Acoustic Shape/Wood Combo Recomendations

artiebear · December 2019

ToneControl said:

dean111music said:

This is the nicest sounding vid!

Best tone.

Although it’s breaking up
https://youtu.be/ykVXuLSubQQ

do you play with a pick?
I'd advise avoiding adirondack if you play with nails, it needs hitting hard to move the wood

Then again, my Sobell is Adirondack / braz, is as responsive as it gets, and I haven't used a plectrum on it in the 12 years I've had it, plus that's not been my experience with 000 and smaller Adi guitars by Martin and Collings. As i said earlier there are no absolutes. Also check out a Lowden Pierre Bensusan sig model ( Adi / Honduran rosewood ) I've been lucky enough to spend extended time with two of them and am still very tempted to get one for myself they are wonderful finger style guitars.

ToneControl · December 2019

artiebear said:

ToneControl said:

dean111music said:

This is the nicest sounding vid!

Best tone.

Although it’s breaking up
https://youtu.be/ykVXuLSubQQ

do you play with a pick?
I'd advise avoiding adirondack if you play with nails, it needs hitting hard to move the wood

Then again, my Sobell is Adirondack / braz, is as responsive as it gets, and I haven't used a plectrum on it in the 12 years I've had it, plus that's not been my experience with 000 and smaller Adi guitars by Martin and Collings. As i said earlier there are no absolutes. Also check out a Lowden Pierre Bensusan sig model ( Adi / Honduran rosewood ) I've been lucky enough to spend extended time with two of them and am still very tempted to get one for myself they are wonderful finger style guitars.

interesting, I've had 2 Adi-topped guitars, found it hard to get the full sound out of them with my nails
Reading around, it's a stiffer wood, and harder to make work for fingerstyle, especially on larger-bodied guitars

artiebear · December 2019

ToneControl said:

artiebear said:

ToneControl said:

dean111music said:

This is the nicest sounding vid!

Best tone.

Although it’s breaking up
https://youtu.be/ykVXuLSubQQ

do you play with a pick?
I'd advise avoiding adirondack if you play with nails, it needs hitting hard to move the wood

Then again, my Sobell is Adirondack / braz, is as responsive as it gets, and I haven't used a plectrum on it in the 12 years I've had it, plus that's not been my experience with 000 and smaller Adi guitars by Martin and Collings. As i said earlier there are no absolutes. Also check out a Lowden Pierre Bensusan sig model ( Adi / Honduran rosewood ) I've been lucky enough to spend extended time with two of them and am still very tempted to get one for myself they are wonderful finger style guitars.

interesting, I've had 2 Adi-topped guitars, found it hard to get the full sound out of them with my nails
Reading around, it's a stiffer wood, and harder to make work for fingerstyle, especially on larger-bodied guitars

I get what your saying, an new Adi topped dread |(trying to get that pre war vibe ) is going to take some moving as Adi takes a while to open ( the very opposite end of the scale from Englemann, which some unscrupulous wood dealers passed off as European to unsuspecting builders ). I think that in Stefan Sobell case, even though my guitar is a 16" lower bout and a 25.6 " scale length, it's about his very individual approach to bracing which produces a quite accentuated arch across the top ( andd the back for that matter, almost like a skin stretched across a snare. Subsequently, it can purr with 12's on it, but still work as a finger style power house with 13's on.
In George's case,, his bracing designs and, like Stefan and all top builders a respect for the wood they are using. Interestingly, the fact that George designed Bensusan's newer Adi sig model as an F sized guitar, rather than Pierre's cedar topped O size "old lady", would suggest that he goes along with smaller works better for Adi within his design parameters. If you get a chance try the PB sig, would be interesting to know what you think.

dean111music · December 2019

https://youtu.be/ApqAcE5zL94

I think in this video he said it took a lot of playing and 2 years to open up

dean111music · December 2019

I wonder if George would build him a cedar/Blackwood this time

artiebear · December 2019

dean111music said:

https://youtu.be/ApqAcE5zL94

I think in this video he said it took a lot of playing and 2 years to open up

I would imagine that it was quite an effort for him to adapt after playing his cedar/mahogany old lady since at least early 80's. Having seen him play live a few times, It would be interesting to get his specific definition of opening up, as I have never seen anyone so physically involved in his instrument, one minute almost hugging it to dampen certain frequencies to really snapping back on the strings to get the most. Wonderful player and a really nice guy. The PB sigs I had time with were both played in, but less than 18 months old, they were certainly getting there, however, it would be great to see how they continue to develop. I would say that a couple of years is fair for any spruce topped guitar, however, it will go on changing for a long long time beyond that. My adi / braz Sobell has changed a lot over the 12 years or so I have been playing it, not so much in volume and Dynamics but more in a shift to slightly high mids while keeping a round treble and defined bass.

dean111music · December 2019

So I think I need to try as many wood combos as possible however im leaning now towards either Cedar/rosewood or walnut or a spruce/rosewood.

im deciding that lowden is my best bet as there are so many around and I have always loved them. Eric Roche taught me at ACM and to hear his lowden for the first time was a very memorable moment.

lowden S or F shape, bevel or FM.
need to go and try

artiebear · December 2019

dean111music said:

So I think I need to try as many wood combos as possible however im leaning now towards either Cedar/rosewood or walnut or a spruce/rosewood.

im deciding that lowden is my best bet as there are so many around and I have always loved them. Eric Roche taught me at ACM and to hear his lowden for the first time was a very memorable moment.

lowden S or F shape, bevel or FM.
need to go and try

Sounds good, Eric is a big miss to the guitar scene.

ToneControl · December 2019

artiebear said:

dean111music said:

https://youtu.be/ApqAcE5zL94

I think in this video he said it took a lot of playing and 2 years to open up

I would imagine that it was quite an effort for him to adapt after playing his cedar/mahogany old lady since at least early 80's. Having seen him play live a few times, It would be interesting to get his specific definition of opening up, as I have never seen anyone so physically involved in his instrument, one minute almost hugging it to dampen certain frequencies to really snapping back on the strings to get the most. Wonderful player and a really nice guy. The PB sigs I had time with were both played in, but less than 18 months old, they were certainly getting there, however, it would be great to see how they continue to develop. I would say that a couple of years is fair for any spruce topped guitar, however, it will go on changing for a long long time beyond that. My adi / braz Sobell has changed a lot over the 12 years or so I have been playing it, not so much in volume and Dynamics but more in a shift to slightly high mids while keeping a round treble and defined bass.

btw, in case anyone didn't hear the story, I heard that the initial commercial success of Lowden was based on PB playing one, and other people wanting them because of that.

dean111music · December 2019

So far I have these recommendations from luthiers and experiences

spruce/mahogany - best to hear percussive sounds, pickups well, sensitive to dynamics

cedar/walnut - most clarity for fingerstyle

redwood/Blackwood - best all rounder for warmth and clarity

spruce/rosewood - most versatile, has bold sound than can work well with vocals and solo guitar, good headroom for flat picking, Deeper bass and metallic Highs compared to spruce/mahogany

dean111music · January 2020

Above seems good place to start?

CarpeDiem · January 2020

Your suggested place to start sounds good. It may also be worth trying a fan fret Lowden, as this may be easier to play with your RSI.

crunchman · January 2020

Woods are important, but the construction and bracing are probably more important.

If you are after a small bodied guitar, Brook make some of the best sounding small guitars I've heard. They are another British builder worth looking into. Their standard neck profile won't be to everyone's taste (shallow neck with flat fingerboard) but I'm sure you could get what you wanted if you custom ordered.

dean111music · January 2020

CarpeDiem said:

Your suggested place to start sounds good. It may also be worth trying a fan fret Lowden, as this may be easier to play with your RSI.

Yes I will try a fan fret too.

i think how I hold the guitar might help.., classical position with either F Shape with bevel or buy an FM which is much less depth.

i think the bevel option will give me the depth of sound but easier on the right hand. PB actually talks about how he started to have neck aches and arm problems and his sig was designed on helping him.

or there is the S shape

shorter scale length also better for RSI?

CarpeDiem · January 2020

dean111music said:

CarpeDiem said:

Your suggested place to start sounds good. It may also be worth trying a fan fret Lowden, as this may be easier to play with your RSI.

Yes I will try a fan fret too.

i think how I hold the guitar might help.., classical position with either F Shape with bevel or buy an FM which is much less depth.

i think the bevel option will give me the depth of sound but easier on the right hand. PB actually talks about how he started to have neck aches and arm problems and his sig was designed on helping him.

or there is the S shape shorter scale length also better for RSI?

I'm not an expert on RSI, it's just that I found a fan fret surprisingly easy and comfortable to play when I tried one. I also suspect that a smaller guitar may work better for you. It would be worth you trying out a variety to see and hear what works best for you. What appears best on paper, isn't necessarily the best in my experience.

ToneControl · January 2020

dean111music said:

CarpeDiem said:

Your suggested place to start sounds good. It may also be worth trying a fan fret Lowden, as this may be easier to play with your RSI.

Yes I will try a fan fret too.

i think how I hold the guitar might help.., classical position with either F Shape with bevel or buy an FM which is much less depth.

i think the bevel option will give me the depth of sound but easier on the right hand. PB actually talks about how he started to have neck aches and arm problems and his sig was designed on helping him.

or there is the S shape shorter scale length also better for RSI?

I'm not sure a shorter scale length would help RSI

I'd recommend buying this first anyway:

On a comfy settee with a small guitar, I use it on my right leg, and cross my legs
With a larger guitar I use it slightly further from me to not raise the guitar, and usually don't cross my legs

with this, I get a lot less problems with aches and pains playing guitar, and no longer need to workon positioning the guitar whilst playing

artiebear · January 2020

I had some carpal tunnel issues quite along time ago which was very painful and frustrating. For along time now, I've been a bit of a workout freak (not pumping iron etc), but just a 1/2 hour upper body workout which I have adapted to include working of shoulders, arms and hands. So long as I do all that, I get less issues. If i take a day or two off, I start getting some pain after a few hours playing. The worst was during a 15 gig tour, where I took my own car for various reasons, and was driving every day as well as playing, I got home firstly in agony, then more worryingly feeling some numbness in my left hand pinky. couldn't get on with my slimmer neck guitars at all but found salvation in picking up a couple of guitars with big D shape necks that I could wrap around, suddenly less pain and gradually back to normal.
I still feel less tired, and a whole lot more comfortable with a fuller neck these days as opposed to a slim C shape.

GTC · January 2020

I've played a fan fret and I can't see how that would help an RSI problem.

However, the use of good playing technique with a properly set-up guitar and the use of a good guitar support (like the Dynarette) could help greatly. For greatest benefit, both feet should be flat on the ground when using a support.

The Dynarette is probably the most flexible for switching between different guitars but I think the leather Neck-up is more flexible in adjustment for a particular guitar. I'm also just experimenting with a wooden Playwood support which I think will work well with a couple of simple modifications.

After trying them, I avoid the metal supports commonly used in classical circles as it is too easy to end up scratching the guitar's side without care.

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Acoustic Shape/Wood Combo Recomendations

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