When people only refer to "finger style" or" strumming"....

Lewy · October 2017

....it makes me wonder whether people just don't know that there's a whole world of guitar music played like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWaWxcW6x8I

I know there are other flatpickers (for that is what this is) who frequent these parts, but for beginners or more experienced electric players getting into acoustic you can read a whole lot of guitars reviews, watch a ton of youtubes etc and literally never come across this style of solo flatpicking.

It seems to me that a lot of people get into fingerstyle because they want to make self contained music for solo performance and assume that's the only way you can create intricate arrangements. It's not!

thomasross20 · October 2017

Totally aware of this, sorry if I neglect it in my posts

I particularly love bluegrass picking!
TBH one of the reasons I like acoustic is... it's just me and the guitar - I like to leave the plectrum to the electric work (though not always).

Is this your main style of acoustic playing, @Lewy?

BigLicks67 · October 2017

Here's another gratuitous Bryan Sutton video - in man plays classical piece with plectrum shock.

I also recommend the greekflatpicker videos on YT as they are always well recorded and feature some really nice guitars.

Lewy · October 2017

thomasross20 said:

Totally aware of this, sorry if I neglect it in my posts
I particularly love bluegrass picking!
TBH one of the reasons I like acoustic is... it's just me and the guitar - I like to leave the plectrum to the electric work (though not always).

Is this your main style of acoustic playing, @Lewy?

Dude... didn’t mean to sound like I was accusing anyone of neglect! Sorry if it came out that way - just looking to shine a light on something I think a lot of people overlook.

Gig wise, my solo sets these days are probably a third fingerpicking, a third bottleneck and third flatpicking. But the latter is pretty much the only one I practice with a view to advancing in. I love the technical challenge and ultimately I just think guitars sound so wonderful played this way.

thomasross20 · October 2017

Bottleneck? Damn, something else I must try properly....
Do you have those gig videos from last time and any more?

I do seem to be switching a lot more to acoustic because as you say, it's self-contained... I love it. Electric is ok for in bands (to me) but acoustic... just something wholesome and romantic and complete about it. I've always played but it's taken a back seat to electric.

Great videos, those!!

Lewy · October 2017

thomasross20 said:

Bottleneck? Damn, something else I must try properly....
Do you have those gig videos from last time and any more?

I do seem to be switching a lot more to acoustic because as you say, it's self-contained... I love it. Electric is ok for in bands (to me) but acoustic... just something wholesome and romantic and complete about it. I've always played but it's taken a back seat to electric.

Great videos, those!!

Thanks!

Those vids are all here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0A2burtz1C5pBnHUN_eqIA/search?query=lewis+cohen

I never used to be into acoustic at all - I was on that messianic electric blooze mission that so many people embark on, but I could just never find other players who were hearing what I was hearing in the music and who wanted to play blues the way I wanted to hear it. So I thought fuck it, how can I do this on my own? And that was the gateway into all of it. Started out really getting into bottleneck...that led to working on alt thumb fingerpicking with more focus...which opens up a whole universe of material and arranging. At this point, I was thinking "I can play acoustic guitar" - a thought which lasted right up until I heard real flatpicking about 6 years ago

Floof · October 2017

The right hand technique on that OP looks brutal - the eveness of the sound between single notes and the strums - how does one develop that?

Lewy · October 2017

Floof said:

The right hand technique on that OP looks brutal - the eveness of the sound between single notes and the strums - how does one develop that?

The fundamental technique of flatpicking is that the picking hand is constantly moving down and up to the beat in 8th notes whether you are playing rhythm or single note lines. Down beat - Downstroke, up beat = Upstroke. A bar of 4/4 would be DUDUDUDU. Doesn't matter if you don't play all the notes....it could just as easily be DU*U*UD*

That's how there's always the same momentum and drive when alternative from single notes to strums, because the picking hand is just working away like a metronome and always spelling out a strong downstroke on the down beat.

Get that down. Then add a shit-tonne of practice

An amazing illustration of power of this approach comes in this video at 0:04. Norman Blame needs to tune a string...but listen to the wicked thing he does on the bass string .... all using that DU approach. He hammers it again at 0:18

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ccdtho_QOP8

Floof · October 2017

Holy shitballs

Floof · October 2017

Interesting - same guy

thomasross20 · October 2017

@Lewy wow, loads of videos!! Haven't had time to watch them all but I can see all those different picking techniques you use. Do you get lessons for this or for singing or is it all self-taught? Good on you for recording those and posting - thanks - love seeing players playing!

AliGorie · October 2017

must say I like David Grier, guy has humor and it's evident IN his music - listen below
now when U mention 'fingerstyle' playing - as opposed to fingerpicking I cant think of any with a sense of fun
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNOYjyNyc2c

I'm always mystified why 'flatpickers' don't consciously study Irish tenor banjo technique more so for playing Irish music, hey it works on banjo - guitar players and their techniques don't convey that genre convincingly.

heres ITB plectrum technique on a tenor guitar -

thomasross20 · October 2017

My picking has always had a "bounce" (away from the fretboard) to it, which helps with this srot of thing, but has always somewhat hindered my strict alternate picking.

May I also add this. I don't know who this guy is but he covers the basic flamenco techniques decently enough:

Lewy · October 2017

thomasross20 said:

@Lewy wow, loads of videos!! Haven't had time to watch them all but I can see all those different picking techniques you use. Do you get lessons for this or for singing or is it all self-taught? Good on you for recording those and posting - thanks - love seeing players playing!

Actually I didn’t recorded them - that club records everyone that plays there and puts them up on their channel. It’s nice of them to do it.

Singing is self taught. Had a lesson early on with Michael Messer for the bottleneck, and then was just lucky to get to play with some really amazing slide players and learn from watching them. The fingerpicking I kind of figured out for myself. Flatpicking - I do Artistworks with Bryan Sutton (the guy in the original video). It’s brilliant.

Lewy · October 2017

AliGorie said:

must say I like David Grier, guy has humor and it's evident IN his music - listen below
now when U mention 'fingerstyle' playing - as opposed to fingerpicking I cant think of any with a sense of fun
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNOYjyNyc2c

He is hilarious, but also has zero bullshit about him. I've heard some amazing tales of people walking out of masterclasses he's done because of the way he's answered their questions e.g.

Q. "If I can only practice 20 minutes a day, what would you recommend?"
A. "Give up"

Q. "I'm having trouble improvising"
A. "Play happy birthday for me"
Q. *tries and fluffs around trying to find the melody and fails*
A. There's your problem...you want to solo over changes and you can't find the notes of happy birthday on your instrument....

Harsh but fair!

TheOtherDennis · October 2017

Lewy said:

AliGorie said:

must say I like David Grier, guy has humor and it's evident IN his music - listen below
now when U mention 'fingerstyle' playing - as opposed to fingerpicking I cant think of any with a sense of fun
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNOYjyNyc2c

He is hilarious, but also has zero bullshit about him. I've heard some amazing tales of people walking out of masterclasses he's done because of the way he's answered their questions e.g.

Q. "If I can only practice 20 minutes a day, what would you recommend?"
A. "Give up"

Q. "I'm having trouble improvising"
A. "Play happy birthday for me"
Q. *tries and fluffs around trying to find the melody and fails*
A. There's your problem...you want to solo over changes and you can't find the notes of happy birthday on your instrument....

Harsh but fair!

I disagree. I think he's just harsh. Just because you don't know a particular tune - no matter how easy it is - doesn't mean you'll never be able to do anything. And the answer to the first question is "You need to find a way to get more time. Get up half an hour earlier every day and practice then as well as the 20 minutes you already have, it'll make a big difference." Encourage them to think about it, don't just tell him to, effectively, fuck off.

And there are plenty of fingerstyle guitarists with a sense of fun. Eric Roche, John Goldie, some of the guys I used to see at the now sadly defunct Acoustic Avalon played some terrific tunes (Skiing Moose, Ladies Night, The Cat Came Back) whose names I can't remember. Not everyone thinks an acoustic is just for dreary torch songs, fingerpicked or otherwise.

AliGorie · October 2017

this guy will put ya right TOD -
my favorite little Flamenco guy, tells it like it is (to him) and do check out his ideas on the actual instrument - how they're built and what from.

BigLicks67 · October 2017

Lewy said:

thomasross20 said:

Bottleneck? Damn, something else I must try properly....
Do you have those gig videos from last time and any more?

I do seem to be switching a lot more to acoustic because as you say, it's self-contained... I love it. Electric is ok for in bands (to me) but acoustic... just something wholesome and romantic and complete about it. I've always played but it's taken a back seat to electric.

Great videos, those!!

Thanks!

Those vids are all here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0A2burtz1C5pBnHUN_eqIA/search?query=lewis+cohen

Great work. Nice to see a cover of 'Chocolate Jesus'. Have you heard 'Wicked Grin' by John Hammond Jr he does a great version of 'Murder In The Red Barn'.

Lewy · October 2017

TheOtherDennis said:

Lewy said:

AliGorie said:

must say I like David Grier, guy has humor and it's evident IN his music - listen below
now when U mention 'fingerstyle' playing - as opposed to fingerpicking I cant think of any with a sense of fun
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNOYjyNyc2c

He is hilarious, but also has zero bullshit about him. I've heard some amazing tales of people walking out of masterclasses he's done because of the way he's answered their questions e.g.

Q. "If I can only practice 20 minutes a day, what would you recommend?"
A. "Give up"

Q. "I'm having trouble improvising"
A. "Play happy birthday for me"
Q. *tries and fluffs around trying to find the melody and fails*
A. There's your problem...you want to solo over changes and you can't find the notes of happy birthday on your instrument....

Harsh but fair!

I disagree. I think he's just harsh. Just because you don't know a particular tune - no matter how easy it is - doesn't mean you'll never be able to do anything. And the answer to the first question is "You need to find a way to get more time. Get up half an hour earlier every day and practice then as well as the 20 minutes you already have, it'll make a big difference." Encourage them to think about it, don't just tell him to, effectively, fuck off.

If he was teaching beginning or intermediate players I’d agree wholeheartedly but he doesn’t put himself out there as that kind of educator - he only ever does advanced masterclass type things. People with aspirations at that level shouldn’t expect to be coddled and should appreciate the plain talking.

Bryan Sutton (guy in the original video above) IS a first class educator and is very nurturing to people of all levels and intentions. Grier never claims to be that.

Lewy · October 2017

BigLicks67 said:

Lewy said:

thomasross20 said:

Bottleneck? Damn, something else I must try properly....
Do you have those gig videos from last time and any more?

I do seem to be switching a lot more to acoustic because as you say, it's self-contained... I love it. Electric is ok for in bands (to me) but acoustic... just something wholesome and romantic and complete about it. I've always played but it's taken a back seat to electric.

Great videos, those!!

Thanks!

Those vids are all here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0A2burtz1C5pBnHUN_eqIA/search?query=lewis+cohen

Great work. Nice to see a cover of 'Chocolate Jesus'. Have you heard 'Wicked Grin' by John Hammond Jr he does a great version of 'Murder In The Red Barn'.

Cheers

Wicked Grin is a top 10, maybe top 5 album for me. Love it. Not sure I can pick a favourite off there, it's all so good.

jellyroll · October 2017

@Lewy Great videos! Your Good Ole Mountain Dew performance is FANTASTIC! And singing on top. Well impressed.

jellyroll · October 2017

Re-posting @Lewy here......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7V3fsncCzU

Jimbro66 · October 2017

Great singing and playing in that video @Lewy. I love that blue grass guitar style and the playing of the top guys like Brian Sutton and Tony Rice et all. I've been lucky enough to see some of them live. Ten years or more ago I was heavily into bluegrass dobro and on a couple of occasions played alongside Steve Kaufman when he was over here. I took some bluegrass guitar lessons from Steve who was a great teacher.

BTW has anyone here done the bluegrass guitar courses at Sore Fingers Week?

Lewy · October 2017

Thanks for the kind words!

Never did the guitar course but did do the Sorefingers vocal course when Mollie O'brien was the tutor. That year had Chris Eldridge from Punch Brothers and Tyler Grant (a Winfield winner) running the guitar courses.

Next year I believe one of the guitar course tutors is Courtney Hartman who is phenomenal. Sorefingers is generally an amazing experience, regardless of which course you do. I've only done it the once and having young kids mean it will be a while before I can disappear for a week of picking and drinking any time soon, but I'm itching to do it again.

A couple of years ago John Paul Jones turned up as a student on the mandolin course!

Did you ever see Tony Rice live @Jimbro66 ? Sadly I don't think anyone's going to get that chance again....

Jimbro66 · October 2017

They have such highly talented players teaching each year at Sore Fingers and, as you say @Lewy, the atmosphere during the whole week is amazing. I did the dobro course a couple of times in the early days of SFW and loved every minute of those weeks.

For anyone not familiar with Sore Fingers Week it is something that takes place a couple of times a year, once for bluegrass players and the other for Old Time players. It's held at a lovely old public school in Gloucestershire and most students stay at the school for the week, either in dormitories or private rooms. During the day there is tuition from top players in most bluegrass and old time instruments and vocals. Students are encouraged to form bands and can be seen practicing and rehearsing in small groups spread across the beautiful grounds of the school. The aim being to win the scratch band competition at the end of the week. Evenings are always the most amazing jam sessions where everyone if encouraged to take part. There are student players of all levels. The week culminates with the band competition and finally a concert given by all the tutors where the level of performance is phenomenal. It's not a cheap week but as tuition goes it doesn't come any better.

No, regrettably i never did manage to see Tony Rice. Among the players I have seen are Steve Kaufman, Jack Lawrence, Dan Crary, Larry sparks and Peter Rowan, Beppe Gambetta, Russ Barenburg, Orrin Starr and our own Chris Moreton. Maybe others I've forgotten. All fabulous players.

thomasross20 · October 2017

I'm sorry I've not had time to check out more vids and read replies but this is all very interesting. I MUST check out these courses you mention..

TheOtherDennis · October 2017

Lewy said:

If he was teaching beginning or intermediate players I’d agree wholeheartedly but he doesn’t put himself out there as that kind of educator - he only ever does advanced masterclass type things. People with aspirations at that level shouldn’t expect to be coddled and should appreciate the plain talking.

Bryan Sutton (guy in the original video above) IS a first class educator and is very nurturing to people of all levels and intentions. Grier never claims to be that.

Fair point, I guess.

On the subject of courses and stuff, is there anywhere I could learn some flatpicking stuff that isn't quite as pyrotechnic as some of the vids? That's not a criticism of the players or their music, just that I'm not capable of playing that level of speed (and god knows I've tried), so it would be good if I could get something a bit more Gardeners' World soundtracky, if you know what I mean.

Jimbro66 · October 2017

TheOtherDennis said:

On the subject of courses and stuff, is there anywhere I could learn some flatpicking stuff that isn't quite as pyrotechnic as some of the vids? That's not a criticism of the players or their music, just that I'm not capable of playing that level of speed (and god knows I've tried), so it would be good if I could get something a bit more Gardeners' World soundtracky, if you know what I mean.

If you'd like something on dvd then Homespun have some good tuitional material. Not sure if it's still available but Steve Kaufman had a Learning To Flatpick dvd set on Homespun that covered everything from basics to advanced. It included tab for a dozen or more popular bluegrass tunes.

@Lewy will probably have some up-to-date suggestions.

jellyroll · October 2017

https://www.homespun.com/shop/product/basic-bluegrass-rhythm-guitar/

thomasross20 · October 2017

Keep these learning recommendations coming! Anybody seen anything decent on jamplay or similar (for acoustic in general)?

Lewy · October 2017

There are some excellent online learning courses for flatpicking. Ones I have used:

Artistworks Flatpick Guitar School (taught by Bryan Sutton) - full curriculum for basic, intermediate and advanced, with Video Exchange. About £25 a month but for that you can submit videos to the best flatpicker on the planet and have him send back a personalised video response. Think you can do four video exchanges a month but even if you could only do one it would still be insane value. You get to see everyone else’s video exchanges too so there is a LOT of info available. Best option by far.

Sonic Junction - Chris Eldridge, another phenomenal player (from Punch Brothers and plays in a duo with Julian Lage). He picks a song or tune every month and does a lesson building it up from basic chords to solos. You can submit videos and Chris will comment, but no video exchange and the feedback is usually more encouraging than critiquing.

Peghead Nation - straightforward video lessons from Scott Nygard. No exchanges. There’s a flatpick rhythm course which would be a good starting point. And then a more comprehensive course after that.

Beyond that, Homespun Tapes and Stephan Grossman’s Guitar Workshops now have most of their DVD libraries available for instant digital download. The one that got me started was called ‘Flatpicking Guitar Country Style’ with Eric Thompson.

You can do any kind of music with this style but nearly all the tutorial material is bluegrass and old time country orientated, which may well be why more people don’t play this way.....

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