Little revelation about sharps and flats

Blueingreen · November 2019

The way I instinctively work this out with a guitar in my hand is:

Start on C (bottom E string).

flat keys: go up to the 5 string (F, 1 flat) down 2 frets and back on to the 6 (Bb, 2 flats) and carry on that pattern of up to the fith string, then down 2 frets on the 6th.

sharp keys: Up 2 frets on to the 5th string (G, 1 sharp), down to the 6th (D. 2 sharps) then repeat the pattern up the fretboard, up 2 on the 5th string and down to the 6th.

Put it in words and it sounds more complicated, but it couldn't be simpler. You'll quickly start remembering F is one flat and G is one sharp (if you don't know it already), so you'll always know how to start.

viz · June 2020

Hello all! An update from me.

I decided to get my little idea made out of wood; they just arrived from Japan this morning, and they’re lovely!

What do you think?

https://youtu.be/m9KOuQmNXD0

bloodandtears · June 2020

very cool, father's day presents all round??

Jalapeno · June 2020

Like it - could just learn the circle of 4ths/5ths once and for all of course

viz · June 2020

Jalapeno said:

Like it - could just learn the circle of 4ths/5ths once and for all of course

Of course!

mart · June 2020

So, what key are we playing Stairway in today? Hmm, let me just roll the dice ...

viz · June 2020

mart said:

So, what key are we playing Stairway in today? Hmm, let me just roll the dice ...

Haha though that reminds me, I’m going to get some made for minor keys, in a darker wood. Cheers!

mart · June 2020

viz said:

mart said:

So, what key are we playing Stairway in today? Hmm, let me just roll the dice ...

Haha though that reminds me, I’m going to get some made for minor keys, in a darker wood. Cheers!

Love it!

GuyBoden · June 2020

Good stuff, that's a new approach.

The following was the method I found for myself many years ago to see key signatures. I see the flats of keys on the fretboard across in fourths, each subsequent fret adds another note to the key in the cycle of fourths (fifths).

I see the flats of keys on the fretboard across in fourths. (Low to high string.)

F = Bb

Bb = Bb Eb

Eb = Bb Eb Ab

Ab = Bb Eb Ab Db

Db = Bb Eb Ab Db Gb

Gb = Bb Eb Ab Db Gb Cb

I see the sharps of keys on the fretboard across in fourths backwards (fifths). (High to low string.)

G = F#

D = F# C#

A = F# C# G#

E = F# C# G# D#

B = F# C# G# D# A#

F# = F# C# G# D# A# E#

So, the flat key signatures go across the fretboard from the Bb at the 6th fret in fourths. The sharp go in reverse from the F# at the 2nd fret in inverted fourths (fifths). See the diagram below.

Image: https://d28z68mqtlsfzd.cloudfront.net/app/uploads/2019/07/19153849/guitar-fretboard-notes-diagram.png

viz · June 2020

GuyBoden said:

Good stuff, that's a new approach.

The following was the method I found for myself many years ago to see key signatures. I see the flats of keys on the fretboard across in fourths, each subsequent fret adds another note to the key in the cycle of fourths (fifths).

I see the flats of keys on the fretboard across in fourths. (Low to high string.)

F = Bb
Bb = Bb Eb
Eb = Bb Eb Ab
Ab = Bb Eb Ab Db
Db = Bb Eb Ab Db Gb
Gb = Bb Eb Ab Db Gb Cb

I see the sharps of keys on the fretboard across in fourths backwards (fifths). (High to low string.)

G = F#
D = F# C#
A = F# C# G#
E = F# C# G# D#
B = F# C# G# D# A#
F# = F# C# G# D# A# E#

.

Nice. For me that’s where the 2 mnemonics come in - father charles goes down and ends (battle) - the C# key missing from your list, and for flats, Battle ends and down goes charles’ (father)

GuyBoden · June 2020

viz said:

GuyBoden said:

Good stuff, that's a new approach.

The following was the method I found for myself many years ago to see key signatures. I see the flats of keys on the fretboard across in fourths, each subsequent fret adds another note to the key in the cycle of fourths (fifths).

I see the flats of keys on the fretboard across in fourths. (Low to high string.)

F = Bb
Bb = Bb Eb
Eb = Bb Eb Ab
Ab = Bb Eb Ab Db
Db = Bb Eb Ab Db Gb
Gb = Bb Eb Ab Db Gb Cb

I see the sharps of keys on the fretboard across in fourths backwards (fifths). (High to low string.)

G = F#
D = F# C#
A = F# C# G#
E = F# C# G# D#
B = F# C# G# D# A#
F# = F# C# G# D# A# E#

.

Nice. For me that’s where the 2 mnemonics come in - father charles goes down and ends (battle) - the C# key missing from your list, and for flats, Battle ends and down goes charles’ (father)

That's a good rhyme, I'm terrible at reading key signatures that have too many sharps. For Jazz improv, if anything had too many sharps I'd play it in the appropriate flat key.

viz · June 2020

GuyBoden said:

viz said:

GuyBoden said:

Good stuff, that's a new approach.

The following was the method I found for myself many years ago to see key signatures. I see the flats of keys on the fretboard across in fourths, each subsequent fret adds another note to the key in the cycle of fourths (fifths).

I see the flats of keys on the fretboard across in fourths. (Low to high string.)

F = Bb
Bb = Bb Eb
Eb = Bb Eb Ab
Ab = Bb Eb Ab Db
Db = Bb Eb Ab Db Gb
Gb = Bb Eb Ab Db Gb Cb

I see the sharps of keys on the fretboard across in fourths backwards (fifths). (High to low string.)

G = F#
D = F# C#
A = F# C# G#
E = F# C# G# D#
B = F# C# G# D# A#
F# = F# C# G# D# A# E#

.

Nice. For me that’s where the 2 mnemonics come in - father charles goes down and ends (battle) - the C# key missing from your list, and for flats, Battle ends and down goes charles’ (father)

That's a good rhyme, I'm terrible at reading key signatures that have too many sharps. For Jazz improv, if anything had too many sharps I'd play it in the appropriate flat key.

Well, the system of keys does that for you, right? Down the right hand side of the co5 the keys G D A E B and F# accumulate sharps to a maximum of 6 (unless you include C# which has a 7th); the one after C# would have to deploy a double-sharp, an F##, but of course you’re well round the left hand side of the c05 by then, on Ab, which has 4 flats.

So really there’s very rarely an option to switch a key with too many sharps for an enharmonic flat key, apart from C#, which you’d switch to Db, and even so I’ve never heard anyone ever try to say C# major.

Unless you’re talking about people saying “play it in G# major” or D# major or A# major or E# major, or oddest of all, B# major!

A# major for example would have A# B# C## D## E# F## G## and A# - I agree with you, I’d prefer to call that Bb!

The only time I can think of for wanting to call a key A# for example is in a modulation where say you’re in A and you want to shift up a semitone, then I guess you could call that A# major instead of Bb, but it’s still a bit strange.

viz · September 2020

Right me hearties, I managed to save up enough money to get the minor version of the dodecahedron to accompany the major one. It’s a fantastic little device for anyone who wants instant recall of the keys and their sharps and flats. D minor? 1 flat! D# minor? 6 sharps

https://i.imgur.com/XYbsK5J.jpg

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Little revelation about sharps and flats

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