string guage question

midlifecrisis · March 2014

on my acoustic guitar I have been using custom lights, 11-50. I have recently tuned down a fret to e flat to help my lousy singing. im finding the lower strings a bit rattley and buzzy. would it help if I had heavier guage strings or do I need lighter guage, im too lazy and tight to just try so im asking here, thanks.

The23rdman · March 2014

Heavier. Don't be a pussy.

midlifecrisis · March 2014

thanks. not afraid of heavy strings,(as long as I can get the packet open). just wanna stop the rattle.

ICBM · March 2014

Heavier. 12-53 tuned down a semitone will have about the same tension as 11-50 at standard pitch.

The rattling is probably because the neck has moved back slightly with the lowered string tension, so going back to the original tension will fix it.

midlifecrisis · March 2014

tempted to go to 13-56. or is that too extreme? might even tune down a full tone then.

The23rdman · March 2014

Make sure the bracing can handle 13's if you do, although going down a full tone will reduce the tension.

midlifecrisis · March 2014

The23rdman said:

Make sure the bracing can handle 13's if you do, although going down a full tone will reduce the tension.

how does one do this? apart from doing it and seeing if it breaks

The23rdman · March 2014

What is the guitar?

ICBM · March 2014

What kind of guitar is it?

It's a pretty rare one that won't take 12s at standard pitch, and thus 13s a tone (or even a semi-tone) lower.

midlifecrisis · March 2014

its a Vintage VE-500, elcetro acoustic, I also have a V300 which I may change too.

ICBM · March 2014

It will be fine. The only ones you really have to worry about are vintage parlour guitars and such, which are sometimes a bit fragile to take 12s at standard pitch.

Remember that although they're the most common gauge now, 12s are 'light' in acoustic guitar string gauges. 13s are 'medium' and 14s are heavy.

midlifecrisis · March 2014

tbh its really beaten up anyway so im not that worried about it but itl be fun to try heavier strings, will I need to do anything with the nut or will it be ok taking heavier strings?

ICBM · March 2014

midlifecrisis said:

tbh its really beaten up anyway so im not that worried about it but itl be fun to try heavier strings, will I need to do anything with the nut or will it be ok taking heavier strings?

It would be unusual if the nut wasn't cut to take 12s, but possibly not 13s since almost all acoustics come strung with 12s from the factory.

midlifecrisis · March 2014

thanks,,will experiment

midlifecrisis · March 2014

have done it....put on a set of martins 13-56. did an open mic last night, really felt nice to play in e flat tuning, no buzzes, sounded good (to me anyway) not as heavy as I expected. wonder how heavy I can go.

The23rdman · March 2014

I wouldn't go any heavier than that on a Vintage guitar. You might find it'll go pop.

bertie · March 2014

I use 13s tuned down 1/2 step on my parlor

richardhomer · March 2014

On my Martin Dreadnought I use 13s tuned down a full tone. They are very playable. Acoustics really do need to be 'driven' by heavier strings.

The23rdman · March 2014

richardhomer said:

On my Martin Dreadnought I use 13s tuned down a full tone. They are very playable. Acoustics really do need to be 'driven' by heavier strings.

That is a total fallacy. A solid and well braced dred like a Martin will work great with 13's, but you can drive it just as well with 12's. We're talking about a cheap Vintage here though.

ICBM · March 2014

I think it depends a lot on the guitar. Some guitars need heavy strings, others don't - and some can sound 'tight' or 'tied up' with too-heavy gauge.

Generally I prefer guitars that don't need heavy strings to sound good. It's not always related to the body type either - my Gibson Dove (maple Dreadnought) sounds great with 11s, although to be fair it does have a longer scale than most acoustics.

It's rare to find an acoustic that sounds good with 10s though, and even rarer to find one that actually sounds better with them - although I do know of some.

My Martin 12-string sounds much better with 11s (that's medium/heavy, for a 12-string) tuned down a tone than it does with 10s at standard pitch.

richardhomer · March 2014

The23rdman;192600" said:
That is a total fallacy. A solid and well braced dred like a Martin will work great with 13's, but you can drive it just as well with 12's

I'm not sure how you can state this quite so emphatically, as from recollection you have not tried both gauges on my guitar.

Nonetheless, thanks for putting me right.

The23rdman · March 2014

*Sigh* I wasn't talking about your particular guitar - how could I? Your statement was an absolute and therefore a fallacy. I've owned many guitars that worked better with lighter (although only one that was better with 11's - the others 12's) strings. I've also owned a couple that were better with 13's.

richardhomer · March 2014

The23rdman;193005" said:
*Sigh* I wasn't talking about your particular guitar - how could I? Your statement was an absolute and therefore a fallacy. I've owned many guitars that worked better with lighter (although only one that was better with 11's - the others 12's) strings. I've also owned a couple that were better with 13's.

'Total fallacy' is pretty emphatic. The quote above proves that even in your opinion it is at least a partial fallacy...

The23rdman · March 2014

You are making no sense.

richardhomer · March 2014

The23rdman;193045" said:
You are making no sense.

Likewise.....

The23rdman · March 2014

I'm learning to walk away...

bertie · March 2014

how and what gauge strings a guitar works 'best' with is totally based on how "rigid" the top is and how it is braced.

A great big thick piece of spruce with telegraph poles for bracing ISNT going to respond so well to lighter gauge strings, where as put anything like 13s on very lightly braced cedar top and you'll probably rip the top off. But thats not to say you cant get a reasonable compromise.

My Brook was 'braced' to work best with 12s - they even asked me what gauge I prefer when they made it......... I did put some 13s on just to see if it would make it fuller, and you know what - it didnt. BUT that was to do with tension not directly the gauge of course, tuned down 1/2 a step it was fine...........

Paul_C · March 2014

I've got 10s on my Yamaha, it sounds fine plugged in but might be considered lacking by someone with taste, I guess.

bertie · March 2014

Paul_C said:

it sounds fine plugged in but might be considered lacking by someone with taste, I guess.

can't decide, LOL or Wisdom...........................

Paul_C · March 2014

What I was trying to say, in as few words as possible

is that it works really well as a gigging guitar, but it's not the best sounding acoustically - mind you, due to the thinner body (it's an APX700) it was never going to be. It suits me to use it as it is, but a purist would not be delighted by the tone it produces without an amp

crunchman · March 2014

richardhomer said:

The23rdman;192600" said:
That is a total fallacy. A solid and well braced dred like a Martin will work great with 13's, but you can drive it just as well with 12's
I'm not sure how you can state this quite so emphatically, as from recollection you have not tried both gauges on my guitar.

Nonetheless, thanks for putting me right.

It depends on the model. In my experience, the pre-war style bracing (forward shifted X bracing??) on the vintage series Martins is very responsive, but Standard series is a lot less responsive.

I remember reading that Martin changed the design in the 40s because players were putting really thick strings on to try to compete volume wise with other instuments. I'm not a big fan of their Standard series. If you can afford the ones with the pre-war style bracing, they are stunning. If you can't I think the 16 series, or a Stonebridge is a better guitar. If you are willing to put 13s or 14s on then a Standard series Martin may come to life but strings like that are not for me.

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