Upgrading from Faith Saturn - £800 budget

Longtallronnie · August 2019

Currently play a High Gloss Faith Saturn which I love but wondering what I could get for around £800 used that would be a significant upgrade?

Not too familiar with various brands when it comes to acoustics. Pretty much always played dreadnoughts and wouldn’t want anything bigger, nor would I want a teeny guitar like what that Sheeran fella plays.

Any ideas?

Teyeplayer · August 2019

I’d personally recommend Eastman if you want to buy new. Secondhand martins sometimes come up at the top end of your price range, even the odd Gibson.

What body shape/size are you definitely after (do you want to stick with a dread or would a 000 suit)? Are there any particular woods you favour and how will you use the acoustic (strumming, finger style)? Narrowing those choices down will make your decision making process down. Good luck.

Longtallronnie · August 2019

I have no idea what a 000 is lol! I’m predominantly a strummer but I do attempt a bit of finger style. I’d consider most body shapes that were similar size to a dread or maybe a bit smaller. No preference to wood but prefer solid over laminate.

Teyeplayer · August 2019

That’s cool mate, its easy to get bamboozled by it to start with. Here is a rough explanation from the Dawson’s website:
https://www.dawsons.co.uk/blog/acoustic-guitar-body-types
It isn’t definitive but will give you a rough idea.

From personal experience a 000 which is smaller than a dread (though not the tiny Ed Sheeran size) is great for fingerpicking, the dread less so but excels when strummed. I try to always have one of each available (the electric equivalent might be having a LP and a tele/strat).

Teyeplayer · August 2019

Here’s a NGD I posted a little while back to an Eastman OM. It’s a great guitar for just shy of £500 and all solid woods.
https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/155097/ngd-eastman-e1-om-ltd#latest

drofluf · August 2019

What’s “wrong” with your Faith? What aspect are you looking to improve on?

To be honest my first thought is that your budget is pretty close to the retail price of what you have at the moment. Whilst you will get a bit of a lift by going second hand there may not be a massive jump.

Having said that I’m all for buying a guitar just for the sake of it.

.

Kilgore · August 2019

Longtallronnie said:

I have no idea what a 000 is lol! I’m predominantly a strummer but I do attempt a bit of finger style. I’d consider most body shapes that were similar size to a dread or maybe a bit smaller. No preference to wood but prefer solid over laminate.

It would be worth doing a bit of research on woods. A guitar with a spruce top will sound quite different to the same guitar with a mahogany top.

Longtallronnie · August 2019

drofluf said:

What’s “wrong” with your Faith? What aspect are you looking to improve on?

To be honest my first thought is that your budget is pretty close to the retail price of what you have at the moment. Whilst you will get a bit of a lift by going second hand there may not be a massive jump.

Having said that I’m all for buying a guitar just for the sake of it. .

Nothing wrong with it really, just curious as to whether £800 would get me a much better instrument or if I’d need to spend a considerable amount more.

Longtallronnie · August 2019

As an alternative, I’m considering fitting a Pure Mini pickup to the Faith and spending the rest on something else.

Andy79 · August 2019

Gibson J15
Martin 15 series
Eastman SS
Harmony 1260 with change
A few decent examples

earwighoney · August 2019

IMO, I don't think for £800 you'd get an upgrade for your Faith. There might be guitars which are different but I don't think there are guitars necessarily that much better than the Faith in the price range, maybe there are guitars about as good or a little better but not really to the point of making a £800 purchase.

Of course there are guitars which are very good but will be different, like MIC Guilds, Eastman to name a few

Longtallronnie said:

As an alternative, I’m considering fitting a Pure Mini pickup to the Faith and spending the rest on something else.

This seems like a good idea. I'd recommend taking your Faith to a luthier for a good set up if you've not already done so. A good one makes a lot of difference.

drofluf · August 2019

I seem to remember reading that Faith do a set up before they send them out to retailers. Mine certainly came perfectly set up.

Longtallronnie · August 2019

Set up’s ok, I’ve had it quite a few years and recently adjusted the action etc. Of course it wouldn’t hurt to have a pro give it the once over but there’s no issues with it really.
Thanks for the suggestions chaps.

p90fool · August 2019

I think if you could add a couple of hundred to your budget you might get a guitar you'd prefer, even if the quality isn't vastly higher.

My gigging electro is a Faith Venus which is impeccably made and works perfectly, but I vastly prefer the acoustic tone of my £1,000 second hand Gibson J-35, although it isn't necessarily better built.

I think before you spend money you need a target to aim at, or you'll be paying money to stand still. My goal was a typical pre-war American tone which the J-35 answered, but if I preferred a more modern tone I would've been better off with my existing Faith.

Whitecat · August 2019

I’m gonna concur that you’re not gonna get much better at £800 - different, perhaps. And if the handling is your main gripe with the Faith - maybe the body or the neck shape aren’t your bag - then you can probably get an “upgrade” on those details only. But tonally and even craftsmanship wise, I doubt there’s much movement unless you can find a crazy bargain on something higher-end going secondhand.

Perhaps a visit to a well-stocked dealer is in order. Play everything - play ones you can’t afford - at least it will help you work out what you really do like/dislike. Maybe you’ll find that you’re actually happy with what you’ve got...

Wolfetone · August 2019

Faith Venus

ICBM · August 2019

You might get a lower-range Larrivee for that - they don’t hold their value well second hand for some reason.

Chris_J · August 2019

If you were to sell the faith and then add 800 that would give you quite a few options

Longtallronnie · August 2019

Can’t see me selling the Faith tbh. I’ve had it at least 11 years (can’t remember exactly when I bought it) so I’m pretty attached to it.
I think I’ll probably end up fitting a pure mini for time being and maybe invest in a nice preamp pedal.

Chris_J · August 2019

To be honest, that's all the guitar you'd probably ever need.

p90fool · August 2019

I've just had a bit of a revelation with my Faith this weekend (that sounds a bit religious!) in that during Saturday's gig it start fluctuating in volume. I changed both leads and the battery in the on board Shadow preamp to no avail. Some of the sliders and switches have been getting noisier for a while, so the preamp was my prime suspect.

So on Sunday I tore all the guts out of it and wired the undersaddle piezo directly to the jack, then tried it through my Zoom AC-3.

At last night's gig it's the best it's ever sounded, and I no longer have to worry about batteries. Wish I'd done it years ago.

ICBM · August 2019

p90fool said:

I've just had a bit of a revelation with my Faith this weekend (that sounds a bit religious!) in that during Saturday's gig it start fluctuating in volume. I changed both leads and the battery in the on board Shadow preamp to no avail. Some of the sliders and switches have been getting noisier for a while, so the preamp was my prime suspect.

So on Sunday I tore all the guts out of it and wired the undersaddle piezo directly to the jack, then tried it through my Zoom AC-3.

At last night's gig it's the best it's ever sounded, and I no longer have to worry about batteries. Wish I'd done it years ago.

Onboard electronics are the work of Satan.

I can't understand why having the pickup *only* in the guitar and an external preamp is not the accepted way to do it - it's better in every way.

I was going to say every way except not having the controls at your fingertips, but actually that's an advantage too... nothing is more infuriating for a soundman than having the player adjusting the sound of the guitar mid-song.

drofluf · August 2019

p90fool said:

I've just had a bit of a revelation with my Faith this weekend (that sounds a bit religious!) in that during Saturday's gig it start fluctuating in volume. I changed both leads and the battery in the on board Shadow preamp to no avail. Some of the sliders and switches have been getting noisier for a while, so the preamp was my prime suspect.

So on Sunday I tore all the guts out of it and wired the undersaddle piezo directly to the jack, then tried it through my Zoom AC-3.

At last night's gig it's the best it's ever sounded, and I no longer have to worry about batteries. Wish I'd done it years ago.

@p90fool Out of interest did you put the disconnected preamp back or leave yourself a new soundport?

And if the latter do you notice any difference in sound when playing?

p90fool · August 2019

ICBM said:

p90fool said:

I've just had a bit of a revelation with my Faith this weekend (that sounds a bit religious!) in that during Saturday's gig it start fluctuating in volume. I changed both leads and the battery in the on board Shadow preamp to no avail. Some of the sliders and switches have been getting noisier for a while, so the preamp was my prime suspect.

So on Sunday I tore all the guts out of it and wired the undersaddle piezo directly to the jack, then tried it through my Zoom AC-3.

At last night's gig it's the best it's ever sounded, and I no longer have to worry about batteries. Wish I'd done it years ago.

Onboard electronics are the work of Satan.

I can't understand why having the pickup *only* in the guitar and an external preamp is not the accepted way to do it - it's better in every way.

I was going to say every way except not having the controls at your fingertips, but actually that's an advantage too... nothing is more infuriating for a soundman than having the player adjusting the sound of the guitar mid-song.

Having half a dozen fiddly, crackly, over-sensitive sliders at my fingers was no use to me anyway, I couldn't read the damn things without my glasses! Also, I tend to derive pleasure from the simple things in life, like not having to unplug my guitar when I put it down in case it kills the battery for the second set.

@drofluf I left the preamp out as it happens to have a separate surround which acts as a hole tidy.

The hole does definitely act as a sound port, though obviously that's totally inaudible on stage.

drofluf · August 2019

Thanks!

lincolnblue · August 2019

drofluf said:

I seem to remember reading that Faith do a set up before they send them out to retailers. Mine certainly came perfectly set up.

I think they do but mine has a very high action - think a good set up will make a big difference.

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Upgrading from Faith Saturn - £800 budget

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