is humidity an issue living in the UK as far as acoustics go

sunshinewelly · July 2020

see a lot of stuff on some forums about humidifiers for acoustic guitars

is that an issue in the UK

Brize · July 2020

No.

sunshinewelly · July 2020

good thats the answer i wanted to hear

Universal8 · July 2020

I asked the same question recently. Apparently we are in a bit of a sweet spot humidity wise in the uk.

mgaw · July 2020

never bothered with any of that tbh, never had a problem

Jimbro66 · July 2020

Aren't humidifiers mainly for players living in hot dry regions? The only slight problem I've ever had is the opposite - living in a fairly humid climate which can make a nice acoustic sound a bit dead. I used to keep Zorb-IT packs in the case to help with that.

sev112 · July 2020

Middle,of summer and winter my acoustics are fine, but spring and autumn they seem to come alive and sing

artiebear · July 2020

A small caveat, beware of really aggressive central heating in winter. Personally, being a touring acoustic player, I got over the whole perfect conditions thing, just keep it's case and allow time to acclimatise at the venue has been my mantra. As for home, I have bought a couple of lovely guitars that have been badly treated and needed some TLC. As an example, I bought a s/h Bourgeois Soloist a few years ago, in the shop it sounded awful and the fret end were protruding enough to feel. The deal was good, I had an inkling that it "should" be a good guitar. It had basically been kept in a central heated dry environment. After restringing etc, I left it out on a stand in a big room with doors open onto the garden in fairly showery summer weather. Within three weeks it was unrecognisable. The board had taken on moisture ( and oil ) , no fret end issues and a dead guitar was ( and is ) singing with huge sustain. The better the guitar, the higher the respect required.

ToneControl · July 2020

yes

depends on your house and where you take the guitar

centrally heated dry houses can mess your guitar up, but are unlikely to destroy it. It just would be harder to play for 6 months every year (when the neck and top change shape), and go out of tune all the time
If you have air conditioning, that's a different game, and you should be much more concerned

If you really push it and often take a good acoustic in and out of hot rooms and cold cars you could well get some damage
I had a new acoustic with some corrugation (I think) from being stored on a stand in store that was heated only during opening hours

Lewy · July 2020

Excess humidity can lead a good acoustic to not play or sound as good as it is capable of and there’s plenty of that in the UK

Whistler · July 2020

Lewy said:

Excess humidity can lead a good acoustic to not play or sound as good as it is capable of and there’s plenty of that in the UK

Thanks, Lewy,, you have provided me with the perfect excuse: "Sorry, I just have really high humidity hands and that is what causes my playing to not sound as good as I am capable of."

CHRISB50 · July 2020

Lewy said:

Excess humidity can lead a good acoustic to not play or sound as good as it is capable of and there’s plenty of that in the UK

This.

I had to get a dehumidifier to keep my house between 45-50%.

I live next to a reservoir and it can get pretty humid. 70% was a regular reading on my hygrometers.

Some days my wife would turn the dehumidifier off. The humidity went up and it definitely affected tone.

Strat_a_tat_tat · July 2020

CHRISB50 said:

Some days my wife would turn the dehumidifier off. The humidity went up and it definitely affected tone.

Wow... now that is true dedication to musical excellence! Worrying about the tone of your dehumidifier.

You, sir, deserve to win the Internet.

CloudNine · July 2020

Low humidity is the killer. And yes, quite possible to have very low humidity in a house with central heating blasting in winter. I have regularly seen extended periods, over many weeks in winter, where humidity never gets above 30% in the house. I would not leave an expensive, lightly built acoustic guitar sitting out in that environment. It may be fine, but might not be.

It always amazes me that people look at the typical outdoors humidity and think yeah that's ok, as mentioned above, 'UK is a sweet spot' etc etc. Unless you leave your guitars outdoors, you prob should start looking at what the humidity is inside your house, where the guitars actually are.

crunchman · July 2020

CloudNine said:

Low humidity is the killer. And yes, quite possible to have very low humidity in a house with central heating blasting in winter. I have regularly seen extended periods, over many weeks in winter, where humidity never gets above 30% in the house. I would not leave an expensive, lightly built acoustic guitar sitting out in that environment. It may be fine, but might not be.

It always amazes me that people look at the typical outdoors humidity and think yeah that's ok, as mentioned above, 'UK is a sweet spot' etc etc. Unless you leave your guitars outdoors, you prob should start looking at what the humidity is inside your house, where the guitars actually are.

If you have your central heating on very high, then it may be an issue. The relative humidity is dependent on the temperature difference between indoors and outdoors. If it's 5C outside, and you cook yourself at 25C inside, then the relative humidity will be a lot lower than if you keep your house at 20C.

If you keep your heating at a sensible level (20 to 21C) then it's unlikely to be a problem in the UK, unless you are right up in Scotland. You will also have more money to spend on nice guitars, as you won;t be spending it all on heating.

CloudNine · July 2020

@crunchman I am indeed in Scotland, but would say heating at normal levels. You have used words like 'may' and 'unlikely', but I am talking about facts, where using several different hygrometers to allow for inaccuracies, they are showing extended periods below 30% humidity.

The point still remains, and you have actually highlighted it quite nicely. The question of whether 'humidity is an issue within the UK' is actually moot, and it is the humidity in the environment where the guitars are kept, that needs to be considered.

sunshinewelly · July 2020

Does leaving the guitar in a case help

CloudNine · July 2020

@sunshinewelly Definitely mate. More consistent humidity, and shielded from the greater extremes.

crunchman · July 2020

CloudNine said:

@crunchman I am indeed in Scotland, but would say heating at normal levels. You have used words like 'may' and 'unlikely', but I am talking about facts, where using several different hygrometers to allow for inaccuracies, they are showing extended periods below 30% humidity.

The point still remains, and you have actually highlighted it quite nicely. The question of whether 'humidity is an issue within the UK' is actually moot, and it is the humidity in the environment where the guitars are kept, that needs to be considered.

Compared with the South, you are likely to be 5C colder outside in winter, may be more than that. That 5C is enough to make a big difference to relative humidity. If it's 30% in Scotland, then down here, it will be fine if you don't have your central heating high.

CloudNine · July 2020

crunchman said
Compared with the South, you are likely to be 5C colder outside in winter, may be more than that. That 5C is enough to make a big difference to relative humidity. If it's 30% in Scotland, then down here, it will be fine if you don't have your central heating high.

Again, all kinds of assumptions. I think best advice is to just get a hygrometer and stop guessing what your indoor humidity might be based on what you think it is outside, as they are completely different things.

drofluf · July 2020

CloudNine said:

crunchman said
Compared with the South, you are likely to be 5C colder outside in winter, may be more than that. That 5C is enough to make a big difference to relative humidity. If it's 30% in Scotland, then down here, it will be fine if you don't have your central heating high.

Again, all kinds of assumptions. I think best advice is to just get a hygrometer and stop guessing what your indoor humidity might be based on what you think it is outside, as they are completely different things.

Sensible advice especially as they’re so cheap relative to a guitar.

Also ignore what the met office say; I’ve measured 20% difference in humidity between inside and outside.

crunchman · July 2020

drofluf said:

CloudNine said:

crunchman said
Compared with the South, you are likely to be 5C colder outside in winter, may be more than that. That 5C is enough to make a big difference to relative humidity. If it's 30% in Scotland, then down here, it will be fine if you don't have your central heating high.

Again, all kinds of assumptions. I think best advice is to just get a hygrometer and stop guessing what your indoor humidity might be based on what you think it is outside, as they are completely different things.

Sensible advice especially as they’re so cheap relative to a guitar.

Also ignore what the met office say; I’ve measured 20% difference in humidity between inside and outside.

It could be higher than that with cold weather outside and high central heating.

I've just found a graph for relative humidity in London. In January and February this year, the lowest value was 64%. A lot of the time it was over 80%. If you have your central heating at a sensible level, you are not going to be too dry in South of England. Buying a hygrometer is just a waste of money.

thermionic · July 2020

It wouldn’t be a waste of money if it told you the humidity was over 80%!

drofluf · July 2020

For the peace of mind it’s the best £6.99 that I’ve ever wasted.

ToneControl · July 2020

crunchman said:

drofluf said:

CloudNine said:

crunchman said
Compared with the South, you are likely to be 5C colder outside in winter, may be more than that. That 5C is enough to make a big difference to relative humidity. If it's 30% in Scotland, then down here, it will be fine if you don't have your central heating high.

Again, all kinds of assumptions. I think best advice is to just get a hygrometer and stop guessing what your indoor humidity might be based on what you think it is outside, as they are completely different things.

Sensible advice especially as they’re so cheap relative to a guitar.

Also ignore what the met office say; I’ve measured 20% difference in humidity between inside and outside.

It could be higher than that with cold weather outside and high central heating.

I've just found a graph for relative humidity in London. In January and February this year, the lowest value was 64%. A lot of the time it was over 80%. If you have your central heating at a sensible level, you are not going to be too dry in South of England. Buying a hygrometer is just a waste of money.

Strongly disagree

the RH (relative humidity) change when you heat air up (as it enters your house) is not a case of "subtract 20%", it's proportional to the temperature difference

when it is 0C outdoors, with 64% RH
Then once inside and warmed up to 22C, that air will be at 16.2% RH
-5C gets it down to under 12% RH
-10C gets it to 8.7% RH indoors
See this calculator: https://www.lenntech.com/calculators/humidity/relative-humidity.htm ;

In reality, because you breathe and sweat, indoor air is usually more humid than that, but it's quite possible to get RH below 30% when it's 0C and 64% RH outside

When it's -15C you should be very very careful with your guitars, even if you can't afford £5 for a hygrometer
Go round putting wet towels on radiators, etc.

crunchman · July 2020

ToneControl said:

crunchman said:

drofluf said:

CloudNine said:

crunchman said
Compared with the South, you are likely to be 5C colder outside in winter, may be more than that. That 5C is enough to make a big difference to relative humidity. If it's 30% in Scotland, then down here, it will be fine if you don't have your central heating high.

Again, all kinds of assumptions. I think best advice is to just get a hygrometer and stop guessing what your indoor humidity might be based on what you think it is outside, as they are completely different things.

Sensible advice especially as they’re so cheap relative to a guitar.

Also ignore what the met office say; I’ve measured 20% difference in humidity between inside and outside.

It could be higher than that with cold weather outside and high central heating.

I've just found a graph for relative humidity in London. In January and February this year, the lowest value was 64%. A lot of the time it was over 80%. If you have your central heating at a sensible level, you are not going to be too dry in South of England. Buying a hygrometer is just a waste of money.

Strongly disagree

the RH (relative humidity) change when you heat air up (as it enters your house) is not a case of "subtract 20%", it's proportional to the temperature difference

when it is 0C outdoors, with 64% RH
Then once inside and warmed up to 22C, that air will be at 16.2% RH
-5C gets it down to under 12% RH
-10C gets it to 8.7% RH indoors
See this calculator: https://www.lenntech.com/calculators/humidity/relative-humidity.htm ;

In reality, because you breathe and sweat, indoor air is usually more humid than that, but it's quite possible to get RH below 30% when it's 0C and 64% RH outside

When it's -15C you should be very very careful with your guitars, even if you can't afford £5 for a hygrometer
Go round putting wet towels on radiators, etc.

Scotland may be different, but in the South of England, it's rarely below 0C. -10C is unheard of where I live, let alone -15C. For London, where I live, the coldest month is January, with an average temperature of 5C.

Even with your central heating set at 22C, which I would find unbearably hot, a more normal relative humidity outside of 75% gives 26% inside according to that calculator, with the outside air at 5C. Allowing for the moisture we breathe out, and drying clothes indoors etc, it's not going to drop below 30% for any extended period of time, if it does at all.

If you have your central heating at a more sensible temperature, then it's not an issue in the South of England.

Like I said above, in Scotland it's colder so things are different, so it may well be different for you, especially if you pay the extra to cook yourself with your central heating.

malcolmkindness · July 2020

I always thought that humidity was not an issue in these islands until a few years ago a bridge pulled explosively from a high end Irish made guitar, apparently due to dryness.
Since then I have been much more careful and use a hygrometer to keep a check on things.
Seeing this issue come up again quite controversially, I decided to check the historical values on my digital hygrometer. I don't know the exact time period involved, presumably from the last time I changed the battery, but my my well heated, well ventilated house has experienced an all time high of 73% and an all time low of 27%.

ToneControl · July 2020

crunchman said:

ToneControl said:

crunchman said:

drofluf said:

CloudNine said:

crunchman said
Compared with the South, you are likely to be 5C colder outside in winter, may be more than that. That 5C is enough to make a big difference to relative humidity. If it's 30% in Scotland, then down here, it will be fine if you don't have your central heating high.

Again, all kinds of assumptions. I think best advice is to just get a hygrometer and stop guessing what your indoor humidity might be based on what you think it is outside, as they are completely different things.

Sensible advice especially as they’re so cheap relative to a guitar.

Also ignore what the met office say; I’ve measured 20% difference in humidity between inside and outside.

It could be higher than that with cold weather outside and high central heating.

I've just found a graph for relative humidity in London. In January and February this year, the lowest value was 64%. A lot of the time it was over 80%. If you have your central heating at a sensible level, you are not going to be too dry in South of England. Buying a hygrometer is just a waste of money.

Strongly disagree

the RH (relative humidity) change when you heat air up (as it enters your house) is not a case of "subtract 20%", it's proportional to the temperature difference

when it is 0C outdoors, with 64% RH
Then once inside and warmed up to 22C, that air will be at 16.2% RH
-5C gets it down to under 12% RH
-10C gets it to 8.7% RH indoors
See this calculator: https://www.lenntech.com/calculators/humidity/relative-humidity.htm ;

In reality, because you breathe and sweat, indoor air is usually more humid than that, but it's quite possible to get RH below 30% when it's 0C and 64% RH outside

When it's -15C you should be very very careful with your guitars, even if you can't afford £5 for a hygrometer
Go round putting wet towels on radiators, etc.

Scotland may be different, but in the South of England, it's rarely below 0C. -10C is unheard of where I live, let alone -15C. For London, where I live, the coldest month is January, with an average temperature of 5C.

Even with your central heating set at 22C, which I would find unbearably hot, a more normal relative humidity outside of 75% gives 26% inside according to that calculator, with the outside air at 5C. Allowing for the moisture we breathe out, and drying clothes indoors etc, it's not going to drop below 30% for any extended period of time, if it does at all.

If you have your central heating at a more sensible temperature, then it's not an issue in the South of England.

Like I said above, in Scotland it's colder so things are different, so it may well be different for you, especially if you pay the extra to cook yourself with your central heating.

Anything under 40% is not good for your guitar, and will affect the tone and playability, even if permanent damage is less likely than below 30%

much of Southern England drops below 0C, we're not concerned about averages here, but extremes.
I worked in London for a year, and it was regularly well under 5C
I drove to Surrey once through -13C areas covered in snow. A few days at that temperature and central heating or a wood burning stove could be very harmful

btw for anyone living in apartments with air conditioning, you have a lot more to worry about. AC takes most of the water out of the air. Very few systems replace it.

drofluf · July 2020

ToneControl said:

crunchman said:

drofluf said:

CloudNine said:

crunchman said
Compared with the South, you are likely to be 5C colder outside in winter, may be more than that. That 5C is enough to make a big difference to relative humidity. If it's 30% in Scotland, then down here, it will be fine if you don't have your central heating high.

Again, all kinds of assumptions. I think best advice is to just get a hygrometer and stop guessing what your indoor humidity might be based on what you think it is outside, as they are completely different things.

Sensible advice especially as they’re so cheap relative to a guitar.

Also ignore what the met office say; I’ve measured 20% difference in humidity between inside and outside.

It could be higher than that with cold weather outside and high central heating.

I've just found a graph for relative humidity in London. In January and February this year, the lowest value was 64%. A lot of the time it was over 80%. If you have your central heating at a sensible level, you are not going to be too dry in South of England. Buying a hygrometer is just a waste of money.

Strongly disagree

the RH (relative humidity) change when you heat air up (as it enters your house) is not a case of "subtract 20%", it's proportional to the temperature difference

when it is 0C outdoors, with 64% RH
Then once inside and warmed up to 22C, that air will be at 16.2% RH
-5C gets it down to under 12% RH
-10C gets it to 8.7% RH indoors
See this calculator: https://www.lenntech.com/calculators/humidity/relative-humidity.htm ;

In reality, because you breathe and sweat, indoor air is usually more humid than that, but it's quite possible to get RH below 30% when it's 0C and 64% RH outside

When it's -15C you should be very very careful with your guitars, even if you can't afford £5 for a hygrometer
Go round putting wet towels on radiators, etc.

Sorry if I was unclear; I’d once measured a 20% between outside, which was close to the figure on the met office forecast, and inside.

Was just trying to say don’t use the met office figure for outside and assume that it will be the same inside.

ToneControl · July 2020

drofluf said:

ToneControl said:

crunchman said:

drofluf said:

CloudNine said:

crunchman said
Compared with the South, you are likely to be 5C colder outside in winter, may be more than that. That 5C is enough to make a big difference to relative humidity. If it's 30% in Scotland, then down here, it will be fine if you don't have your central heating high.

Again, all kinds of assumptions. I think best advice is to just get a hygrometer and stop guessing what your indoor humidity might be based on what you think it is outside, as they are completely different things.

Sensible advice especially as they’re so cheap relative to a guitar.

Also ignore what the met office say; I’ve measured 20% difference in humidity between inside and outside.

It could be higher than that with cold weather outside and high central heating.

I've just found a graph for relative humidity in London. In January and February this year, the lowest value was 64%. A lot of the time it was over 80%. If you have your central heating at a sensible level, you are not going to be too dry in South of England. Buying a hygrometer is just a waste of money.

Strongly disagree

the RH (relative humidity) change when you heat air up (as it enters your house) is not a case of "subtract 20%", it's proportional to the temperature difference

when it is 0C outdoors, with 64% RH
Then once inside and warmed up to 22C, that air will be at 16.2% RH
-5C gets it down to under 12% RH
-10C gets it to 8.7% RH indoors
See this calculator: https://www.lenntech.com/calculators/humidity/relative-humidity.htm ;

In reality, because you breathe and sweat, indoor air is usually more humid than that, but it's quite possible to get RH below 30% when it's 0C and 64% RH outside

When it's -15C you should be very very careful with your guitars, even if you can't afford £5 for a hygrometer
Go round putting wet towels on radiators, etc.

Sorry if I was unclear; I’d once measured a 20% between outside, which was close to the figure on the met office forecast, and inside.

Was just trying to say don’t use the met office figure for outside and assume that it will be the same inside.

agreed
I just didn't want people subtracting 20
in fact best to just buy the detectors really

CloudNine · July 2020

There are always a number of people on these threads, who believe that measuring (hell, even thinking about) humidity is an attack on British values, and should not be condoned. There is literally nothing that can be said that will convince them that any corner of these isles has ever been infiltrated by even a puff of air, either too moist or too dry for a guitar, and mere facts will not diminish this unshakeble belief.

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is humidity an issue living in the UK as far as acoustics go

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