Classical guitars without classical necks?

guitargeek62 · May 2014

I like the idea of getting a classical acoustic, but I absolutely cannot stand the typical D profile that you find on them. I could adjust to the 50mm nut width, but ideally I guess I'd be looking for something with a similar feel to a nice 000.

Is anything out there in the <£500 bracket that has a C (or ideally, V) profile, and a 1-¾" nut?

tonyrath · May 2014

Check out Coda who do yammys for about that price

guitargeek62 · May 2014

Wait, there are Yammys with that type of neck?!

DiscoStu · May 2014

Try Breedlove. The ones I tried felt more like electric necks than acoustic.

Branshen · May 2014

Check out the Yamaha NTX line. Great nylon string sound but with modern playability.

guitargeek62 · May 2014

Good call @DiscoStu, the Pursuit Nylon looks lovely - I'll see if I can find one to try.

xHymnal · May 2014

I've seen S/H Godin nylons for that price

guitargeek62 · May 2014

Can't say the Godins do anything for me tbh, good guitars though.

Just wondering if there'd be anything particularly wrong with this cheapy. I'm not after something pro-level, just playable with a nice tone for home use. 43mm nut, solid cedar top, £265... seems good on paper as a starter at least?

Islandape · May 2014

Branshen said:

Check out the Yamaha NTX line. Great nylon string sound but with modern playability.

I have an NTX1200. Nice guitar, but the nut although narrower is still about 48mm vs the 41-2mm of my electric guitars- and the neck's noticeably thicker. It's enough to throw me a little though that might be my relative lack of playing experience.

This said, I sold my Ramirez due to it's neck being designed for gorillas - or given where it was made, guerrillas. I heard a story that Sergovia had huge hands as "the Meastro's" dominance of classical guitar thinking lead to much larger necks than were the case a century before. Be interested if anyone can confirm that.

Still, you'll notice the tone not being as good, at least acoustically, on even the solid wood 1200.

Phil_aka_Pip · May 2014

Andres Segovia did have pork sausages for fingers in later life. Any photo will show it.

I like hearing classical guitars being played properly, but dislike intensely the feel of nylon strings. It's like playing on wet rubber bands.

guitargeek62 · May 2014

That's partly why I don't want to spend a great deal on one initially. I love the sound, but I've hardly spent any time playing them - and the ones I have have mostly been seriously cheap crap that barely counted!

richardhomer · May 2014

I've taken the compromise route with my nylon string. I have a Taylor which has a narrower fingerboard than a 'proper' classical - it also has a slight camber. That said, it still feels very different from a steel string acoustic.

If I spend any length of time playing it, I find I'm totally smitten with it. A nylon string guitar forces you to play differently. You can't bend, vibrato is applied differently, fingers rather than pick, etc.

All of these things conspire to lead your playing into different areas. I think every player should have one!

ICBM · May 2014

guitargeek62 said:

Can't say the Godins do anything for me tbh, good guitars though.

Just wondering if there'd be anything particularly wrong with this cheapy. I'm not after something pro-level, just playable with a nice tone for home use. 43mm nut, solid cedar top, £265... seems good on paper as a starter at least?

I'm probably a lone voice in the wilderness again

but I've always found Fender's acoustics to be hugely under-rated, so although I haven't tried this one I wouldn't be surprised if it's quite nice.

Conversely I've always found Yamahas (other than their very high-end models) to sound thin and artificial, and over-rated. Godins I just find a bit ordinary too.

I would also like a nylon-string with a smaller neck than the usual half tree, but it's more difficult since I don't want electrics and possibly not a cutaway… I'm really looking for something more like an old pre-'classical' parlour guitar, but with reasonable volume and projection and not fragile/valuable.

Phil_aka_Pip · May 2014

I've never seen a fender acoustic that would not have done better service as firewood. Would a 3/4 size classical be a good substitute for a "pre-classical parlour"?

guitargeek62 · May 2014

Well I'm one of those oddballs that quite likes the Sonoran's so I'm not too concerned about buying an acoustic with Fender on it. I'd considered a ¾ size, but I think that would be too strange a compromise tbh, especially as I'm 6'3"!

Much like @ICBM, it's not that I want a classical to play classical on, but for the difference in feel, tone, & response. I'd thought about buying an antique something or other to noodle on, but I'm not really after a(nother) project guitar so that seems unlikely.

@RichardHomer - it was a Taylor that kicked off this bug funnily enough, it was a beautiful thing indeed - I can't remember the model name exactly but it looked like it would have fitted in the 6 or 8 series perhaps? The long-term plan is to perhaps get a 412CE-N if I find that I enjoy playing a cheapy enough to warrant it.

ICBM · May 2014

Phil_aka_Pip said:

I've never seen a fender acoustic that would not have done better service as firewood.

I've owned several, and I always like them. The ones with the Strat headstocks especially :-P .

You're arguing with this man, anyway…

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_HzKJyX3Sim8/SKToNOA_d9I/AAAAAAAABwA/J9EC88W8K1k/s400/29g1qhj.jpg

And him

http://dylanchords.info/pictures/etd_kingman.jpg

And him

http://www.scottymoore.net/images/eguitars/movieguitars/wildwood/0818_0467.jpg

So you're wrong

.

Phil_aka_Pip said:

Would a 3/4 size classical be a good substitute for a "pre-classical parlour"?

Not really. I borrow my daughter's one occasionally, but the string tension is too low to get a good sound out of it even though the body and neck are a nice size. It needs a full scale length...

guitargeek62 · May 2014

Yep, the Sonorans & Malibus are cool!

guitargeek62 · May 2014

I should point out that while I'd prefer a narrower nut width than 50-52mm, I'm more than happy to stick with chunky nut depths!

The main part that puts me off is the usual flat spot on the back of a D profile (which I believe helps with "proper" classical hand positioning). I'd be very happy to find a baseball bat type neck on one, or even better a chunky hard V profile.

Phil_aka_Pip · May 2014

@ICBM if those guys liked their guitars, fine, but I've still never seen a fender acoustic that would not have done better service as firewood.

I was once told about "high tension" nylon strings. Not that I'd be bothered with them, but would they be of use on a 3/4 ?

ICBM · May 2014

Phil_aka_Pip said:

@ICBM if those guys liked their guitars, fine, but I've still never seen a fender acoustic that would not have done better service as firewood.

Well, I would have to admit that the really low-end models - the most common ones - tend to be a bit junk, but they're actually no worse than any other brands at that price… and I think most people put down the better models because of a belief that Fender have no business building acoustics, or particularly that the Strat headstock looks wrong on them - which I don't think they do, and those models are all much nicer. One of the nicest small-body acoustics I've ever played was a 60s Fender Newporter… I wish I'd bought it, but I was on holiday in Canada and I was "not allowed"

.

Phil_aka_Pip said:
I was once told about "high tension" nylon strings. Not that I'd be bothered with them, but would they be of use on a 3/4 ?

Not enough, no - I've got those on it already. I need hard tension on a full scale length to get the tone I want.

tonyrath · May 2014

7/8 guitar might be a solution. Yamaha do a Guitele for £55 or so which might just suit you. If you buy any classical guitar budget for the strings being lowered unless you buy a decent priced flamenco the strings will be too high for comfort. The alternative is a requinto which is smaller has 6 strings and is used in Latin American music it is tuned a 4th higher I believe. They start at about £250 ish

Evilmags · May 2014

Google Nylon Jazz and Flamenco. Both are easier to play than classicals and have thinner necks.

WezV · May 2014

guitargeek62 said:

I should point out that while I'd prefer a narrower nut width than 50-52mm, I'm more than happy to stick with chunky nut depths!

The main part that puts me off is the usual flat spot on the back of a D profile (which I believe helps with "proper" classical hand positioning). I'd be very happy to find a baseball bat type neck on one, or even better a chunky hard V profile.

recarve?

ChrisMusic · May 2014

OK ~ this maybe a major dumb-ass question**, but is there any reason not to string a normal acoustic with nylons ?

I have never had or played a classical guitar, so forgive the naivety here, but I like the idea of the change on sonic palette too.

(or just click the lol below if it is a ** )

WezV · May 2014

it can work, but volume and tone will be compromised by the heavier bracing needed for steels strings.

You also need a good way to achor classical strings with steel string pins, and tuning will be a bit long winded

ChrisMusic · May 2014

Thanks WezV, I thought it seemed too easy, makes sense though.

Maybe worth a tryout just to see, nice little project maybe?

tonyrath · May 2014

Agree with Mags Allhambra or Admira do a flamenco about £450 easyish to play and good value for dosh

ICBM · May 2014

ChrisMusic said:

OK ~ this maybe a major dumb-ass question**, but is there any reason not to string a normal acoustic with nylons ?

Nylon strings don't have the tension or the mass to make a heavily-braced steel-string guitar top vibrate properly.

I will work if it's an electro-acoustic and you're only interested in the amplified sound though. And yes, you have to pull the strings very tight onto the tuning pegs before you tie them to ensure you can get enough windings to bring them up to tension - classical machineheads have much more room.

guitargeek62 · May 2014

WezV said:

guitargeek62 said:

I should point out that while I'd prefer a narrower nut width than 50-52mm, I'm more than happy to stick with chunky nut depths!

The main part that puts me off is the usual flat spot on the back of a D profile (which I believe helps with "proper" classical hand positioning). I'd be very happy to find a baseball bat type neck on one, or even better a chunky hard V profile.

recarve?

It had crossed my mind, it's hardly a difficult thing to do but I'd potentially like to keep some resale value if I end up not getting on well with it.

Tbh, this is hardly a priority purchase. More of a vague interest really, so I'm aiming to use the KISS principle if I go ahead with it.

*edit* Iirc one of my uncles has an old Yamaha classical that is sat in his attic. I might see if he could loan it to me for a while to see how I get on with a proper one for any length of time.

Paul_C · May 2014

LAG used to do a nice nylon acoustic with a neck similar to a steel string.

guitargeek62 · May 2014

Woop, borrowing my uncles one now. Just need to get it from Carterton to Plymouth lol! It'll need some new strings, but should be okay apart from that. I'll post some pics etc once I've got it in hand, cheers all.

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Classical guitars without classical necks?

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