Which pickup for my Avalon Dread

preston61 · January 2018

Morning All

Time has come to amplify my wonderful Avalon guitar and wondered what people would suggest. I've never put one in myself, always bought ones with them in before this one, so it's not a world I am hugely familiar with. I would like to do as little cutting in to the guitar as possible, so am thinking and end pin jack is the way to go with a little twisty volume control under the sound hole. That's all I had on my J-45, so please let me know if I need to have more

I currently have a bucket load of Amazon vouchers that I got for Christmas, so if there are any good ones on there that would be more helpful, however I don't mind buying away from there if not

ICBM · January 2018

No, you need less

.

K&K Pure Mini.

Nothing in the guitar except the contact pickups on the inside under the bridge and an endpin jack.

Lewy · January 2018

Absolutely the K&K Pure Mini, although there's nowhere to buy one on Amazon, I'm afraid. That's around £100.

Then depending on what you're plugging into, you may need to get a preamp/DI with the right impedance to get the best out of the pickup (it likes to see 1 M ohm input). If you don't get this bit right, you can find yourself with a muddy/bassy sound that may not always be able to EQ away. Good news - that needn't be expensive - an Orchid Electronics DI will do the job for £36.

That set up will give you a more natural, easier to dial in sound and a less invasive install than pickup systems costing twice as much.

Beware youtube demos of the K&K - they are usually recorded with the pickup DI'd straight into the soundcard and the pickup sounds naff like that. But live, the pickup, plus PA speaker, plus real acoustic space adds up somehow into a really natural acoustic sound.

The only reason I wouldn't use one would be if the guitar's bridgeplate was too small to accommodate the three contact heads, but I doubt that would be the case with your Avalon dread.

ICBM · January 2018

Lewy said:

The only reason I wouldn't use one would be if the guitar's bridgeplate was too small to accommodate the three contact heads, but I doubt that would be the case with your Avalon dread.

I doubt it too, but you're right that it's worth checking first. I'm glad I did for my Gibson Dove - the bridgeplate is easily big enough, but it turns out that there's a tooling hole right in the middle of it, exactly where the G/D sensor needs to go... frustrating!

TimmyO · January 2018

Thread hijack/join-in : is this bridge plate big enough?

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/mm6rlcKr5HBSFYxoJJv0JfSQlW_1FUDCDT3iMXvJhr8LqzJRmUMNuwZkRkZ5D3RWJzdEF6N31t2-hl1Ezr9c2siGa_Wgb1e-jPBYqfTC0lTEmrFr60aDRCys9YHcxgkfl7vMFtb-6rdBYrTyysC_StY6I08XAHgO_TGdjLQzpdg48IxGaMz45xTB-n4tF77-5-RiwpMLumd2y3pQALzSeqWy5FP1ZsL6ghTRKxuXGDQ8wm8-LPxB1HOR-bFsnN2Dn1KQJxlQ0ZLI8xhTnrUXfZx_SE0LTss44clOI35UW7OoD_T9ZU8Y9e_RIKYq0A8ad7F4yavsAnllRptpLXKmy7we4czY1ZHDB8mApBQPGt04fvH0IQF3rF8XipUbzqcoARQAN68FCRo6c6e6hpVJF7jXKXbAsBJIHgArhgl2bsp_LR4Qr88ZCpdb3-Chg8kfdFEGHaFQyKel5GHpCms2QuUcH0uHLNK4FP8PKZmGlmqZYb3Ob6xnlln9H9MIwUHE8m4o-xTR08X5WXKXDztDWbC3_ehk-fYSgZbxQf01F9HBHNHKkchiKYvESjspZCpPSNHtyEsQBc8dts1Ow3eh4mfsQGYBhMCBNztcEZo4vHDT5GGUdcWgATZaAtrusF9jF3FK0UraOAeVEbN4V8CSKp7cKUTiZ5Pifw=w1600-h1200-no

mbe · January 2018

I use a Shadow Prestige on my Lag jumbo. Very acoustic sounding soundhole pickup with a volume control and built in active preamp goes straight to desk or PA. Easy to fit, just enlarge the endpin hole.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Shadow-Acoustic-Guitar-Soundhole-Humbucker/dp/B0030YI4SI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1514998167&sr=8-1&keywords=Shadow+pickup

ICBM · January 2018

TimmyO said:

Thread hijack/join-in : is this bridge plate big enough?

Yes, assuming the pin holes are in anything like a conventional place.

You just need room to do this:

http://www.kksound.com/products/images/purepickup/puremini-guitar.jpg

ToneControl · January 2018

K&K pure mini
sounds better than a piezo in my Avalons, and of course if yours has a split saddle a piezo could get tricky

TimmyO · January 2018

ICBM said:

TimmyO said:

Thread hijack/join-in : is this bridge plate big enough?

Yes, assuming the pin holes are in anything like a conventional place.

You just need room to do this:

http://www.kksound.com/products/images/purepickup/puremini-guitar.jpg

Lovely jubbly

preston61 · January 2018

ToneControl said:

K&K pure mini
sounds better than a piezo in my Avalons, and of course if yours has a split saddle a piezo could get tricky

Yep, split saddle. Looks like I know what to look for, just need to start saving to get it and then get it fixed by a pro

BigLicks67 · January 2018

preston61 said:

Morning All
Time has come to amplify my wonderful Avalon guitar and wondered what people would suggest. I've never put one in myself, always bought ones with them in before this one, so it's not a world I am hugely familiar with. I would like to do as little cutting in to the guitar as possible, so am thinking and end pin jack is the way to go with a little twisty volume control under the sound hole. That's all I had on my J-45, so please let me know if I need to have more
I currently have a bucket load of Amazon vouchers that I got for Christmas, so if there are any good ones on there that would be more helpful, however I don't mind buying away from there if not

The one you had in your J45 was probably an LR Baggs Element VTC under saddle pickup. I've got one in my J45, it's okay and can be EQ'd, but I would defer to the FB wisdom that the K&K is the best no fuss, non invasive pickup.

preston61 · January 2018

BigLicks67 said:

preston61 said:

Morning All
Time has come to amplify my wonderful Avalon guitar and wondered what people would suggest. I've never put one in myself, always bought ones with them in before this one, so it's not a world I am hugely familiar with. I would like to do as little cutting in to the guitar as possible, so am thinking and end pin jack is the way to go with a little twisty volume control under the sound hole. That's all I had on my J-45, so please let me know if I need to have more
I currently have a bucket load of Amazon vouchers that I got for Christmas, so if there are any good ones on there that would be more helpful, however I don't mind buying away from there if not

The one you had in your J45 was probably an LR Baggs Element VTC under saddle pickup. I've got one in my J45, it's okay and can be EQ'd, but I would defer to the FB wisdom that the K&K is the best no fuss, non invasive pickup.

To be fair, that J-45 was very special when plugged in, however it wasn't the easiest to play and sounded better plugged than unplugged.

The Avalon is the nicest guitar I've ever played, electric or acoustic, sounds spectacular at every point of the guitar and so I'd imagine that most pickups will sound good in it. However the Pure mini seems to get a lot of great feedback here, and I trust you folks, so once the money is available, I will go for it

ICBM · January 2018

It's just the most natural-sounding, least invasive system there is in my opinion - if you've got a really nice acoustic, you want to keep it that way. The only alteration to the guitar is reaming out the endpin hole for the jack - the pickups are simply glued to the bridgeplate.

It has no problems with string balance caused by an uneven saddle or slot, and it's also less sensitive to load impedance problems than an undersaddle piezo - although not totally immune, as Lewy said. It should also be 100% reliable more or less forever, because it's not under any pressure in the way an undersaddle strip is - they can occasionally crack. (Although the jack will be the weak link in the long term, it can be replaced.)

If it has a disadvantage it's probably only that it's slightly more prone to feedback at high volume than an undersaddle pickup, but not much.

ToneControl · January 2018

ICBM said:

It's just the most natural-sounding, least invasive system there is in my opinion - if you've got a really nice acoustic, you want to keep it that way. The only alteration to the guitar is reaming out the endpin hole for the jack - the pickups are simply glued to the bridgeplate.

It has no problems with string balance caused by an uneven saddle or slot, and it's also less sensitive to load impedance problems than an undersaddle piezo - although not totally immune, as Lewy said. It should also be 100% reliable more or less forever, because it's not under any pressure in the way an undersaddle strip is - they can occasionally crack. (Although the jack will be the weak link in the long term, it can be replaced.)

If it has a disadvantage it's probably only that it's slightly more prone to feedback at high volume than an undersaddle pickup, but not much.

I agree with all that
I was just about to add the feedback point
However, even if loud performance was needed, I'd rather use a plastic soundhole plug for that situation, than use a piezo.

ToneControl · January 2018

Also, AFAIK, you need to keep the cable short for the passive transducer, and have a good EQ to roll off that bottom end thump

Jaycee · January 2018

Will be interested in knowing what pickup you go for as my nephew wants to put one in his acoustic.

AliGorie · January 2018

preston61 said:

The Avalon is the nicest guitar I've ever played, electric or acoustic, sounds spectacular at every point of the guitar and so I'd imagine that most pickups will sound good in it. However the Pure mini seems to get a lot of great feedback here, and I trust you folks, so once the money is available, I will go for it

Hmmm, presty - thats a big assumption.
I've tried many P/U systems in flattop guitars and at present I have a K&K in one and a Fishman RE Blend in my 'live' playing guitar. Both these guitars are 'good' sounding instruments acoustically - plugged in to a 'good' PA they don't sound like the acoustic versions - they sound like the pickup AND the PA system - this holds true when plunging into my DAW, with Focusrite pre / interface.
The closest u'll get to a plugged in guitar sounding as near as damn it to the natural 'spectacular' sound is sticking a DPA d:vote 4099 Instrument Microphone on the instrument.
The Fishman, with the help of it's built in microphone gives me the best 'APPROXIMATION' of an acoustic sound for trouble free live work but at a price - I payed £150 - they're now £250.
For a better insight of what yer dealing with look up the term 'transducer' as in UST & SBT.

Strat_a_tat_tat · January 2018

@AliGorie. Never heard of that DPA mic. Looks interesting. Is it a viable option for live use... for acoustic gigs in a noisy pub/club?

Lewy · January 2018

Strat_a_tat_tat said:

@AliGorie. Never heard of that DPA mic. Looks interesting. Is it a viable option for live use... for acoustic gigs in a noisy pub/club?

No, definitely not. Polite listening audiences only.

Strat_a_tat_tat · January 2018

@Lewy. Many thanks for the rapid response. I guess I'll have to learn to play a lot better... so audiences are polite to me. Right now my playing only results in shouts of abuse.... so I guess I need a pickup that allows me to turn up and drown the hubbub.

Again, thanks for the advice.

AliGorie · January 2018

Lewy said:

Strat_a_tat_tat said:

@AliGorie. Never heard of that DPA mic. Looks interesting. Is it a viable option for live use... for acoustic gigs in a noisy pub/club?

No, definitely not. Polite listening audiences only.

he he - that's my kinda gig these days.
I did a half hour spot at a full (<> 2k) beer festival in a BIG Victorian town hall using the Fishman Blend - just me and the Bourgie up on a very high stage and a sh*t load of people there for the beer - they seem'd to enjoy it, or so they said - I think they were just being 'polite'.

Image: http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/plugins/EmojiExtender/emoji/fb/smiley.png

As I said the Fishy Blend has a Mic and humbucker so ya get a bit of the instruments sound and the magnetic p/u beefs that up.

ICBM · January 2018

Strat_a_tat_tat said:

I guess I'll have to learn to play a lot better... so audiences are polite to me. Right now my playing only results in shouts of abuse.... so I guess I need a pickup that allows me to turn up and drown the hubbub.

This is why God invented the Telecaster.

If they still aren’t polite, you can always hit them with it.

Strat_a_tat_tat · January 2018

ICBM said:

Strat_a_tat_tat said:

I guess I'll have to learn to play a lot better... so audiences are polite to me. Right now my playing only results in shouts of abuse.... so I guess I need a pickup that allows me to turn up and drown the hubbub.

This is why God invented the Telecaster.

If they still aren’t polite, you can always hit them with it.

Hahaha.

I guess I'm destined to play (and swing) Telecasters for a good few years yet.

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Which pickup for my Avalon Dread

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