12 stringers

thomasross20 · October 2017

Who's got one (or more)?

I must admit I love them but have never owned one.

Are they really just a pain (twice as much tuning and re-stringing) and are they as "practical" as 6-strings? Would you tire of a full album's worth?

Just interested in your thoughts!

What are your fave 12 string songs?

guitarfishbay · October 2017

I've got one.

I loaned it out a long time ago and haven't asked for it back.

They sound lovely but they're terrible for resale (hence why I loaned mine rather than sell it). They do feel a bit more difficult to play but you can get used to it if you use light enough strings. If it's too heavy just detune and use a capo.

thomasross20 · October 2017

I think they're ok for a shot but I wouldn't get one unless I won the lottery

ToneControl · October 2017

and technically impossible to intonate (unless you have 12 saddles)

guitarfishbay · October 2017

ToneControl said:

and technically impossible to intonate (unless you have 12 saddles)

True but in fairness the chorusing is part of the character of the sound people generally like about them

Cirrus · October 2017

I've got a cheapish Yamaha one, think it was about £300 new in 2001. I very rarely use it because it doesn't stay in tune that well - get it tuned up and play a song, it'll be bugging me by the end of the second chorus.

It'd still be useful for recording, except that it doesn't sound very good - it's got that cheap acoustic nasal midrange resonance and lumpy low end that means miking it up is a frustrating task.

All that said, I love 12 string sounds. I'd just say that if you're going to get one, make sure it's good enough that it won't be frustrating to play. At which point you're paying money, so you have to be really sure you'll use it!

earwighoney · October 2017

Restringing a 12 string isn't as much of a PITA as one might think, restringing a Bigsby is worse and even a slot head acoustic.

Tuning can be ok but it's dependant on string gauge if you're using open tunings.

IMO, the worst part of playing a 12 is the impact on your hands, especially the picking hand if you are a fingerpicker.

AliGorie · October 2017

ToneControl said:

and technically impossible to intonate (unless you have 12 saddles)

eh, that would be me, having / playing a 12er that is. You probably saw this on the 'Music' section, posted a while ago.
As for why a 12 string - well some pieces just beg for that 'more is defiantly more' sound - this piece on a six'er - less is defiantly less

, maybe something to do with them part of the tune thats mainly played on the back (bass) strings.
As TC says in the quote - intonation can be an issue when playing intricate stuff up the neck as you can hear on this tune - but hey - over all whats a few cents of pitch when were having fun.

AliGorie said:

hi thought I’d post something.
As u’ll see I’m not actually ‘Ali Gorie’ - sounds something like (allegory) - I like it.
I put these tunes up years ago as part of my rehabilitation my daughter made me ‘do stuff’ whilst recovering from a heart attack !.
I’m fending off muscular weakening condition and failing, trying to continue playing though it’s hard to play for any length of time and fatigue is the main issue, not being able to 'drive the rhythm'. Hopefully I’ll manage to play (to my satisfaction) and maybe the odd live spot - and record some more.
hope ya like this -

oh, I've strung this guitar with the octave / norm strings reversed as most of the energy from the down stroke of the of the thumbpick would normally be going into the octave strings on the bottom end - which is where the melody lies - with normal stringing you'd hear those notes an octave higher - confusing the melody / accompaniment - if ya get what I mean.
anything u need to know - just ask.

AliGorie · October 2017

heres a good link to the Ausi / N Z luthiers forum with measurements etc for intonation 12 string saddles - there used to be pictures - maybe u have to log in ?
http://www.anzlf.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=354
I'd re route the saddle slot and make two step saddles for each course - but I'm to lazy.
btw that and the Official Luthiers Forum (in the states) are where to go for u'r real techie fix on all things acoustic and the voice of reason amidst all the s*it thats regurgitated on 'Acoustic Forums'.
http://luthiersforum.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=10101&sid=636ed21ec502c0fbbb376678f2c61b0f ;

TheBigDipper · October 2017

I love 12 string sounds!

I've got a Stonebridge (Furch) 12-string that sounds lovely. Not everything you might want to play will sound good, but for strumming or arpeggiating chords and single line riffs it can be glorious. It's no hassle to tune, because it rarely goes out of tune. Changing strings isn't too tough, either, as it has a standard headstock with 6 tuners/side. Nice wide fretboard, too.

Unlike my Ric 330/12, which is a pain in the bum to restring because 6 of the tuners are standard and 6 are classical-style rollers within the headstock. Narrow fretboard, which can be a challenge. However, also sounds glorious when you pick the right things to play on it.

On both, fingerpicking is difficult for me, so I don't bother - I use a plectrum for everything.

proggy · October 2017

I haven't got one but I do love them and plan to get one, maybe soon.

My favourite 12 string song is Wish You Were Here, which is also my all time favourite song anyway.

thomasross20 · October 2017

@AliGorie brilliant video! Thanks for posting that!

AliGorie · October 2017

thanx Tommy, sorry for the big blurb above.
Can I add one, the single most important one to me - it's that most 12ers that are made are for plectrum players - string spacing is generally to narrow @ the saddle. I'm used to Lowden and Bourgeois 6ers which are 'generous' and allow you to get in and under the strings to generate tonal / attack variations - which every tune should have - right

On that guitar, an Alvarez Yairi I've 'splayed' the sting pairs a little.
glad ya liked the tune

richardhomer · October 2017

I like the idea of one - I briefly owned a cheapish Yamaha in my teens. The trouble is, once I’d played Wish You Were Here, it didn’t see much use.

I’d quite like another - but (for me) it would be such a niche instrument, I couldn’t really justify owning one.

If money - and space - were no object, I’d get myself a ‘70s Guild.

LuttiS · October 2017

I got a 12 string a few years ago.. probably the best deal i ever got on a guitar.. was at a guitar show, saw a right wreck of a guitar, got it for £20 in the end.
Cleaned it up, polished fret board and restrung came up lovely.

My £20 12 string ftw! Sounds great, and not so tough to tune once you get the your head around it.

Never use it though.

TheOtherDennis · October 2017

I have a Levinson 12 string that I got half price from Sheehans a couple of years ago. I love it, it intonates pretty well, but putting a capo on it is awful - it only frets the low strings, not the higher strings next to them.

I don't play it that often, but then I don't play any of them often enough, to be fair. :-S

ToneControl · October 2017

I was bidding on a Lowden 12 string just now, but it was collection only so I only bid to £1111, it went for £1131
It must be hard to sell 12 strings if you can get a Lowden for that!

ICBM · October 2017

I have a '71 Martin D12-35 slot-head, and yes it is a bit of a pain to restring… but not that bad if you do it in the right order. I keep it tuned down to D, like all older 12-strings were designed to be before light strings were available - it just sounds better like that. It's fine with a capo (Kyser) for playing in standard tuning.

This particular one is a pain to tune from the open strings because like a lot of 70s Martins it was built with the nut very slightly misplaced (yes really), so you have to do a sort of manual 'sweetened' tuning to get it to sound right. But when it does, it really does sound beautiful.

I've used it on quite a few recordings, but it is definitely something you can't use on everything - it's too overpowering a sound, and needs to be used sparingly. I have occasionally wondered if I should sell it, since it's worth a fair amount - for a 12-string anyway - and I don't play it very often. But then I do and decide never to sell it...

Favourite 12-string song - I would maybe say Wish You Were Here but proggy beat me to that, so I'll have Queen's "39".

BigLicks67 · October 2017

I'll have - Ticket To Ride - The Beatles

richardhomer · October 2017

Free Fallin’ always makes me wish I had a twelve string around....

AliGorie · October 2017

TheOtherDennis said:

I have a Levinson 12 string that I got half price from Sheehans a couple of years ago. I love it, it intonates pretty well, but putting a capo on it is awful - it only frets the low strings, not the higher strings next to them.

I don't play it that often, but then I don't play any of them often enough, to be fair. :-S

ToneControl said:

I was bidding on a Lowden 12 string just now, but it was collection only so I only bid to £1111, it went for £1131
It must be hard to sell 12 strings if you can get a Lowden for that!

TOD, depending on what capo U have - I re- rubbered a Shubb which was almost flat for a guitar that had a higher radius f/b. Put on a thicker and more pliable silicone tube (laboratory equipment) if ya get what I mean - play with it.
Those Levinson's seem good - new to me.
yeah TC Lowdens have a well thought out string plane - to expensive for me - though that one sounded a bargain - bad luck.

TheOtherDennis · October 2017

AliGorie said:

TOD, depending on what capo U have

The wrong one, clearly!

I'll need to have another look at something other than a G7th, it seems a touch hard, so when it clamps down it doesn't indent enough to fret the higher strings on the low E, A, D and G.

Kalimna · October 2017

'39' eh? That's a song I've not heard in a long time. Damn fine one too.

markv · October 2017

I have a Taylor 150e. I bought it a couple of years ago because I'd never owned a 12-string, and this was the best at my price range.

My favourite songs to play are "More Than A Feeling" and "I Believe In Father Christmas". I'm learning "For Emily, Wherever I May Find Her" and bought a Shubb 12-string capo for it, which works fine. I would play some Byrds too but that obviously requires changing the octave pairs round.

I love having it here for a quick strum, because it's such a lovely sound, so I probably play it at least once a week, sometime more. I've also used it on a couple of recordings and it adds a lovely flavour that you just can't achieve any other way.

I have only had to restring it once, but it wasn't particularly difficult.

Kalimna · October 2017

I have a 20yr old Sigma DM-12 which, despite a broken G tuner, sounds wonderfully jangly for the price. Not difficult to re-string, just takes a while to stretch and let all the strings settle. Not sure how the nevk would cope with alt tunings, though...

Adam

richardhomer · October 2017

markv said:

I have a Taylor 150e. I bought it a couple of years ago because I'd never owned a 12-string, and this was the best at my price range.

I tried one of these when they first came out - and agree - they sound fantastic.

My only issue is the size of the things. I own a Dreadnought - but would prefer a smaller body on a 12 string. If they ever do a 12 string GS Mini, I’d definitely buy one.

markv · October 2017

richardhomer said:

My only issue is the size of the things. I own a Dreadnought - but would prefer a smaller body on a 12 string. If they ever do a 12 string GS Mini, I’d definitely buy one.

Yes, definitely. My understanding is that the original Taylor 12 string body shape was the GS, and that's what I would have got, ideally. But my budget was way off anything except the 100 series.

kt66 · October 2017

they are the most fun I have had fully clothed, I adore them, makes anything simple sound special, and the fun you can have with
tunings is endless. I have 1 acoustic and 2 electric 12s, all stay in tune as much as a six string,

kt66 · October 2017

Kalimna said:

I have a 20yr old Sigma DM-12 which, despite a broken G tuner, sounds wonderfully jangly for the price. Not difficult to re-string, just takes a while to stretch and let all the strings settle. Not sure how the nevk would cope with alt tunings, though...

Adam

I have an 89 DM12-1 Korean, still superb, never needed a set up.

Jalapeno · October 2017

12 strings are the sounds of angels, love them. The octave G string can be a right sod if guitar is tuned to E, always snapping - I'd recommend Eb or D tuning.

Open chords just sound stunning on a twelve string.

I WILL get one again sometime. I quite like the smaller / higher tuned twelve strings like Veillette Merlin or Gryphon, and the Emerald Articus - very flexible for 12 string and mandolin type sounds (without having to learn a new fingering).

fob · October 2017

I played a Guild 512 which I think is considered to be the 12-string of 12-strings. It was fantastic - even made me sound good. I think they are going back into production early next year so it will be interesting to see their price-point. The Chinese built versions are very good by all accounts but I've not tried one.

Can't believe Bon Jovi's 'Wanted: Dead or Alive' hasn't been mentioned. Nor John Butler - although technically an 11-string:

I thought I'd post that as I'm sure you've all seen Ocean.

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