Fender Noiseless, bit gutless?

ROOG · September 2013

For my foray back into the 'world of guitars' a year ago I bought a fender telecaster, it is a 'Player' FSR model and apart from the nice finish it came with fender 'Noiseless' pick ups. Now, I can say that I haven't had any problems with noise, but the pick ups do seem a bit gutless.

Is this just me, are all single coils like this or is this a known side effect of these pick ups?

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2865/9661553971_650189079d_z.jpg

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2872/9661549697_0dc6dd942c_z.jpg

Yes I know it's taken me a year to ask!

octatonic · September 2013

I don't like the Fender noiseless myself- yes I find them a bit gutless.

Bung some Bareknuckle/Lollar/Fralins in it.

failed_astronaut · September 2013

Any experience with Fender Noiseless pups has been a bit disappointing for me. I was really surprised to find a deluxe Strat I played sounded thin and weak.

Nice tele though!

VimFuego · September 2013

what the others said, played a deluxe strat once with noiseless, mildly insipid.

ROOG · September 2013

octatonic said:

I don't like the Fender noiseless myself- yes I find them a bit gutless.

Bung some Bareknuckle/Lollar/Fralins in it.

Ah, assuming that it was affirmative, (that they are gutless) that was going to be my next question, should I fit something else?

Apart from the output are these likely to change the tone much?

failed_astronaut said:

Any experience with Fender Noiseless pups has been a bit disappointing for me. I was really surprised to find a deluxe Strat I played sounded thin and weak.

Nice tele though!

Ta, failed_astronaut, I was taken by the semi transparent blonde body, the 'Marmite' green scratch plate has grown on me over time.

monquixote · September 2013

I shall echo the comments of others that the noiseless stuff is a bit gutless.

ICBM · September 2013

And me too...

It's not single coils that are the problem, it's noiseless single coils.

One of the best attempts were the old Lace Sensors that came in the Plus and Deluxe series Fenders in the 80s and 90s, and even those didn't quite have the punch of real single coils.

BenSirAmos · September 2013

Not all noiseless are gutless. I'm sure my Strat Kinmans are noiseless and they is great,

Adam_MD · September 2013

I had a strat with vintage noiseless pickups in it and thought that in their quest to cut the noise they also removed frequencies that I want. I'm not sure how to describe it, I always felt they were doing an impression of a single coil but not quite getting it right.

ROOG · September 2013

Hi Chaps,

Just visited Bare knuckle site, they seem to do "Vintage" and Hi-output "Vintage Hot" and the demos of both 'Blackguard' and 'The Boss' sounded good to me, do you need the 'extra' oomph from the "Hot" pick-ups?

Adam_MD I agree, there seems to be something missing, they feel a bit lifeless.

John_P · September 2013

Sorry to go against the majority view but I've got the vintage noiseless p/ups in one of my strats and I think they sound great - but in this case I was looking for a fairly thin sound - something that was very obviously stratty and single coil sounding for clean tones.

Have you got the hot or vintage noiseless - if you prefer the noiseless option I'm sure there will be a beefier sounding set out there, if noise isn't an issue then I'd get something from Oil City or Bulldog (both of the owners contribute here and seem like nice guys that care about guitars).

I'm not sure noiseless p/ups are needed anywhere near as much as they used to be with all the big old crt monitors when recording so you have a better chance of getting away with conventional pickups.

ROOG · September 2013

Until I bought the tele, my only guitar was an LP copy which had humbuckers, I had feared the prospect of noise in making the switch to tele so I reacted by getting one with noiseless pickups, probably an overreaction in hindsight.

I mostly play at home so noise probably isn't the problem I was led to believe it might be.

I have nothing to gauge them with other than the humbuckers, (I don't own any other single coil guitar) and they are much thinner sounding than that.

I'm guessing that a 'middle ground flavoured' offering from Bare Knuckle, Oil City or Bulldog would pep things up a bit, Non?

John_P · September 2013

ROOG said:

Until I bought the tele, my only guitar was an LP copy which had humbuckers, I had feared the prospect of noise in making the switch to tele so I reacted by getting one with noiseless pickups, probably an overreaction in hindsight.
I mostly play at home so noise probably isn't the problem I was led to believe it might be.

Perhaps - if you get a conventional pickup any noise issues will be obvious - might be worth keeping the noiseless until you can compare some others....

ROOG said:
I'm guessing that a 'middle ground flavoured' offering from Bare Knuckle, Oil City or Bulldog would pep things up a bit, Non?

That sounds like a plan - welcome to the world of "is it quite as good as the sound in my head?"

jaygtr · September 2013

That sounds like a plan - welcome to the world of "is it quite as good as the sound in my head?"

Or the world of " this sounds good but could it be better?"

mike_l · September 2013

Depends on whether you're used to a thin-sounding pup already. Personally I find all S/C pups thin, and a little weak, but I'm used to higher output 'buckers.

Doesn't mean they're bad, just different to what you know.

FWIW, I believe David Gilmour deliberately uses low-output pups so he can control the sounds coming from the speakers, rather than the pup's dictating what comes from the amp/speakers.

BTW, the pup's in Sarah, my Strat are not noiseless, and are Seymour Duncans and compared to my other guitars they sound thin and weak. In a band situation (Ie when @Bigjon played it) it sounded great

bandmaster188 · September 2013

I had a fender fsr tele a few years back with the noiseless pickups and they were, well a bit plinkety plink. Upgraded them to a bkp yardbird set which really made a difference. The yardbird set use Alnico IV magnets which give a more balanced and sweeter tone than Alnico V in my opinion. But you still get plenty of tele twang on tap.

SidNewton · September 2013

Firstly, what a great looking Tele. As for the noiseless pickups I would echo the 'insipid' description. I bought an American Deluxe Tele a year or two ago and the first thing I did was replace the N3 noiseless pickups, hated them. I went for a set of Bare Knuckle flat pole 50's and at the same time removed the S1 switching and replaced it with a Callaham control plate with a 4 way switch.

I can't really tell from the pics if your Tele has the S1 switch but if it has I'd consider losing that as well as it has a reputation for 'sucking tone'.

As for the Bare Knuckles, they are great pickups. The only thing I would say about the Flat pole 50's is because the bridge pickup is high output you may find them a little unbalanced. I'm putting my Tele through a Marshall JCM 800 and it sounds huge.

stonevibe · September 2013

I have a set of Fender Vintage Hot Noiseless pickups in a Strat and they are great.

Pickups wise I have lots to choose from in my guitars and I have not had any issues with them at all. They came in a US Strat I bought a few years back and have been on loads of recordings and gigged. So I have used them for a good few years with no negatives that I can think of. Actually saying that I'm not too keen on the 'noiseless' logo but that is about it.

Live they are great as I play loud and sometimes with a lot of gain, so they come into their own there. Plus in the studio if the wiring or lighting is a bit iffy then it helps as well.

blueskunk · September 2013

Sterile pickups id say. Think the nicest strat pickups are fender 69s. Had em in my classic player and never got a bad tone from them and for me, thats saying something.

ROOG · September 2013

John_P said:

ROOG said:

Until I bought the tele, my only guitar was an LP copy which had humbuckers, I had feared the prospect of noise in making the switch to tele so I reacted by getting one with noiseless pickups, probably an overreaction in hindsight.
I mostly play at home so noise probably isn't the problem I was led to believe it might be.

Perhaps - if you get a conventional pickup any noise issues will be obvious - might be worth keeping the noiseless until you can compare some others....

ROOG said:
I'm guessing that a 'middle ground flavoured' offering from Bare Knuckle, Oil City or Bulldog would pep things up a bit, Non?

That sounds like a plan - welcome to the world of "is it quite as good as the sound in my head?"

Take your point J_P, I won't be rushing to modify it just yet, just sounding out opinion. The weak link in finding that "good sound" is definitely me, not the instrument.

ROOG · September 2013

SidNewton said:

Firstly, what a great looking Tele. As for the noiseless pickups I would echo the 'insipid' description. I bought an American Deluxe Tele a year or two ago and the first thing I did was replace the N3 noiseless pickups, hated them. I went for a set of Bare Knuckle flat pole 50's and at the same time removed the S1 switching and replaced it with a Callaham control plate with a 4 way switch.
I can't really tell from the pics if your Tele has the S1 switch but if it has I'd consider losing that as well as it has a reputation for 'sucking tone'.
As for the Bare Knuckles, they are great pickups. The only thing I would say about the Flat pole 50's is because the bridge pickup is high output you may find them a little unbalanced. I'm putting my Tele through a Marshall JCM 800 and it sounds huge.

Cheers SidNewton, Im not sure how you tell what switch it has, any advice?

ICBM · September 2013

ROOG said:
Cheers SidNewton, Im not sure how you tell what switch it has, any advice?

If it stops working, it was the S1

.

Easy actually - the S1 has a little push-in centre in the top of the volume knob.

Seriously, these can be unreliable and are a pain in the arse to change - the part only comes from Fender and is quite a complicated thing to wire up. (Less bad on the Teles than the Strats, admittedly.)

I prefer a 4- or 5-way 'superswitch' pickup selector, they're more reliable in the first place and easier to get replacements for.

ROOG · September 2013

Oooh, I'll give it a prod see if it moves!

ICBM · September 2013

If it does, I'm pretty sure it only works in the middle switch position, giving both pickups in series. This seems to be a bit of a waste of a fancy switch really, when a 4-way selector can do exactly the same thing.

On the Strats, the S1 gives either four or five completely different settings, depending on whether it's a 3SC Strat or a HSS one.

ROOG · September 2013

I spotted a vid covering the difference in sound, can't say I expected any tele to have such a feature, I consider that part of their charm is their simplicity.

stickyfiddle · September 2013

Just stopping by to say BKP Boss FTW!!

Andyjr1515 · September 2013

There is a lot of good advice here but so many different issues! FWIW - the difference between single coils and humbuckers in sound is considerable. Some people love them and some people hate them - before changing anything I would pop down to your local guitar shop and ask to listen to yours vs a standard fender or squire. That will tell you if it's single coils per-se or THOSE single coils. - that said, I find the noiseless have a little less edge...but this is going from someone who is used to and likes single coils. - if it is THOSE singles, then there are loads of great ones about...and great doesn't always mean expensive. For strats, I've fitted Kinmans (can't remember, but over £300 a set) great...and I've fitten Tonerider vintage blues (I think around £40ish) which, for 'that' sound, we're just as good Hope this helps and ignore if it doesn't! Andy

ROOG · September 2013

Thanks for all your comments, I assume that most people here have more experience in these matters than me, this is one of the reasons why I joined, so as not to suffer the pain of learning without some help, (as I did the first time around 30 yrs ago). As you've probably gathered from my OP I'm not sure it is a problem, I just wondered if I was missing something. It is all too easy to jump to the conclusion that an up grade is required with out really understanding the problem.

From my limited experience I do prefer the sound of Humbuckers and it helps that I don't seem to have to work the strings so much, to start to approach; "the sound I hear in my head". :0)

Next time Im prowling the local guitar shop I might just do as you say and try the two variants; single coils and SC noiseless side by side, to see what there is to hear.

Grateful for everyones thoughts though.

ROOG · September 2013

ICBM said:

If it does, I'm pretty sure it only works in the middle switch position, giving both pickups in series. This seems to be a bit of a waste of a fancy switch really, when a 4-way selector can do exactly the same thing.

On the Strats, the S1 gives either four or five completely different settings, depending on whether it's a 3SC Strat or a HSS one.

Checked my tele, no push function on vol knob, is that a good thig then?

ICBM · September 2013

Yes

.

If you do want the series sound - and you might, if you're finding it a bit gutless, since that essentially links the pickups a bit like a widely-spaced humbucker - you can do it with a 4-way switch.

With the 'modern' Tele wiring where the bridge is separately grounded from the pickup, I personally find it better to reverse the switch wiring - which is not only easier but also then puts the 'loud' sound at the bridge end, which is more logical to me.

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Fender Noiseless, bit gutless?

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