tried one.

That was probably me, I do tend to bang on about it @TheBigDipper just measured the action on mine, it’s about 2.25mm on the low E if that’s any help.

Yes. Helpful. ta.

TheBigDipper · July 2020

GTC said:

I haven't got it any more so I can't measure it - but I was able to bring the low E action down to under 2.5mm on the La Patrie Etude just by lowering the saddle without any issues. Out of the box, the action will be much higher though.

I much preferred the much cheaper La Patrie Etude to the considerably more expensive luthier series Cordoba C10 I once had. I've also had two Cordoba crossover guitars and found them unbalanced in tone and very "boomy" on the lower strings.

Again, very helpful, thanks. I'm going to play the Cordobas as a comparison. They stock 'em, so why not?

GTC · July 2020

TheBigDipper said:

Again, very helpful, thanks. I'm going to play the Cordobas as a comparison. They stock 'em, so why not?

And so you should. It is all a matter of personal preference and some US reviews rate Cordobas higher than La Patrie. That isn't my opinion though.

If you are going to Project Music then it is worth also looking at a Furch Grand Nylon. They appear to have at least one in stock. They are a good example of how good a properly designed crossover can sound. It might be a little above your budget, it isn't the loudest guitar and it has a narrow (for a nylon strung) 45mm nut width with (I think) a 16" fretboard radius - but the sweet clear balanced tone is better than any other crossover I've played.

They stock them and you are going there -so why not?

TheBigDipper · July 2020

GTC said:

TheBigDipper said:

<snip>
If you are going to Project Music then it is worth also looking at a Furch Grand Nylon. They appear to have at least one in stock. They are a good example of how good a properly designed crossover can sound. It might be a little above your budget, it isn't the loudest guitar and it has a narrow (for a nylon strung) 45mm nut width with (I think) a 16" fretboard radius - but the sweet clear balanced tone is better than any other crossover I've played.

They stock them and you are going there -so why not?

Don't think I hadn't noticed. I'm a big Furch fan. My 12 string acoustic is a lovely Stonebridge from the days when Furch was trying to be less "Czech" to the North American market. :-)

WindmillGuitars · July 2020

@TheBigDipper - don't know if you're sorted as yet, however i've just taken in this handcrafted hybrid classical which is simply outstanding for the money. I realise I'm a distance from you however if you're interested and want to know more drop me a line.
Cheers Simon

https://www.windmillguitars.com/collections/frontpage/products/norman-coates-hybrid-classical

TheBigDipper · July 2020

WindmillGuitars said:

<snip> - don't know if you're sorted as yet, however i've just taken in this handcrafted hybrid classical which is simply outstanding for the money. I realise I'm a distance from you however if you're interested and want to know more drop me a line.
Cheers Simon

https://www.windmillguitars.com/collections/frontpage/products/norman-coates-hybrid-classical

Thanks for asking. Not at all sorted. It's a slow process with me! Next week I'll be trying out a few different hybrids to see how I get on with them and hopefully comparing them with standard classicals during the same visit. I'm looking for a cedar top, not spruce, though.

ToneControl · July 2020

WindmillGuitars said:

@TheBigDipper - don't know if you're sorted as yet, however i've just taken in this handcrafted hybrid classical which is simply outstanding for the money. I realise I'm a distance from you however if you're interested and want to know more drop me a line.
Cheers Simon

https://www.windmillguitars.com/collections/frontpage/products/norman-coates-hybrid-classical

does it have standard Lowden/Avalon X bracing, or is it more lightly braced?
how wide is the nut?

TheBigDipper · August 2020

So, played some guitars today at Absolute Music.

Faith Lyra - a hybrid with a 48mm nut. Lovely to play but sounded like it was made of plastic and badged "Chad Valley". What a shame...
A lattice-braced 1973 Jose Ramirez - sounded really nice, Despite needing new strings, decent volume, but not that nice to actually play.

An Alhambra/Alvarez (can't remember which!) - sounded almost as nice as the Ramirez, cheaper, but not nice enough a player.

Project Music tomorrow to try out some Cordobas and La Patries.

GTC · August 2020

TheBigDipper said:

Project Music tomorrow to try out some Cordobas and La Patries.

Don't forget the Furch

TheBigDipper · August 2020

GTC said:

TheBigDipper said:

Project Music tomorrow to try out some Cordobas and La Patries.

Don't forget the Furch

Closer inspection of their website suggests it's not in stock. Only available for order. If they have one, I'll be playing it!

GTC · August 2020

TheBigDipper said:

GTC said:

TheBigDipper said:

Project Music tomorrow to try out some Cordobas and La Patries.

Don't forget the Furch

Closer inspection of their website suggests it's not in stock. Only available for order. If they have one, I'll be playing it!

The GNC2-SW (spruce / walnut) is shown as being in stock. That's the model that I had.

TheBigDipper · August 2020

So it is.

TheBigDipper · August 2020

So, back from Project Music.

They didn't have the Furch in the shop, no matter what the website said.

The La Patries were well made and nice to play. I prefer plain guitars and liked how they look. Very heavy for an acoustic, not very loud and didn't sound that great. Dull, really.
The Cordoba C10 Crossover was nice to play, but a little one dimensional in tone and not quite balanced across the strings.

The C7 didn't sound that great nor play that well.
The C10 was much better. Nice balanced tone, good variation in volume between digging in and playing softly. Right hand position changes really sweetened or sharpened the tone.

I decided to play the C12 to see what you get for a bit more dosh. Bad move. It came home with me.

NGD post to follow, but thanks all for your input. Now I've got some pieces to learn/relearn. :-)

GTC · August 2020

Congratulations - the C12 looks a lovely guitar with excellent specs including lattice bracing and a raised fingerboard. I'm looking forward to hearing what you think about it in the NGD.

I'd never heard of lattice bracing before it was mentioned to me on this forum a short while ago. After doing some research and hearing the difference it could make on You Tube videos I've now got a hankering to try a lattice-braced classical. Unfortunately, Cordoba don't do a lefty version of the C12.

ToneControl · August 2020

GTC said:

Congratulations - the C12 looks a lovely guitar with excellent specs including lattice bracing and a raised fingerboard. I'm looking forward to hearing what you think about it in the NGD.

I'd never heard of lattice bracing before it was mentioned to me on this forum a short while ago. After doing some research and hearing the difference it could make on You Tube videos I've now got a hankering to try a lattice-braced classical. Unfortunately, Cordoba don't do a lefty version of the C12.

Stephen Hill makes them in Granada, he'd do a lefty, but of course more expensive

I saw a lefty "Squier" version of the Yulong Guo here, no idea how good it is, my Yulong Guo sounds very good
https://calidoguitars.com/store/Calido-CG-3222-CAX-Left-Handed-Solid-Cedar-Top-Lattice-Braced-Arched-Indian-Rosewood-Back-p92329291

GTC · August 2020

ToneControl said:Stephen Hill makes them in Granada, he'd do a lefty, but of course more expensive

I saw a lefty "Squier" version of the Yulong Guo here, no idea how good it is, my Yulong Guo sounds very good
https://calidoguitars.com/store/Calido-CG-3222-CAX-Left-Handed-Solid-Cedar-Top-Lattice-Braced-Arched-Indian-Rosewood-Back-p92329291

Thanks - I saw this one and have been discussing it with Daniel at Calido who has been very helpful. I've also been exchanging messages with Rick Falkiner about the William Falkiner Australasia model - based on the same Yulong Guo design and also made in China. There'll be a 3-4 month wait for the next left-handed version but I'm leaning towards that one.

ToneControl · August 2020

GTC said:

ToneControl said:Stephen Hill makes them in Granada, he'd do a lefty, but of course more expensive

I saw a lefty "Squier" version of the Yulong Guo here, no idea how good it is, my Yulong Guo sounds very good
https://calidoguitars.com/store/Calido-CG-3222-CAX-Left-Handed-Solid-Cedar-Top-Lattice-Braced-Arched-Indian-Rosewood-Back-p92329291

Thanks - I saw this one and have been discussing it with Daniel at Calido who has been very helpful. I've also been exchanging messages with Rick Falkiner about the William Falkiner Australasia model - based on the same Yulong Guo design and also made in China. There'll be a 3-4 month wait for the next left-handed version but I'm leaning towards that one.

if you have a month, enrol in Stephen Hills guitar-making class, spend a month in Granada on the coast in spring or autumn, and make your own lefty.

His ones are the "1A" for £6k, his apprentice's models are the 2A. You would effectively get a 2A since he'd stop you messing it up, and a lovely time in Herradura. Discounted course this year €3000
https://www.europeaninstituteofguitarmaking.com/guitar-making-course-price/

GTC · August 2020

ToneControl said:
if you have a month, enrol in Stephen Hills guitar-making class, spend a month in Granada on the coast in spring or autumn, and make your own lefty.

His ones are the "1A" for £6k, his apprentice's models are the 2A. You would effectively get a 2A since he'd stop you messing it up, and a lovely time in Herradura. Discounted course this year €3000
https://www.europeaninstituteofguitarmaking.com/guitar-making-course-price/

Thanks - a very nice idea but, alas, not practical for me. I've reserved a left-handed William Falkiner - I've got plenty else to amuse me whilst waiting.

ToneControl · August 2020

GTC said:

ToneControl said:
if you have a month, enrol in Stephen Hills guitar-making class, spend a month in Granada on the coast in spring or autumn, and make your own lefty.

His ones are the "1A" for £6k, his apprentice's models are the 2A. You would effectively get a 2A since he'd stop you messing it up, and a lovely time in Herradura. Discounted course this year €3000
https://www.europeaninstituteofguitarmaking.com/guitar-making-course-price/

Thanks - a very nice idea but, alas, not practical for me. I've reserved a left-handed William Falkiner - I've got plenty else to amuse me whilst waiting.

I like the idea of going there one day

GTC · August 2020

ToneControl said:
I saw a lefty "Squier" version of the Yulong Guo here, no idea how good it is, my Yulong Guo sounds very good
https://calidoguitars.com/store/Calido-CG-3222-CAX-Left-Handed-Solid-Cedar-Top-Lattice-Braced-Arched-Indian-Rosewood-Back-p92329291

Following more exchanges with Daniel at Calido, it is basically an identical guitar to the William Falkiner Australsia - made in China to the same basic Yulong Guo design, but having the added benefit of "raised fretboard" (i.e. dropped upper body). LIke the William Falkiner, it has a solid cedar top rather than a "double top"

It was made by a recognised Chinese luthier, Mr. Liu, who was trained by Yulong Guo.

So, I've ordered it and should be here shortly - Hurricane Laura, USPS and UK Customs permitting.

Thanks for the tip - although I'd already seen it, it made me look afresh. I've cancelled my William Falkiner reservation which was only a casual reservation (no deposit required) from a batch that he already had on order from China.

ToneControl · August 2020

GTC said:

ToneControl said:
I saw a lefty "Squier" version of the Yulong Guo here, no idea how good it is, my Yulong Guo sounds very good
https://calidoguitars.com/store/Calido-CG-3222-CAX-Left-Handed-Solid-Cedar-Top-Lattice-Braced-Arched-Indian-Rosewood-Back-p92329291

Following more exchanges with Daniel at Calido, it is basically an identical guitar to the William Falkiner Australsia - made in China to the same basic Yulong Guo design, but having the added benefit of "raised fretboard" (i.e. dropped upper body). LIke the William Falkiner, it has a solid cedar top rather than a "double top"

It was made by a recognised Chinese luthier, Mr. Liu, who was trained by Yulong Guo.

So, I've ordered it and should be here shortly - Hurricane Laura, USPS and UK Customs permitting.

Thanks for the tip - although I'd already seen it, it made me look afresh. I've cancelled my William Falkiner reservation which was only a casual reservation (no deposit required) from a batch that he already had on order from China.

my Yulong Guo has a raised fretboard. It is very useful

Some people dislike the sound of a nomex double top, so an all-wood lattice is probably a safer first lattice-braced purchase.

ToneControl · September 2020

Here's Stephen Hill's bracing

Image: https://scontent.flhr3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/118662053_945024025972678_5729780512018327310_o.jpg?_nc_cat=103&_nc_sid=2d5d41&_nc_ohc=jWPI4s54cfsAX8k_k8n&_nc_ht=scontent.flhr3-1.fna&oh=2fc4ba42b05a7c19c53a2dde0066c8df&oe=5F78DDC2

GTC · September 2020

ToneControl said:
my Yulong Guo has a raised fretboard. It is very useful

Some people dislike the sound of a nomex double top, so an all-wood lattice is probably a safer first lattice-braced purchase.

The one I ordered from Texas has been sitting in UK Customs for a week

DavidR · October 2020

Hi Big. Lots of great advice already and you'll be spoilt for choice. For £750 you're not talking Luthier made at all really. Classical come in starter (low to £150'ish), student (up to £1K'ish), luthier (several K). So you should be able to get a decent student classical. Surprised no one has mentioned the Alhambra range of guitars within which you should be able to find exactly what you want. Spanish company. Also Yamaha do make fine student classicals and a trip to Yamaha London to try them out might be fun. Personal recommendation would be to try and find a Ramirez 125 Anos. Beautiful instrument and you might like the tone. Whatever you go for, try before you buy if you can. Good Luck.

TheBigDipper · October 2020

DavidR said:

Hi Big. Lots of great advice already and you'll be spoilt for choice. For £750 you're not talking Luthier made at all really. Classical come in starter (low to £150'ish), student (up to £1K'ish), luthier (several K). So you should be able to get a decent student classical. Surprised no one has mentioned the Alhambra range of guitars within which you should be able to find exactly what you want. Spanish company. Also Yamaha do make fine student classicals and a trip to Yamaha London to try them out might be fun. Personal recommendation would be to try and find a Ramirez 125 Anos. Beautiful instrument and you might like the tone. Whatever you go for, try before you buy if you can. Good Luck.

@DavidR Welcome to the FretBoard. Thanks for the good wishes and advice. I posted on 5th August (above) about my trip to Exeter the day before, and the guitars I tried. Including the Cordoba C12 which I liked so much that I bought it and brought it home.

Currently getting stuck in going through some lovely pieces and just enjoying the time I spend playing it. I'm not actually "studying" the classical guitar right now (I used to be a serious player when I was in my early teens) - just playing things for fun and without any objectives in mind. I just pick up the guitar, pick a piece and lose myself in the moment.

ToneControl · October 2020

TheBigDipper said:

DavidR said:

Hi Big. Lots of great advice already and you'll be spoilt for choice. For £750 you're not talking Luthier made at all really. Classical come in starter (low to £150'ish), student (up to £1K'ish), luthier (several K). So you should be able to get a decent student classical. Surprised no one has mentioned the Alhambra range of guitars within which you should be able to find exactly what you want. Spanish company. Also Yamaha do make fine student classicals and a trip to Yamaha London to try them out might be fun. Personal recommendation would be to try and find a Ramirez 125 Anos. Beautiful instrument and you might like the tone. Whatever you go for, try before you buy if you can. Good Luck.

@DavidR Welcome to the FretBoard. Thanks for the good wishes and advice. I posted on 5th August (above) about my trip to Exeter the day before, and the guitars I tried. Including the Cordoba C12 which I liked so much that I bought it and brought it home.

Currently getting stuck in going through some lovely pieces and just enjoying the time I spend playing it. I'm not actually "studying" the classical guitar right now (I used to be a serious player when I was in my early teens) - just playing things for fun and without any objectives in mind. I just pick up the guitar, pick a piece and lose myself in the moment.

Couldn't agree more
Playing guitar is like meditation for me

DavidR · October 2020

Congrats on Cordoba C12. Just had a quick flick through some pics of spruce top C12 on Thomann website and that's certainly a good looking instrument. Especially above averagely attractive red/white/black rosette with matching purfling. Very nice. Have fun.

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What classical guitar should I look for?

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