Recommendations for Nylon acoustics please (non-classical designs)

ToneControl · December 2017

I was just thinking about what there is out there

e.g. radiused fingerboard, cutaway, larger body, different voicings

Does anyone have any recommendations of pro-level instruments?

ToneControl · December 2017

I had a Ramirez 2 CWE once, I can't remember why I sold it on, other than it stunk of cigarette smoke and the top had dropped a bit

DiscoStu · December 2017

Godin Multiac? Certainly non classical!

mellowsun · December 2017

The Yamaha NTX range is great.

The Lowden nylon jazz models are superb but take a while to develop a full tone.

Both are built for amplified use though - neither have the full, resonant sound of a top-flight classical guitar.

maltingsaudio · December 2017

Breedlove do a good one almost pulled the trigger on one

ToneControl · December 2017

DiscoStu said:

Godin Multiac? Certainly non classical!

had one years ago, really disliked it
It felt very unmusical, I think I need a proper acoustic guitar body

ToneControl · December 2017

I should mention I already have a £2k RRP traditional classical that I never play anymore, although I used to play that style a lot

I am wondering if a less-traditional approach would help (non-flat fingerboard, better intonation, larger body etc)

jellyroll · December 2017

Sounds like you're after a so-called "crossover guitar" and whilst they may offer some of the physical attributes you're after I doubt they'll sound as good as your £2k traditional classical. All the "non-classical" nylon strings I've ever played (Taylor, Godin, Lowden plus a few others) have been inferior to traditional luthier built classical or flamenco guitars in terms of tone and resonance. Alhambra make crossovers, never played one though. Here are some...

https://www.londonguitarstudio.com/guitars-alhambra-crossover-guitars.irc

.

menamestom · December 2017

Cordoba make quite a few as well, although I have never tried them.

I have an Alhambra, which is very nice, but it is very much a classical with a cutaway, rather than a crossover.
It's a bit of a compromise to me, I should have just bought a classical non-cutaway non electro (I'm never going to perform classical live) and an electro crossover guitar (I would play other styles live).
The Alhambra does however sound much better acoustically than thinner body crossovers.

earwighoney · December 2017

@ToneControl ;
What specs are you after e.g. for frets to the body, lower bout, nut width? What is your budget as well?

For crossover instruments for affordable ones Cordoba are very popular amongst players for their crossover instruments.

ToneControl · December 2017

earwighoney said:

@ToneControl ;
What specs are you after e.g. for frets to the body, lower bout, nut width? What is your budget as well?

For crossover instruments for affordable ones Cordoba are very popular amongst players for their crossover instruments.

up to £2k
14 frets

as I said, I had a Ramirez 2 CWE once

earwighoney · December 2017

ToneControl said:

earwighoney said:

@ToneControl ;
What specs are you after e.g. for frets to the body, lower bout, nut width? What is your budget as well?

For crossover instruments for affordable ones Cordoba are very popular amongst players for their crossover instruments.

up to £2k
14 frets

as I said, I had a Ramirez 2 CWE once

I'd have a look at the Cordoba Fusion 14 Maple.

AliGorie · December 2017

ach - fancied one a while back so just built ma own

(at the stringed instrument building course -Anniesland Collage) .
VERY slightly radius'd f/b flamenco bracing spruce 'n maple - not bad.
< > £100 on wood and a great experience.

ToneControl · December 2017

and while I'm at it, what are the best pickups for nylon strungs?

I'm considering Matrix infinity
or a K&K pure mini

I would run this straight into an AxeFx2, which is an excellent preamp for acoustics in my experience

AliGorie · December 2017

ooft - AxeFx2 thats some bit 'o kit, just watched this -

seems after using this approach a simple K&K would do.

richardhomer · December 2017

Taylor make lovely ‘cross-over’ nylons. Not commonplace in stores - but really good.

mellowsun · December 2017

Here’s the sort of sound I get with the Matrix Infinity combined with a bit of condenser mic on the Lowden:

https://youtu.be/wCs5xeU_cIg

ToneControl · December 2017

mellowsun said:

Here’s the sort of sound I get with the Matrix Infinity combined with a bit of condenser mic on the Lowden:

https://youtu.be/wCs5xeU_cIg

I started a new thread for pickups
That sounds good

How do you manage phase issues?

ToneControl · December 2017

AliGorie said:

ooft - AxeFx2 thats some bit 'o kit, just watched this -

seems after using this approach a simple K&K would do.

I never thought of using the tone matching function
Another trick with the AF2 is the use of IR samples
I have some patches set up that mix in a little "guitar body" IR into a piezo signal, which takes the zing out a bit
Also I set up one using a resonator guitar IR, you can quickly switch to this patch and get a dobro vibe

The main advantage of course is that it's the most comprehensive guitar-oriented EQ I have used. The reverbs and delays are amazing, it has multi-band compressors, and lots of FX that can be used subtly (or not) for acoustic guitar

maltingsaudio · December 2017

ToneControl said:

and while I'm at it, what are the best pickups for nylon strungs?

I'm considering Matrix infinity
or a K&K pure mini

I would run this straight into an AxeFx2, which is an excellent preamp for acoustics in my experience

Have a look at AER AK15/30 or Headway

viz · December 2017

Alvarez rc20sc if you can find one

mellowsun · December 2017

ToneControl said:
I started a new thread for pickups
That sounds good

How do you manage phase issues?

Thanks - in terms of phase issues, very basic! If the addition of the mic seems to subtract from the tone I flip the phase invert switch on the mic preamp. Also pan each channel L/R, but I guess I should also sum to mono and check that too ...

ToneControl · December 2017

maltingsaudio said:

ToneControl said:

and while I'm at it, what are the best pickups for nylon strungs?

I'm considering Matrix infinity
or a K&K pure mini

I would run this straight into an AxeFx2, which is an excellent preamp for acoustics in my experience

Have a look at AER AK15/30 or Headway

I have a K&K trinity pro on an acoustic that does this (external mixer box though)
I was just looking for non-mic this time though

maltingsaudio · December 2017

ToneControl said:

maltingsaudio said:

ToneControl said:

and while I'm at it, what are the best pickups for nylon strungs?

I'm considering Matrix infinity
or a K&K pure mini

I would run this straight into an AxeFx2, which is an excellent preamp for acoustics in my experience

Have a look at AER AK15/30 or Headway

I have a K&K trinity pro on an acoustic that does this (external mixer box though)
I was just looking for non-mic this time though

In which case Headway snakes have them on my fylde acoustic and an octave mandolin high output and great definition

ToneControl · December 2017

maltingsaudio said:

ToneControl said:

maltingsaudio said:

ToneControl said:

and while I'm at it, what are the best pickups for nylon strungs?

I'm considering Matrix infinity
or a K&K pure mini

I would run this straight into an AxeFx2, which is an excellent preamp for acoustics in my experience

Have a look at AER AK15/30 or Headway

I have a K&K trinity pro on an acoustic that does this (external mixer box though)
I was just looking for non-mic this time though

In which case Headway snakes have them on my fylde acoustic and an octave mandolin high output and great definition

I've had piezo ones on a few steel-strung guitars, I'm wondering if they would suit nylon strung as well

ToneControl · December 2017

My current theory is that a K&K pure mini could be the best for me because:

less piezo fizz, which I assume is more important with rounded nylon string sounds. I can EQ it in my DAW or AxeFx2
no controls on the sound hole to add weight to the soundboard
far fewer wires, just the wire from the transducers to the endpin. I hate all the flappy noises when you move a guitar that has a volume control on the soundhole and a battery near the neck

Grangousier · December 2017

For a bit of variation: my performing guitars (singer-songwriter type stuff) are two Ovation nylon strings - one is a relatively recent 1863AX, the other a 1970s 1624 (which has been through the wars rather - the headstock is essentially a Frankenstein jigsaw of wood and glue, but it's solid as a rock, so I'm filing that as Vintage Mojo).

The 1624 was apparently made for steel-string guitarists to transition to and is amazing to play, with a jazz-low action, thin neck and all-round satisfying feel to it. Very thin frets. The 1863AX was my preferred guitar until I got it, but forty years of repair and adjustment have given the 1624 a significant edge in the playing department. It also sounds lovely acoustic, albeit not like a classical guitar (a much plummier, jazzier sound, which happens to be what I want). One good thing about Ovation nylon string guitars is that they have truss rods in them, so the neck can be adjusted like a steel string guitar.

Some advantages the 1863AX has are that it's a super-shallow bowl (the 1624 is sort of mid-depth), which Iike, has a cutaway and came with the fancy pre-amp (the 1624 is passive, though a very satisfying passive).

The odd thing about the 1863AX was that the tuner buttons were a soft plastic that disintegrated within a couple of years. Everything else is pretty sturdy, though.

I sort of swap between them - sometimes I use one for a while, then the other and try to make sure I stagger string changes (which bugger up the tuning for at least a week). I'm tempted to take them both to someone who knows what they're doing and say "Make this [points at 1863AX] play like this [points at 1624]".

Of course, Ovation is a fairly unusual taste, that I just happen to have, but you were asking about something different.

Grangousier · December 2017

(And then I went to have a look, and it seems they don't make them any more anyway. Pfft.)

BigLicks67 · December 2017

Might be worth having a look at the Furch GN4 range.

https://www.thomann.de/gb/furch_gn4_cr.htm?glp=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIrqO0lYGR2AIVFhMbCh2vQAyIEAQYAiABEgIMXvD_BwE

ToneControl · December 2017

Decided to go for this:
Avalon Fusion, Spruce top, Auditorium body size, with a K&K mini pickup

TheBigDipper · December 2017

ToneControl said:

Decided to go for this:
Avalon Fusion, Spruce top, Auditorium body size, with a K&K mini pickup

Nice choice. FWIW, I've got two acoustics with Pure Minis on. The K&K preamp really improves things going into my audio interface or a PA. Didn't need it with a Fishman Loudbox, though. I'm suspecting it gives a good impedance match.

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Recommendations for Nylon acoustics please (non-classical designs)

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