Lowering the action Martin?

Pablocrackers · August 2019

Hey, how easy is it to drop the bridge a bit on a Martin om28?
i love it but it can be difficult to play the finger style but i admit im an electric player so used to low action etc
thinking about trying to lower it a tiny bit

ts
Pete

GTC · August 2019

Sanding down the saddle on the bridge is a very easy DIY job as long as you go carefully - and there are plenty of YouTube videos and advice on this forum to show you how. However, I'd recommend taking it to a decent tech to adjust the neck relief (truss rod) and nut slot heights as well to optimise the action.

drofluf · August 2019

Perhaps worth checking that the slots on the nut aren't too high first?

Andy79 · August 2019

What’s the current height of the saddle?

brooom · August 2019

This seems to be a typical issue with most Martins, off the factory. Even higher end ones.

Revolting1 · August 2019

^All good advice

If its the first time buy a spare saddle and nut work on those to keep it playable if things go wrong.

Bone is a great choice sonically.

if you want a vegetarian option Nu Bone or Tusq (not quite as hard wearing as bone)-

but sound as good.

Sand (or file) the bottom of the saddle for main adjustment..

If going for the truss rod best to adjust a little at a time-

best turned with strings slack.

Industry standard relief is 20 thou"

Anywhere between 20" and 2" can be optimal depending on the neck.

If adjusting in the winter expect it to tighten (by itself (relative humidity)) in the summer-

Acoustics are much more prone to this than Solidbody Electrics.

Lewy · August 2019

Revolting1 said:

Industry standard relief is 20 thou"

Where are you getting that info from? That is an incredibly large amount of relief and a long way from any industry standard I'm aware of. Martin specify between .005 - .010", Collings and similar all gravitate towards .005"

Do not put .020" relief on your neck if playability is your goal (which would appear to be the case from the OP).

Revolting1 · August 2019

Lewy said:

Revolting1 said:

Industry standard relief is 20 thou"

Where are you getting that info from? That is an incredibly large amount of relief and a long way from any industry standard I'm aware of. Martin specify between .005 - .010", Collings and similar all gravitate towards .005"

Do not put .020" relief on your neck if playability is your goal (which would appear to be the case from the OP).

Sadly from most books I've read on how to set up an acoustic-hence the emoji.

Which is why i suggested (from my experience) trying as low as .002"

For clarity the least relief you can get away with for maximum playability is best.

Setting for no relief risks bowback in humid conditions.

Lewy · August 2019

Revolting1 said:

Lewy said:

Revolting1 said:

   Industry standard relief is 20 thou"

Where are you getting that info from? That is an incredibly large amount of relief and a long way from any industry standard I'm aware of. Martin specify between .005 - .010", Collings and similar all gravitate towards .005"

Do not put .020" relief on your neck if playability is your goal (which would appear to be the case from the OP).

Sadly from most books I've read on how to set up an acoustic-hence the emoji.
    Which is why i suggested (from my experience) trying as low as .002"
      For clarity the least relief you can get away with for maximum playability is best.

    Setting for no relief risks bowback in humid conditions.

Ah sorry I missed the emoji. I read it as you advising .020" as the way to go!

Revolting1 · August 2019

Lewy said:

Ah sorry I missed the emoji. I read it as you advising .020" as the way to go!

No stress,and good info from you too.

Can be tricky putting together an imformative post without it turning into War and Peace-too long.

brucegill · August 2019

Pretty sure stewmac recommend .020”. Seems crazy. Would be bloody horrible to play.

Revolting1 · August 2019

brucegill said:

Pretty sure stewmac recommend .020”. Seems crazy. Would be bloody horrible to play.

Sometimes required if the neck/frets are in horrible condition.

Or if the 'player' batters the f**k out of the strings.

Its a nasty compromise.

Strat_a_tat_tat · August 2019

I think it's advisable to adjust the nut and the neck relief before deciding on whether to adjust the saddle height.

Pablocrackers · August 2019

Thanks all ill study some videos i figured it would be some kind of manual sanding down the saddle. I setup all my own electrics so no probs there ive done alot just not an acoustic. I checked the neck relief and its all good just like 1 mm maybe at the 10th fret but its like (eyeballing it) at least 5mm at the 12th fret maybe more!
The nut looks perfect to be honest but i havent measured anything

TimmyO · August 2019

Pablocrackers said:

Thanks all ill study some videos i figured it would be some kind of manual sanding down the saddle. I setup all my own electrics so no probs there ive done alot just not an acoustic. I checked the neck relief and its all good just like 1 mm maybe at the 10th fret but its like (eyeballing it) at least 5mm at the 12th fret maybe more!
The nut looks perfect to be honest but i havent measured anything

If the RELIEF is that there's something wrong - do you mean the action?

Strat_a_tat_tat · August 2019

Pablocrackers said:

Thanks all ill study some videos i figured it would be some kind of manual sanding down the saddle. I setup all my own electrics so no probs there ive done alot just not an acoustic. I checked the neck relief and its all good just like 1 mm maybe at the 10th fret but its like (eyeballing it) at least 5mm at the 12th fret maybe more!
The nut looks perfect to be honest but i havent measured anything

1. I hope you don't mean relief.

2. How does it go from 1mm to 5mm in a distance of just 2 frets?

Pablocrackers · August 2019

Yeh i see the confusion in how i wrote that. Its 1mm at the 10th when i fret first n last fret the relief if fine. The action seems high to me its around 5mm at the 12th fret without fretting anywhere (eyeballing it only) havent got access to my tools now

TimmyO · August 2019

1mm of relief is too much

Revolting1 · August 2019

^ Agreed-

If using old school measuring kit optimally somewhere between a rizzla packet lid and a rizzla.

Lewy · August 2019

TimmyO said:

1mm of relief is too much

Yep that's .039" so basically at least four to eight times more than you should be shooting for if you want a good mid-neck action. Don't go messing with anything until that's taken care of!

ToneControl · August 2019

put a capo on the first fret, and then assess if the action is too high. If not, it's the nut causing the problem

drofluf · August 2019

^with due respect to everyone that is probably the best piece of advice in this thread, reversible and will help to diagnose what the problem is.

TimmyO · August 2019

Nope : Relief -> Nut -> Saddle

Pablocrackers · August 2019

Ill get the tools out and report back lol! Im not a stickler for numbers when i set up my electrics ill use the manufacturers guidelines but after that its all personal ill play it and set it where i like it best

drofluf · August 2019

TimmyO said:

Nope : Relief -> Nut -> Saddle

Sorry, my mistake. Drugged on flu medication has addled my brain. Thanks for the correction

Strat_a_tat_tat · August 2019

TimmyO said:

Nope : Relief -> Nut -> Saddle

Yes... this.

GTC · August 2019

Pablocrackers said:

Ill get the tools out and report back lol! Im not a stickler for numbers when i set up my electrics ill use the manufacturers guidelines but after that its all personal ill play it and set it where i like it best

I'd forget about manufacturers guidelines - which are usually based on average to heavier playing styles. If you've never set up an acoustic guitar before then I would recommend taking it to an experience technician, discussing stuff with him like your playing style, string and tuning choice - and asking him to explain what he'll do and why.

Setting up a guitar isn't difficult, but it is a patient balancing act in which experience helps a lot.

If you want to try your own set ups then I'd recommend picking up a real cheap guitar to practice on rather than starting with a Martin OM28

fretfinder · August 2019

I presume it’s not an OM28V as they have an elongated glued-in saddle, so you can’t remove the saddle and sand its bottom! Not sure how one would lower the action on one of those if neck relief and nut tweaking weren’t enough, without major surgery.

Lewy · August 2019

fretfinder said:

I presume it’s not an OM28V as they have an elongated glued-in saddle, so you can’t remove the saddle and sand its bottom! Not sure how one would lower the action on one of those if neck relief and nut tweaking weren’t enough, without major surgery.

It’s pretty straightforward - you remove the material from the top instead of the bottom.

brucegill · August 2019

Pablocrackers said:

Yeh i see the confusion in how i wrote that. Its 1mm at the 10th when i fret first n last fret the relief if fine. The action seems high to me its around 5mm at the 12th fret without fretting anywhere (eyeballing it only) havent got access to my tools now

I’d test the relief between the 1st and 14th on an acoustic. Unless it’s a 12 fret... not first and last. Just find the highest area between those two frets. If it’s 1mm, then that’s a huge relief and you’ll get a much nicer action once set correctly.

If if you do the above and then what ToneControl has suggested, you’ll know more and be able to get some advice.

Id get something like this to get you measurements though
https://www.jp-guitars.co.uk/sales/tools/investigating_and_measuring/string_action_gauge_inches.htm
Loads of cheaper options to this, but you’d need to look into it.

Funkfingers · August 2019

Martin’s recommended action above the twelfth fret is higher than some others - possibly to cover their arses against fret rattles.

As a rule, Martin guitars give of their best when played hard. i.e. Considerably more effort than required for electric guitar with light gauge strings.

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Lowering the action Martin?

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