Home Recording......The Basics and Budgets?

Bellycaster · August 2013

I was listening to some of you guys playing over Jam tracks on Fretboard Guitarist Collective earlier and it's reminded me I need to get into recording myself playing guitar.

I watched a video from Andrew Wasson on the subject and it looks like it boils down to 3 main components

1) Microphone.....That's easy

2) A Mixer.....Ok

3) Software for your PC......Great

I know the choices will be many but I just want to ask a few questions.

Do you guys use this format?

Is it easy to learn to use from Numpty level? ie Zero knowledge, like myself.

What do your set up costs range between?

I'd rather get a plan from you guys than a major guitar store.

I have a HP Pavilion dv6 laptop, do I need a more specialised PC?

Thanks for any help fellas and remember I know pretty much Jack Sh*t about this subject.

PS: Lots of nice playing on those threads, me want to join in.

;-)

Barney · August 2013

i just use a line 6 UX 1 into the usb port of a laptop...thats all you need to get decent demo recordings..iff you have a mess with it you can get it very amplike...they are cheap as well...:)

Bellycaster · August 2013

@Barney

Thank you.

I'm learning already, I don't need to even use my amp. I'm sure the Line 6 would be decent enough for demos.

If I did want my own amp tone though, through micing up, does it get too complicated for a novice?

I think the thing I might find most complicated is actually using the sofware and how to, say, isolate a YT Backing track or the backing tracks provided on here and then play my own solo over it etc.

Barney · August 2013

iff you did want your own amp tone you could still use the UX1 and use the mic input on it and just mic the amp ....so you will still be inputting via the usb on your computer....but to be honest the sounds are good on the gearbox software for the ux1 i dont think you would want to use your amp...saying that you wouldnt want to use line 6 live either though .....everything as its use.....amps sound good recorded with proper micing and good mics and somebody who knows how to use them...

TTony · August 2013

I'd really say that it depends on lots of things.

I've bought various PC type interfaces over the years, and software apps too. Never really used them (either on PC or on laptop) because it all took too long to set-up. Switch on PC/laptop, wait for it to boot. Wait for app to load. Find the various cables, and plug them in. Realise that the laptop battery was about to run out, so go find the PSU. Move everything to within reach of a power socket. Etc ... hassle.

Now I play/practice/record through an iPad. Easy as. The apps are a fraction of the price. Battery lasts all day. Play wherever you like. Simple interface. Brilliant.

Bellycaster · August 2013

@Barney

I'll have a look at one of those. I don't want to go into silly money as it's just for doing demos and like you said, that should be perfectly adequate.

I hope I learn more from this thread though as you probably know, you walk into a Guitar store and say "I want to do X" and they only sell you what they make the best commision on and then you learn from your mistakes after, lol.

BTW, You play very very well from the demos on here I've heard from you. Top notch.

Barney · August 2013

Bellycaster said:

@Barney

I'll have a look at one of those. I don't want to go into silly money as it's just for doing demos and like you said, that should be perfectly adequate.

I hope I learn more from this thread though as you probably know, you walk into a Guitar store and say "I want to do X" and they only sell you what they make the best commision on and then you learn from your mistakes after, lol.

BTW, You play very very well from the demos on here I've heard from you. Top notch.

thanks most of it is the UX1 so have a listen there is loads of stuff on there ...it will give you a idea of the sounds there is ....even though i only use about 3...lol

Bellycaster · August 2013

TTony said:

I'd really say that it depends on lots of things.
I've bought various PC type interfaces over the years, and software apps too. Never really used them (either on PC or on laptop) because it all took too long to set-up. Switch on PC/laptop, wait for it to boot. Wait for app to load. Find the various cables, and plug them in. Realise that the laptop battery was about to run out, so go find the PSU. Move everything to within reach of a power socket. Etc ... hassle.
Now I play/practice/record through an iPad. Easy as. The apps are a fraction of the price. Battery lasts all day. Play wherever you like. Simple interface. Brilliant.

ipad? You could put one of your solos over Fretwired's backing track on here using an ipad?

Sh*t, I really am in the Dark ages Tony. I have an iphone. I'm not taking the piss, but it's hard to comprehend. I've just been a "Plug in and play" guy for years. Things are progressing at a scary rate. I'm all up for learning how many options are available though.

Cheers

steamabacus · August 2013

There's always the option of a modern digital 'portastudio' - more limited than a computer setup but simpler and, importantly, reliable and more stable.

TTony · August 2013

I did mine on my iPad.

Way, way easier than using a PC.

Quite seriously ... I've been a PC-user/enthusiast since PCs began (I think I bought my first "proper" XT-clone c1986). I've been a guitar player for longer. Yet I never got the hang of plugging a guitar into a PC and making all the software work in a way that I wanted it to.

In the last year or so, I've done more playing via an iPad than I did in the preceding 30-odd years. Quite seriously. The quality of iPad apps are ridiculous (good). The price of them is even more ridiculous (cheap). Using the set-up is - literally - as easy as plugging a cable into an interface into the iPad. Play anywhere, anytime.

£20 will buy you all the apps that you *need*. Another £20 will buy you a good-enough interface (iRig).

Only downside is that you'll also need to buy the iPad (many apps will work on the iPhone, but an iPad makes it a lot easier to use them, IMHO), but once you've bought your iPad, you'll only wonder why you hadn't already bought one.

The apps (I use JamUp Pro - google it) give you all sorts of amp emulations and fx boxes - so you have a virtually infinite range of modelled sounds. Plus an 8-track recorder. Plus the ability to import any mp3 track to jam along to. Or play over the top of (via the 8-track). Or use the 8-track to record your own stuff. There are ridiculously good synth apps, some for free, that'll keep you amused for hours. Or days. Apps like GuitarPro are stupidly functionally rich. Garageband is just a must-have, no-brainer.

dindude · August 2013

^^^^ I could barely agree more, iPad is the perfect coming together of rock solid, easy to use-ness, like a hardware multitracker, yet great graphical interface like a PC DAW. But 98 times simpler to use.

Bellycaster · August 2013

@dindude

@TTony

@Barney

Thanks muchness, I will be taking it one step at a time and will study all responses I get on here, research needs to be done but thanks for pointing me in the right directions.

If I have to suffer my guitar playing, then I'm damned if you lot are gonna get away with not hearing it.

TTony · August 2013

Bellycaster said:

If I have to suffer my guitar playing, then I'm damned if you lot are gonna get away with not hearing it.

Excellent. Looking forward to it ...

FWIW, I do a lot of my playing/practising, plugged into the iPad and a pair of headphones, whilst my wife is watching crap TV. OK, so I'm at the other end of the room, but I get to play guitar without MrsTT having to listen to it, and she gets to watch crap TV without me having to listen to it ... but at least we're in the same room and the wine gets shared equally.

[edit]
I love the irony of this thread, and your sig

digitalscream · August 2013

dindude said:

^^^^ I could barely agree more, iPad is the perfect coming together of rock solid, easy to use-ness, like a hardware multitracker, yet great graphical interface like a PC DAW. But 98 times simpler to use.

Maybe, but as soon as you progress past basic recordings and beginner mixing and (for example) want to start using VSTs (anything that's not built specifically for the iPad, which is...basically everything), custom drum loops etc - you suddenly find that all that investment is worth diddly-squat and you have to start again.

For my part, I just use my pedalboard -> a TC Electronic Impact Twin interface (Firewire, natch, but I've used several USB interfaces in the past and they're all just as good for beginner to intermediates) into Reaper which runs cab impulses. Sounds way better than any software modeller I've come across, and it's pretty bloody easy to set up. I taught my boss how to set it up from scratch and use it to record vocals, bass and guitar on a PC in about 3 hours...and he's a graphic designer and a Mac guy.

It really isn't as difficult as people think.

EDIT: Example prices...

£45 - M-Audio Fast Track (average price on eBay)

£35 - Reaper

£0 - Amplitube Custom Shop (you get basic amp and effect models, and can buy more if you want)

That's....pretty much it.

Bellycaster · August 2013

@TTony

I can just picture it. lol. Wife watches X Factor while dedicated musician sits in front room noodling and seething at lack of talent on TV.

It's a conspiracy, I tell thee.

Seriously, though I really need to do this (recording) stuff. When I first joined forums, inc TPG, I thought everyone was a virtuoso like Vai or something and was embarrassed at my non virtuoso level of playing. While there are some fantastic guitarists on here, I see that you don't need to be a virtuoso to post your clips and that's not being unkind to anyone.

As for my sig, it goes back a long time to someone's words who my Brother worked with in the 90's. You had to be there, know the character and the explanation at the time.

Just so I haven't shattered the fun, "I am on tablets y'know" for reducing Blood Pressure.

It's a lot more fun to imagine the original quote though!

(Edit, Where you TTony on the old place, I know you are one of the main Bods here and I confuse easily ;-)

>:D<

PS: Is that smiley ^ supposed to be someone who is forcing one out?

daveww · August 2013

iPad mini and GarageBand all the way I do most of my stuff with an apogee mic or apogee one. It's instant, easy and quick.

PolarityMan · August 2013

I reckon you want a simple USB interface, even if you're only look at guitar to start out with get one with at least one, preferably 2 mic pre's with phantom power to make sure you don't have to rebuy when you decide you also want to get decent recording of an acoustic guitar, or do some vocals.

I have this as my more mobile recording card (I have a much bigger one for recording full drumkits and whatnot):

http://www.soundsliveshop.com/p/Tascam_US-122_MKII_USB_Audio_Interface/TASC-US122MKII?CAWELAID=1830895873&catargetid=1820151170&cadevice=c&cagpspn=pla&gclid=CIW-6p_ZlLkCFU3LtAodUFoAPw

Run that into reaper through either amplitube 3 free (you can buy extra model individually) or some other free ampsim (I've heard good stuf about lePou) and you're good to go.

If there is enough interest I'm happy to write some drum programming tutorials for help setting up backing tracks and stuff.

Bellycaster · August 2013

@PolarityMan

Thank you.

More seasoning for the soup!

TTony · August 2013

digitalscream said:

dindude said:

^^^^ I could barely agree more, iPad is the perfect coming together of rock solid, easy to use-ness, like a hardware multitracker, yet great graphical interface like a PC DAW. But 98 times simpler to use.

Maybe, but as soon as you progress past basic recordings and beginner mixing and (for example) want to start using VSTs (anything that's not built specifically for the iPad, which is...basically everything), custom drum loops etc - you suddenly find that all that investment is worth diddly-squat and you have to start again.

That might be a fair point - I'm not sure whether you could do more serious level stuff on an iPad or not (because I've never tried to).

But, for a starter-outer, the iPad offers the easiest route in. There are no technical "how do I" challenges to work out, and you don't need "someone-who-knows" to spend 3 hours showing you how to use the iPad. Download the app (couple of mins), plug in (seconds), load the app (milli-seconds), poke the screen a couple of times and you're away. It encourages you to do stuff, whereas a PC set-up used to inhibit me. It's huge fun and easy. That's what a starter-outer needs to make sure that they progress past starter-outer stage (if they want to).

And the investment is minimal - apps & interface for <£40 - worth spending that to (a) work out whether you're interested enough in doing it to tackle the PC route and (b) to have as a casual backup when you're off on holiday, or in a hotel room for work, or (etc).

Bellycaster said:

(Edit, Where you TTony on the old place, I know you are one of the main Bods here and I confuse easily ;-)

That's me.

daveww · August 2013

Well said TTony. If you buy interfaces (I like Apogee but others interfaces are available) you can always use them with bigger more complex rigs in the future. I've owned loads of other stuff in the past and sold it. If you want to record professionally, record a full band etc then you need more. But if it's just you and a guitar then ipad and garageband or JamUp pro is a great place to start.

dindude · August 2013

I'm surprised how far garage band for ipad gets you to be honest, I haven't found it limiting so far, although I can't see me ever wanting to get too complex, it just a hobby. The focusrite itrack solo interface i bought also works for PC and Mac so the investment of £130 is bargain-ness.

PolarityMan · August 2013

daveww said:

Well said TTony. If you buy interfaces (I like Apogee but others interfaces are available) you can always use them with bigger more complex rigs in the future. I've owned loads of other stuff in the past and sold it. If you want to record professionally, record a full band etc then you need more. But if it's just you and a guitar then ipad and garageband or JamUp pro is a great place to start.

When I started out music software looked like this:

And it never stopped me progressing past the beginner stage

I haven't tried any of the iOS stuff but if you cant program decent drums on it then I reckon it's a waste of time starting there. It's not like a DAW is very hard these days.

jmaster · August 2013

I'm looking to start doing more home demos of song ideas and stuff once I'm in the new house in London (A WEEK ON FRIDAY OMFG). I've done diy recording before with my band so have a reasonable idea of how to do it and I have a USB interface, but I don't know what software to use. I've used the demo LE version of cubase which is ok but a bit lacking in functions, and logic which was great and cheaper than cubase or anything but I'd need a mac.. Does anyone know of any good, cheap other DAWs? What is this reaper you speak of?

PolarityMan · August 2013

http://www.cockos.com/reaper/

Very low cost DAW, unlimited free trial and only about £30 for a license. I switched from cubase and much prefer reaper tbh.

Bellycaster · September 2013

@dindude

Hi

Had to come back to this thread regarding the ipad route as you and some others mentioned above.

I'm just thinking costs as I would have to fork out for the Ipad? Is it feasible or would it prove more costly? I don't know how cheap you can get a reliable ipad. New ones are a tad dear.

Cheers.

dindude · September 2013

@Bellycaster

It certainly makes a lot more sense if you have an ipad already. If you have to stump up for one then not so much (justed checked on ebay and second hand prices are quite high, looking at least £200 for an ipad 2!), although once you have one there is no going back, they are superb, my home laptop has not been switched on in 6 months.

Once you're in it's pretty cheap, £2.99 to buy Garage Band app (last time I checked), then an interface, a budget of £100 gets you a very good choice.

All of my recording for The Fretboard challenges are done on an ipad, and I also mike up the amp too, rather than using sims, as you suggested.

Did you say you have an iphone? If you do I would recommend trying something on there first (I think Garage Band is available for the iphone) - the screen may seem a bit small, but for basic stuff you can get away with it.

Buy a cheap-ish guitar input-only interface for £40 (you will need to use amp sims), then you're up and running. Progress to better interface/ipad if the bug bites.

Bellycaster · September 2013

Cheers @dindude

Knowing me, I will probably get tempted to go that route and think "sod the money". I will take in all the options on here so I am armed for when I go into the guitar store which would be Richtone in my City. I'd want them to demo me something if they want my cash.

I'm going down South on Friday so on the way back the next week I could detour into a Guitar Guitar(most likely Birmingham) too.

stickyfiddle · September 2013

Another iPad user here. It's not something I'd buy purely as a music tool, but its far more useful than an equivalently priced laptop.

I've tried PC recording several times and with a moderate rig it's always shite. Particularly if you want to use amp modelling rather than mixing an amp then you're always pissing about with latency and getting no music made. With the iPad you just plug the cables in, load up whichever apps you want and hit Go.

Bellycaster · September 2013

@stickyfiddle

Cheers.

Did you mean latency is a problem when using amp modelling on software and not when you use your own amp or a problem with both?

Or is latency generally a problem with Laptop recording in general?

stickyfiddle · September 2013

I've found it's always an issue when using an external source with the laptop. I've never had a PC entirely for recording, but with ipad and Apple gear it's never been an issue.

The ipad just means less hassle compared with a PC at the same cost.

Bellycaster · September 2013

@stickyfiddle

Ok, mate, cheers. I'll look into all my options, but I do have the bug now.

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Home Recording......The Basics and Budgets?

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