Larrivee vs Martin

ICBM · December 2016

thomasross20 said:

@ICBM what's the worst that can happen to the electrics?

Not much, other than rusty strings, hardware and frets. The necks might move a bit, but you should be able to fix that with the truss rods. In really extreme cases you can get finish cracking, but I doubt PRS finishes are thick and hard enough for that to happen - it mainly affects things with super-hard polyester.

In my experience/opinion excess humidity can also make guitars - including electrics - sound dull too, but I'm not sure how quantifiable that is.

thomasross20 · December 2016

Well, the humidity has thus far dropped from 71 to 69 % but it's only been a little while.
The room is adjacent to the bathroom which can get quite moist!
Will give it some time and see if the number drops some more.

ICBM · December 2016

thomasross20 said:

Well, the humidity has thus far dropped from 71 to 69 % but it's only been a little while.
The room is adjacent to the bathroom which can get quite moist!

Do you have an extractor fan for the bathroom? If not, it would be a good idea to fit one, either a fast one which comes on with the lights and a time delay when they're turned off, or a slow one which runs continuously. The last thing you want is steam from the bathroom filling up the rest of the house.

thomasross20 · December 2016

We do have an extractor, yeah

Another factor to consider is that the hygrometer itself is guff.
I left it near a hot running tap for 30s and it went from 68% to 76% (with a lag). I need to figure out how to calibrate it.

richardhomer · December 2016

ICBM said:

Don't bother - if the room humidity is constant at 64-70% then the inside of the cases will be too, after a matter of hours at most. They aren't airtight, or even close to it for PRS cases.

Spot on - the case may prevent rapid changes but it is not hermetically sealed.

Two things tend to happen to guitars which are too wet 1) The top bellies more than it is supposed to, which will raise the action. 2) They tend to sound 'dead'.

It might be worth considering a proper dehumidifier.

thomasross20 · December 2016

Recommendations for a proper one (one that can regulate?) much appreciated! I'll look later when I get back.

ToneControl · December 2016

70% is a very high humidity level inside a house
tell me more about the room
is it a loft-room?
Does it go through cycles of cold and heat during the day?
Upstairs?
Any damp walls?

If it's been that humid when it's been frosty outside, and the heating's on, I'd say you might have penetrating damp, I can't see the odd blast from a bathroom keeping the RH that high

Do you dry clothes in or near it?

thomasross20 · December 2016

Well I don't know about that room but we had somebody check our kitchen not long back and that was fine.
Might be a dodgy hygrometer - I might buy another or calibrate first.
It's just a normal room, heating on twice a day. Radiator at the other side.
Hygrometer and guitars are beside the window which does get a touch of condensation.
No damp to speak of.

ToneControl · December 2016

where have you located the hygrometer?
put it in a similar place to the guitars

e.g. mine hang on the wall, so I put one on a book shelf at the same height on an inner wall, and one on a desk 3 feet off the ground near the guitars hanging on the outer wall

If you put the meter near the floor or ceiling, or a windowsill or hang it on the wall, you won't get an accurate reading

thomasross20 · December 2016

It's right beside the guitars, which are right next to the window

ToneControl · December 2016

try it away from the window - just in case that's a funny spot
in a water-tight house, with the heating on when frosty outside, you should be getting RH below 35%
So I'd wonder if you have a bit of damp getting in to the house

ToneControl · December 2016

you don't use calor gas heaters in the house?

Lewy · December 2016

ToneControl said:

in a water-tight house, with the heating on when frosty outside, you should be getting RH below 35%

I wish....I've never had lower than around 55% RH in any conditions anywhere I've ever lived. Normally it's up above 60% if left unchecked.

I must have a very humid lifestyle....

thomasross20 · December 2016

No calor gas heater.

I just opened the window and it went from 70% to 64%. Edit - now it's at 60%. Wtf.

I'll leave it a bit and place it at the other side of the room.

Moe_Zambeek · December 2016

Is there a vent on the window?

thomasross20 · December 2016

Yeah but I keep it closed..

thomasross20 · December 2016

My thinking was the vent would let moisture in but maybe I'm trapping it instead.

ToneControl · December 2016

thomasross20 said:

Maybe I'll buy a little one.
Is there a decent dehumidifier you guys might recommend?

you should never need a dehumidifier to look after your guitars in the UK, unless there is seriously something unusual with the room (i.e. damp cellar, leaky roof, full of tropical fishtanks, used as a kitchen, used to dry clothes)

RH in a UK house is typically based on what it is outside, plus the effects of central heating (CH) and living (breathing, cooking, washing, etc). In the UK, we almost always want to increase indoor temp above outdoor temp, or throw open all the windows. Few use air con to chill the air.

Roughly, raising air temp by 20C doubles the water it can hold, so if it's 50% RH outside, at 5C, and you take that air and heat it to 25C, it will be 25% RH

In real terms this means that in the summer, with the windows open, RH will be similar to outside, usually 45-55%. It rarely goes past 60% in the UK. In Florida or Japan it is a different story
In the UK in the winter, with the heating on, RH indoors is usually 32%-35%, rarely more than 30%
On cold dry days, outdoors air is very cold and dry already, heat that air and get it indoors, and even with breathing and cooking, UK indoors RH can be 27% or less on a snowy day. Offices and hotels are very bad for this
In the spring an autumn, indoors air is often 35% or 37% in houses I've lived in

Air con dries the air in the reverse way: it cools air, and the water falls out of it, then adds the air back to the room.
Heavily airconditioned rooms can get too dry for guitars in the summer. More advanced air con adds moisture back into the air separately.

bluechargeboy · December 2016

Good thread, it is making me think I should at least know what the humidity is in my house.

Our double bass player has the opposite problem; his (circa 1860) bass dries out in winter so he has to put a wet rubber sausage thingy in his F hole(!). He likes to keep his house humid. I wouldn't lend him a paperback book.

BRISTOL86 · December 2016

My room is around 60-65 all winter. We do put damp clothes in there on occasion but even without it's rare for it to be below 55-60

Lewy · December 2016

BRISTOL86 said:

My room is around 60-65 all winter. We do put damp clothes in there on occasion but even without it's rare for it to be below 55-60

I think this is plenty of people's experience. I can only think of a few days so far this winter that have been particularly cold and dry...mostly they've been kind of damp and really not that cold....the CH has only needed to go on for an hour or so a day max over a 8-12 week period after which it's not on for the rest of the year pretty much.

Humidity in the house north of 55% the whole time. No way I'd be able to properly look after my good acoustics without a dehumidifier and very good cases, which the guitars live in when I'm not playing them. I use these to ensure the cases are providing suitable protection: http://www.planetwaves.com/pwhumiditrak.page?sid=8b8529dc-67ad-427b-b73d-6834da5391a1

daveww · January 2017

I got myself an HTC-1 and the humidity has stayed at around 40-45% throughout the couple of months I've had it. Can't vouch for its accuracy but it seems accurate at recording the temperature.

thomasross20 · January 2017

Going to try and calibrate this thing this week and get another for reference. Willing to splash a couple hundred on a proper dehumidifier in order to protect the room and guitars.

Lewy · January 2017

thomasross20 said:

Going to try and calibrate this thing this week and get another for reference. Willing to splash a couple hundred on a proper dehumidifier in order to protect the room and guitars.

I have an older version of this one, which does a good job:

http://www.appliancesdirect.co.uk/p/cd20le/electriq-cd20le-dehumidifier?refsource=Apadwords&gclid=CM-ExOHitNECFYwy0wodgj8Irg

thomasross20 · January 2017

How noisy is it (if noisy, do you turn it off at night?) and does it make a noticeable difference in energy bills?

I'm getting a loan of one off a guy at work for a week so will see how it does. No point spending thousands on guitars and skimping on something like a dehumidifier!

Moe_Zambeek · January 2017

Have you tried opening the window vent yet?

thomasross20 · January 2017

Yeah I did that. Didn't make any difference

ToneControl · January 2017

try testing some other rooms in the house, to see if that room is damper than the others
if it is, I'd be looking for leaks first (pipes or rain getting in)

BRISTOL86 · January 2017

Lewy said:

BRISTOL86 said:

My room is around 60-65 all winter. We do put damp clothes in there on occasion but even without it's rare for it to be below 55-60

I think this is plenty of people's experience. I can only think of a few days so far this winter that have been particularly cold and dry...mostly they've been kind of damp and really not that cold....the CH has only needed to go on for an hour or so a day max over a 8-12 week period after which it's not on for the rest of the year pretty much.

Humidity in the house north of 55% the whole time. No way I'd be able to properly look after my good acoustics without a dehumidifier and very good cases, which the guitars live in when I'm not playing them. I use these to ensure the cases are providing suitable protection: http://www.planetwaves.com/pwhumiditrak.page?sid=8b8529dc-67ad-427b-b73d-6834da5391a1

I thought 40-60% was considered the happy zone? If it's 55ish year round then you should be ok without dehumidification shouldn't you?

I use the cheapy room dehumidifiers that collect moisture and just move my acoustic into another room anytime there's washing drying in that room.

Lewy · January 2017

BRISTOL86 said:

Lewy said:

BRISTOL86 said:

My room is around 60-65 all winter. We do put damp clothes in there on occasion but even without it's rare for it to be below 55-60

I think this is plenty of people's experience. I can only think of a few days so far this winter that have been particularly cold and dry...mostly they've been kind of damp and really not that cold....the CH has only needed to go on for an hour or so a day max over a 8-12 week period after which it's not on for the rest of the year pretty much.

Humidity in the house north of 55% the whole time. No way I'd be able to properly look after my good acoustics without a dehumidifier and very good cases, which the guitars live in when I'm not playing them. I use these to ensure the cases are providing suitable protection: http://www.planetwaves.com/pwhumiditrak.page?sid=8b8529dc-67ad-427b-b73d-6834da5391a1

I thought 40-60% was considered the happy zone? If it's 55ish year round then you should be ok without dehumidification shouldn't you?

I use the cheapy room dehumidifiers that collect moisture and just move my acoustic into another room anytime there's washing drying in that room.

In my experience the zone within which you are avoiding damage is broader than the zone where my guitars sound and play their best. I can hear/feel a difference between 45% and 55% and definitely 60% where unchecked humidity would gravitate for a lot of the year. So I keep the guitars as close to 45% as I can because that's how I like them, even if they wouldn't be at risk at higher humidity.

My house isn't a leaking pile of damp either ... I just happen to gravitate towards putting on a jumper rather than running the CH all year.

Howdy, Stranger!

Categories

In this Discussion

Become a Subscriber!

Larrivee vs Martin

Comments