Theory online learning

viz · April 2020

Yep but you can reimagine them with new chords. So like instead of ii-V-I you’d have II-V-I.

hotpickups · April 2020

viz said:

Yep but you can reimagine them with new chords. So like instead of ii-V-I you’d have II-V-I.

Ah ok cool I’ll give that a go . Thanks Viz

octatonic · April 2020

viz said:

Yep but you can reimagine them with new chords. So like instead of ii-V-I you’d have II-V-I.

My favourite is III - I.

Gooooldfinger.

viz · April 2020

octatonic said:

viz said:

Yep but you can reimagine them with new chords. So like instead of ii-V-I you’d have II-V-I.

My favourite is III - I.

Gooooldfinger.

Yep that’s gorgeous, but not based on a diatonic mode (i know you know this). I similarly love i - biii (well, i-vi) - there’s a song by Emma Bunton that uses this rather effectively, forgotten what it’s called.

octatonic · April 2020

viz said:

octatonic said:

viz said:

Yep but you can reimagine them with new chords. So like instead of ii-V-I you’d have II-V-I.

My favourite is III - I.

Gooooldfinger.

Yep that’s gorgeous, but not based on a diatonic mode (i know you know this). I similarly love i - biii

Very nice too.

hotpickups · April 2020

Having slept on it I was just wondering if anyone knows of any good links for some tasty modal licks though. Yeah I could sit around hours on end trying come up with them and yes I have plenty of time at the moment but I'd still find it boring. I'd rather find a lick and perfect it in the time tbh

viz · April 2020

Here’s a brilliant mixolydian/dorian (depending on whether you hear it as major or minor) lick by Al di Meola, starting at 4:00 - only 13 seconds long but should keep you busy!

https://youtu.be/6yBMkNL30xg

hotpickups · April 2020

viz said:

Here’s a brilliant mixolydian/dorian (depending on whether you hear it as major or minor) lick by Al di Meola, starting at 4:00 - only 13 seconds long but should keep you busy!

https://youtu.be/6yBMkNL30xg

Lol nice. I have to admit I prefer to work from a visual perspective so I can see those notes implemented in my usual pentatonic boxes I use. Didn’t really want to relearn a whole new box system if you know what I mean. In other words there’s only so far I want to go with it all as I won’t be conquering any great musical ground for the world not at my age lol

ArchtopDave · April 2020

hotpickups said:

viz said:

Here’s a brilliant mixolydian/dorian (depending on whether you hear it as major or minor) lick by Al di Meola, starting at 4:00 - only 13 seconds long but should keep you busy!

https://youtu.be/6yBMkNL30xg

Lol nice. I have to admit I prefer to work from a visual perspective so I can see those notes implemented in my usual pentatonic boxes I use. Didn’t really want to relearn a whole new box system if you know what I mean. In other words there’s only so far I want to go with it all as I won’t be conquering any great musical ground for the world not at my age lol

I look at having a knowledge of music theory somewhat differently in that it allows you to entirely dispense with "boxes" and "fretboard patterns", and instead gives you the freedom to roam over the whole fretboard.

hotpickups · April 2020

ArchtopDave said:

hotpickups said:

viz said:

Here’s a brilliant mixolydian/dorian (depending on whether you hear it as major or minor) lick by Al di Meola, starting at 4:00 - only 13 seconds long but should keep you busy!

https://youtu.be/6yBMkNL30xg

Lol nice. I have to admit I prefer to work from a visual perspective so I can see those notes implemented in my usual pentatonic boxes I use. Didn’t really want to relearn a whole new box system if you know what I mean. In other words there’s only so far I want to go with it all as I won’t be conquering any great musical ground for the world not at my age lol

I look at having a knowledge of music theory somewhat differently in that it allows you to entirely dispense with "boxes" and "fretboard patterns", and instead gives you the freedom to roam over the whole fretboard.

I couldn't imagine not having a visual fretboard reference to go by

Fifty9 · April 2020

ArchtopDave said:

hotpickups said:

viz said:

Here’s a brilliant mixolydian/dorian (depending on whether you hear it as major or minor) lick by Al di Meola, starting at 4:00 - only 13 seconds long but should keep you busy!

https://youtu.be/6yBMkNL30xg

Lol nice. I have to admit I prefer to work from a visual perspective so I can see those notes implemented in my usual pentatonic boxes I use. Didn’t really want to relearn a whole new box system if you know what I mean. In other words there’s only so far I want to go with it all as I won’t be conquering any great musical ground for the world not at my age lol

I look at having a knowledge of music theory somewhat differently in that it allows you to entirely dispense with "boxes" and "fretboard patterns", and instead gives you the freedom to roam over the whole fretboard.

Are you basically saying a 12 fret box? That instead of ‘zooming in’ on a box shape that spans 3 or 4 frets that you’ve effectively zoomed out and can visualise how the scale pattern repeats over a wider area?

hotpickups · April 2020

Fifty9 said:

ArchtopDave said:

hotpickups said:

viz said:

Here’s a brilliant mixolydian/dorian (depending on whether you hear it as major or minor) lick by Al di Meola, starting at 4:00 - only 13 seconds long but should keep you busy!

https://youtu.be/6yBMkNL30xg

Lol nice. I have to admit I prefer to work from a visual perspective so I can see those notes implemented in my usual pentatonic boxes I use. Didn’t really want to relearn a whole new box system if you know what I mean. In other words there’s only so far I want to go with it all as I won’t be conquering any great musical ground for the world not at my age lol

I look at having a knowledge of music theory somewhat differently in that it allows you to entirely dispense with "boxes" and "fretboard patterns", and instead gives you the freedom to roam over the whole fretboard.

Are you basically saying a 12 fret box? That instead of ‘zooming in’ on a box shape that spans 3 or 4 frets that you’ve effectively zoomed out and can visualise how the scale pattern repeats over a wider area?

Not exactly. Sometimes that’s worse. I mean a grouped area that can give up a cool luck that one can use? A fast one or slower one. But I’d like it be in relation to a box I already know for reference etc

Im not into him but the way Chris buck flies around the board sometimes, I can see some of his shapes basically blues boxes but some of it isn’t imo.

TforTele · April 2020

I’m a learner in this stuff, but maybe try “So What” for a simple Dorian thing.

Main thing applying modes, if I understand it, is to bring out the intervals characteristic of that mode. So for Dorian the 6th / flat 7th and a flat 3rd. So just one extra note to add to your minor pentatonic box.

hotpickups · April 2020

TforTele said:

I’m a learner in this stuff, but maybe try “So What” for a simple Dorian thing.

Main thing applying modes, if I understand it, is to bring out the intervals characteristic of that mode. So for Dorian the 6th / flat 7th and a flat 3rd. So just one extra note to add to your minor pentatonic box.

....and a major 2nd I believe for dorian

GuyBoden · April 2020

TforTele said:

I’m a learner in this stuff, but maybe try “So What” for a simple Dorian thing.

Main thing applying modes, if I understand it, is to bring out the intervals characteristic of that mode. So for Dorian the 6th / flat 7th and a flat 3rd. So just one extra note to add to your minor pentatonic box.

It sounds better to my ears, if the modal chords include the character notes of the scale.

Chord Harmony is the key, the single note lines need good harmony to sound good, IMHO.

TforTele · April 2020

hotpickups said:

TforTele said:

I’m a learner in this stuff, but maybe try “So What” for a simple Dorian thing.

Main thing applying modes, if I understand it, is to bring out the intervals characteristic of that mode. So for Dorian the 6th / flat 7th and a flat 3rd. So just one extra note to add to your minor pentatonic box.

....and a major 2nd I believe for dorian

Yes, but the thing is it’s a minor key and...

”It keep the 6 (Major 6th) which is it's main characteristic”
https://www.justinguitar.com/guitar-lessons/the-dorian-mode-sc-512

Try So What and it’s clear - nice tune, too! I think I have some tab somewhere.

hotpickups · April 2020

Why would you say that that riff is typical Dorian @TforTele ? It’s in A major / F# Minor but Dorian notes aren’t in that riff as far as I can tell? Except the 6th but isn’t that a minor 6th in that song ?

EDIT oh friggin’ hec this is why I hate modes and usually drop the idea after a while

TforTele · April 2020

hotpickups said:

Why would you say that that riff is typical Dorian @TforTele ? It’s in A major / F# Minor but Dorian notes aren’t in that riff as far as I can tell? Except the 6th but isn’t that a minor 6th in that song ?

EDIT oh friggin’ hec this is why I hate modes and usually drop the idea after a while

As I learnt it (which was in this context, hence thinking it potentially helpful) all the notes played are notes of the C Major scale. What makes it Dorian is that it all starts on the D. So you get a particular set of intervals. Try playing the notes D, A, B, C, D (octave), E, C, D, followed by the chords G and F. Then shift up a semitone (including the chords). Sorry, I realise notation would be more useful!

The 6th is major, which distinguishes it from the natural minor (Aeolian).

Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/So_What_(Miles_Davis_composition)

You might play it with your D root on the fifth string (with D shape chords) or the sixth string (with A shape chords).

Rick Beato seems to be the guy for modes stuff on Youtube.

(I've been told) modes are just sub-scales of a scale - here of the Diatonic Major.

viz · April 2020

hotpickups said:

Why would you say that that riff is typical Dorian @TforTele ? It’s in A major / F# Minor but Dorian notes aren’t in that riff as far as I can tell? Except the 6th but isn’t that a minor 6th in that song ?

Nope it’s a major 6th.

Here’s a flow chart:

https://i.imgur.com/kGMkVKi.jpg

This version is in D (well, D Dorian); maybe you’re not identifying the home note correctly (D) which is then confusing all your intervals?

https://youtu.be/ylXk1LBvIqU

The stand-out (major) 6th can be heard in the upper of the two chords in the harmony.

hotpickups · April 2020

TforTele said:

hotpickups said:

Why would you say that that riff is typical Dorian @TforTele ? It’s in A major / F# Minor but Dorian notes aren’t in that riff as far as I can tell? Except the 6th but isn’t that a minor 6th in that song ?

EDIT oh friggin’ hec this is why I hate modes and usually drop the idea after a while

As I learnt it (which was in this context, hence thinking it potentially helpful) all the notes played are notes of the C Major scale. What makes it Dorian is that it all starts on the D. So you get a particular set of intervals. Try playing the notes D, A, B, C, D (octave), E, C, D, followed by the chords G and F. Then shift up a semitone (including the chords). Sorry, I realise notation would be more useful!

The 6th is major, which distinguishes it from the natural minor (Aeolian).

Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/So_What_(Miles_Davis_composition)

You might play it with your D root on the fifth string (with D shape chords) or the sixth string (with A shape chords).

Rick Beato seems to be the guy for modes stuff on Youtube.

(I've been told) modes are just sub-scales of a scale - here of the Diatonic Major.

Blimey now you’ve lost me

hotpickups · April 2020

viz said:

hotpickups said:

Why would you say that that riff is typical Dorian @TforTele ? It’s in A major / F# Minor but Dorian notes aren’t in that riff as far as I can tell? Except the 6th but isn’t that a minor 6th in that song ?

Nope it’s a major 6th.

Here’s a flow chart:

https://i.imgur.com/kGMkVKi.jpg

Yeah that’s what I thought. I thought I heard a minor 6 in that song. I must’ve been listening to a different key version

viz · April 2020

hotpickups said:

Yeah that’s what I thought. I thought I heard a minor 6 in that song. I must’ve been listening to a different key version

Fair enough, well anyhoo it’s deffo a major 6th. If you were playing it on the guitar in the blues box at fret 10, the motif would be

x x x 12 12 x
x x x 10 10 x

the 12th fret on the B string is that Dorian 6th.

TforTele · April 2020

hotpickups said:Blimey now you’ve lost me

Really sorry, I'm probably not explaining it well. I suspect it is much easier to grasp with pen and paper / whiteboard. If you do try playing the riff you'll get the characteristic sound/feel, with is what matters a the end of the day!

"D, A, B, C, D (octave), E, C, D, followed by the chords G and F. Then shift up a semitone (including the chords)."

Climb up from the root (D), then drop down for the C and up to finish on the D octave. Dada, dada, dada, da da. It's nice. It's Miles!

hotpickups · May 2020

antonyiv said:

I can recommend this course: https://truefire.com/guitar-lessons/street-theory-for-guitarists/C1163

There are some really good courses on Truefire for CAGED system and more advanced theory as well.

@antonyiv I'm thinking of going for this course now too. So you recommend it ?

antonyiv · May 2020

hotpickups said:

antonyiv said:

I can recommend this course: https://truefire.com/guitar-lessons/street-theory-for-guitarists/C1163

There are some really good courses on Truefire for CAGED system and more advanced theory as well.

@antonyiv I'm thinking of going for this course now too. So you recommend it ?

IMHO it is a very good course and now is on sale. I don't think you can go wrong for 25 dollars. Having said that, sometimes theory such as CAGED positions and inversions could be boring and some people quit and start blaming teachers and courses instead of their lack of patience.

hotpickups · May 2020

antonyiv said:

hotpickups said:

antonyiv said:

I can recommend this course: https://truefire.com/guitar-lessons/street-theory-for-guitarists/C1163

There are some really good courses on Truefire for CAGED system and more advanced theory as well.

@antonyiv I'm thinking of going for this course now too. So you recommend it ?

IMHO it is a very good course and now is on sale. I don't think you can go wrong for 25 dollars. Having said that, sometimes theory such as CAGED positions and inversions could be boring and some people quit and start blaming teachers and courses instead of their lack of patience.

Lol not me I love a bit of pain and boredom sometimes. Getting used to it over the past 2 months .

Thanks for getting back to me

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