Classical or Flamenco guitar advice?

Creed_Clicks · September 2019

Reasonably priced query. I am working between Granada and Ireland and thinking about another classical or flamenco guitar around the 3 or 400€ mark. I might look second hand as there are several options online in Spain anyhow.

I’d be playing indie rock , post rock type stuff on it with some open tunings ,and might look at installing a k&k pickup unless you have other recommendations.

For my price range would it matter if I get a classical or flamenco guitar?

I understand there are small differences between the two. Preferably I’d go for something with a truss rod but not a deal breaker and preferably non cutaway.

Any recommendations on brands?

earwighoney · September 2019

Creed_Clicks said:

Reasonably priced query. I am working between Granada and Ireland and thinking about another classical or flamenco guitar around the 3 or 400€ mark. I might look second hand as there are several options online in Spain anyhow.

I’d be playing indie rock , post rock type stuff on it with some open tunings ,and might look at installing a k&k pickup unless you have other recommendations.

For my price range would it matter if I get a classical or flamenco guitar?

I understand there are small differences between the two. Preferably I’d go for something with a truss rod but not a deal breaker and preferably non cutaway.

Any recommendations on brands?

Differences between classical and flamenco guitars, aside from bracing is that classical guitars have more relief carved in/slightly higher action at 12th fret.

As for guitars with an adjustable truss rod, the only ones I can think of are Camps and Cordoba. For the latter, the GK Studio seems to be a very popular model for 'crossover' style playing, but they have some more crossover models that might be your thing. They are outside your budget but it might crop up within your budget S/H.

Creed_Clicks · September 2019

@earwighoney Thanks for advice. I notice Alhambra do some classical models as well. Not sure yet if I´d be better buying in Spain rather than elsewhere.

Matt_McG · September 2019

I have an Alhambra, an Iberia, which is one of their lower priced models ( think about 300-400 quid new, I paid less second hand). Solid cedar top, but laminated back and sides.

For me, it has been a guitar I've had a lot of use out of for nearly 20 years.

Upsides: it sounds really good. My old guitar tutor had a high end factory made guitar -- ebony board, all solid wood, etc. -- and I preferred the sound of mine.

Downsides: the action would seem pretty high for someone coming from electric or steel string acoustic.

There are some nice luthier shops in Granada. I've no idea re: price, but I've admired things in the window, the one time I was there.

Andyjr1515 · September 2019

The sound characteristics of a flamenco are quite different to a classical so it depends what fingerstyle and sound tone you are planning to go for.

Flamenco guitars are designed to minimise the sustain of the plucked note compared with a classical. This is to suit the very percussive and rapid note plucking characteristic of the flamenco music...too much ringing sustain and the notes will tend to merge into an acoustic mush.

So if this is your playing style, then fine. But if you want the sustained notes typical of the classical guitar pieces, then a classical guitar is what you need.

In very general terms, you can play a half decent 'spanish' sound on a classical, but you will struggle to get a decent classical guitar sustained note sound from a flamenco.

So, unless you are specifically intending to play flamenco or similar, get a classical.

Hope this helps.

Creed_Clicks · September 2019

@Andyjr1515 it does indeed help, thanks. Classical it is then for me. What to get is another thing...

Toms_Dad · September 2019

Since you are playing indie rock and intending to amplify, the differences in tone between classical and flamenco will be minimal ( apart from perhaps sustain as already mentioned). Similarly I probably wouldn’t worry about laminated back and sides, but a solid top is quite important.
If you go secondhand this spec should be achievable with a bit of patience in waiting for a good one to come up. I would aim to pay up to about 2/3 of new price. In addition to the brands already mentioned I would add La Patrie, an offshoot of Godin I believe, and Yamaha (NTX/NCX 700 or perhaps even the silent guitar). All these come up regularly secondhand in the usual channels. No truss rods though!

Creed_Clicks · September 2019

Should I be going for a truss rod ? Or does it really matter

Toms_Dad · September 2019

Conventional theory says you don’t need one for nylon strings as the tension isn’t so high and classical guitars have never traditionally been made with them. However, Cordoba seem to think there is some benefit. Perhaps it gives more control over set up, such as action height?

Creed_Clicks · September 2019

Maybe. Hmmmm

earwighoney · September 2019

Andyjr1515 said:

The sound characteristics of a flamenco are quite different to a classical so it depends what fingerstyle and sound tone you are planning to go for.

Flamenco guitars are designed to minimise the sustain of the plucked note compared with a classical. This is to suit the very percussive and rapid note plucking characteristic of the flamenco music...too much ringing sustain and the notes will tend to merge into an acoustic mush.

So if this is your playing style, then fine. But if you want the sustained notes typical of the classical guitar pieces, then a classical guitar is what you need.

In very general terms, you can play a half decent 'spanish' sound on a classical, but you will struggle to get a decent classical guitar sustained note sound from a flamenco.

So, unless you are specifically intending to play flamenco or similar, get a classical.

Hope this helps.

I'm sorry Andy, that's not always the issue. It kind of is for some flamenco guitars, but not all. It applies to a few flamenco guitars and quite a few 'blancas', in particular Conde blancas (cypress backs) which have little to no sustain, but other makers and types in particular 'negras' are built with rosewoods, and some have a lot more sustain than their 'blanca' counterparts.

IMO, classical music can be played on a flamenco guitar eg I've seen Bach played on flamenco guitars now and again. Here's one of my favourite flamenco guitarists playing Bach on his Conde, and even though the recording quality isn't the best to my ears I think there's no problem with playing such a piece on a flamenco guitar.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqKF-zzEi3c

Also, one of the all time great guitarists Manolo Sanlucar played a 60's Ramirez classical guitar
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Nwnru8OaHE

To the OP, I'd not worry about whether the guitar is a flamenco or a classical to begin with, for a budget instrument I'd be more concerned about finding the one that suits your hands the most.

Creed_Clicks · September 2019

@earwighoney Thanks for the advice. I just did a rough search on thomann and narrowed it down by my pride point and there just seems to be so many options available it’s hard to know what to go for. Probably best if I go and play some.
There are a few regular guitar shops here in Granada with your standard stock of stuff so I’ll have a look there maybe.
There are also some used ones knocking around as well.

Kittyfrisk · September 2019

Hi @Creed_Clicks ;
If its of any interest at all to you, I have an Admira 'Avila' that is in need of a new home.
Second hand obviously, but its a honest solid top classical in good nick that won't break your budget (£100 + whatever shipping is to sunny Ireland).
No obligation at all & feel free to tell me to go forth & multiply

Image: /plugins/EmojiExtender/emoji/fb/3.gif

Creed_Clicks · September 2019

@Kittyfrisk oh yeah ? Any pics etc and more info? Might plug the gap.
My original plan was to buy one in Spain and keep it here but I’ll see...

Kittyfrisk · September 2019

Oh bollocks, now I have to go taking photo's

Bear with me, I'll see what I can do.

Kittyfrisk · September 2019

OK, here we go.
Can't find any significant marks at all (I'm careful) but its a cursory look.

That's it for now. More/better pics might be available tomorrow (after I get back from the pub & have a kip).
Spruce top, ebony board & (I believe) rosewood back/sides.
As I said, no obligation whatsoever & being a bit tarty, I'll consider reasonable offers from interested parties

Andyjr1515 · September 2019

@earwighoney is, of course, right. Not all flamenco guitars are equal and the negra models are specifically designed to try to bring back some of the sustain missing from many of other designs. Also, not all classical guitar pieces are equal.

So, for the OP, if you are wanting to play Bach, a flamenco guitar will do fine (I do, and it does) , but if you are looking for more the Cavatina sound

,then many flamenco guitars will struggle. Not sure which end of the spectrum your indie sits in..

Creed_Clicks · September 2019

@Andyjr1515 just regular enough fare

Kittyfrisk · September 2019

I have some further photo's if needed. I don't really want to clutter up the forum with unnecessary stuff.
As I said, there's no pressure at all from me, so if you are interested & wanted any more information, just PM me?
If not, no problems

jmcustomguitars · September 2019

Maybe for you the best choice will be crossover guitar

Creed_Clicks · September 2019

@jmcustomguitars when you say crossover, could you give an example of a model?

earwighoney · September 2019

Creed_Clicks said:

@jmcustomguitars when you say crossover, could you give an example of a model?

A crossover model is a nylon string guitar often with a cutaway that has a slightly narrower nut (eg 50mm, or even 48mm), maybe a fretboard with a slight radius (eg 16") opposed to being flat.

Cordoba have quite a few, the GK isn't listed on their site as a crossover as it doesn't have a radiused board but it does have a slightly narrower nut width of 50mm.

ToneControl · September 2019

I'd recommend checking used prices on ebay, they are often very low in the UK

Creed_Clicks · September 2019

As with all of my ideas, I have to sell something first before doing anything else!

DLM · September 2019

Is @Evilmags even still around to page? Mags? You out there?

robinbowes · September 2019

@Creed_Clicks I had a similar urge (for a nylon-strung acoustic) and went with a Yamaha NTX900FM. I love it - great acoustic sound, and excellent pickups/electronics. I can throughly recommend.

R.

Munnster · September 2019

Creed_Clicks said:

Should I be going for a truss rod ? Or does it really matter

It might matter. It certainly does for me. LAG, Cordoba and Kenny Hill guitars have them and my experience with previous classicals and flamencos is that they often tend to forward bow to where the action is negatively affected. That and over time the necks usually creep in spite of the ebony strips often installed on the back of the necks. I have never owned one I paid more than a thousand dollars for so I've not had a real expensive one.

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Classical or Flamenco guitar advice?

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