Acoustics get expensive very quickly.......

ThorpyFX · September 2017

Pretty shocked to learn about Sobell guitars (typically £9k apparently and Monteleone Guitars (starting at £35k)... So i was wondering, who buys these? professionals? wealthy amateurs? Im shocked because people refer to PRS owners as dentists, this is one massive step above.

Has anyone heard or played any of these instruments? what were they like?

Are there any other brands that are similar? I'm really intrigued by the apparent workmanship.

http://www.sobellguitars.com

http://www.monteleone.net

jellyroll · September 2017

My favourite Sobell player (actually the only one I know but he's great).....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svS6MwQ5mBY

guitarfishbay · September 2017

jellyroll said:

My favourite Sobell player (actually the only one I know but he's great).....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svS6MwQ5mBY

I really enjoyed that

mgaw · September 2017

NK Forster guitars
Greenfield guitars
Fairbanks Guitars
any many others all conspire to relieve us of huge sums of money, You do pay quite a premium to the "established" builders, there is a Benjamin on here which i would bet is a corker for not a lot. Also i recently purchased a stunning J45 style guitar in Adirondack and Walnut from James Millman Guitars just up the road from me in Bideford.

As good as most i would say. check him out

crunchman · September 2017

Around 34 minutes for Monteleone:

Bidley · September 2017

My acoustic is insured for £5k. It was made for me and is the only one in the world, so that's where the cost comes from!

Never played one of those though.

Basher · September 2017

Sobells used to be seen about in the folk clubs - quite a lot of his mandolin family instruments too. They've never been cheap but I guess it's just about supply and demand. Martin Simpson played one for many years and, up close, it sounded utterly stunning!

An observation I have made is that while high end electrics tend to be less expensive, it's not that uncommon to find people with a couple of PRS guitars, along with maybe the odd historic Gibson or a CS Fender. The acoustic guys, on the whole, seem to own less instruments but keep trading/selling to get "the one". Maybe the same disposable income gets spent on less guitars while the hand-made nature of upmarket UK and US acoustics keeps prices high?

PS: a quick trip to TAMCO will show you just how much people are paying at this end of the market: http://www.theacousticmusicco.co.uk

earwighoney · September 2017

ThorpyFX said:

Pretty shocked to learn about Sobell guitars (typically £9k apparently and Monteleone Guitars (starting at £35k)... So i was wondering, who buys these? professionals? wealthy amateurs? Im shocked because people refer to PRS owners as dentists, this is one massive step above.

If you think of the boutique market for electric guitars there is one for acoustic guitars as well.

Acoustic guitars are generally more expensive than their electric counterparts generally as labour required to build an acoustic guitar (flat tops) is more than an electric. Then you have arch tops e.g. the Monteleone which takes even longer, the hours required to carve a spruce/maple top for a jazz guitar, the hours really add up.

I made a visit to TAMCO and played quite a lot of guitars and the build quality of some of the guitars are amazing and even the high prices are representative of their quality.

Btw, when you look at some guys pedalboards, amp, guitar rigs - I've seen some set up here which add up more than a Sobell.

Strangefan · September 2017

Beautiful however imo no new guitar is ever worth 35k!

dtr · September 2017

Olson guitars are expensive too - start at $15k. I guess for people a lot more discerning than me who can tell the difference from a $5k guitar. James Taylor started using them, and I guess that association (and whatever it was that he liked) helps keep the demand up and price high.

ThorpyFX · September 2017

earwighoney said:

ThorpyFX said:

Pretty shocked to learn about Sobell guitars (typically £9k apparently and Monteleone Guitars (starting at £35k)... So i was wondering, who buys these? professionals? wealthy amateurs? Im shocked because people refer to PRS owners as dentists, this is one massive step above.

If you think of the boutique market for electric guitars there is one for acoustic guitars as well.

Acoustic guitars are generally more expensive than their electric counterparts generally as labour required to build an acoustic guitar (flat tops) is more than an electric. Then you have arch tops e.g. the Monteleone which takes even longer, the hours required to carve a spruce/maple top for a jazz guitar, the hours really add up.

I made a visit to TAMCO and played quite a lot of guitars and the build quality of some of the guitars are amazing and even the high prices are representative of their quality.

Btw, when you look at some guys pedalboards, amp, guitar rigs - I've seen some set up here which add up more than a Sobell.

Absolutely, I wasn't (hopefully) critical of the price, I was just shocked that it was an order of magnitude above my psychological limit for an instrument. That being said, I have multiples of the instruments that fit into that bracket so if i were to sell them and own only one Sobell that would probably make more sense. Although its never going to happen as I prefer electric.

Stuckfast · September 2017

I see quite a lot of people at local folk clubs who play Collings guitars and others in that sort of price range, and some of them have three or four. Most of them are competent players at best!

ThorpyFX · September 2017

Stuckfast said:

I see quite a lot of people at local folk clubs who play Collings guitars and others in that sort of price range, and some of them have three or four. Most of them are competent players at best!

well, as long as they are happy. thats what its all about.

jellyroll · September 2017

ThorpyFX said:

Stuckfast said:

I see quite a lot of people at local folk clubs who play Collings guitars and others in that sort of price range, and some of them have three or four. Most of them are competent players at best!

well, as long as they are happy. thats what its all about.

Are BMW M4 drivers more competent than Skoda drivers?

I have a Santa Cruz and a Collings. And I'm incompetent. But, I don't drink, I don't smoke**, I don't have a car and I'll lose at most a few hundred quid if I ever sell the guitars. My money, my choices.....

I enjoy my guitars.

** I'm a barrel of laughs at parties

BigLicks67 · September 2017

Stuckfast said:

I see quite a lot of people at local folk clubs who play Collings guitars and others in that sort of price range, and some of them have three or four. Most of them are competent players at best!

They must be upmarket folk clubs that you are attending : >

CHRISB50 · October 2017

Have a browse through the custom section of the Acoustic Guitar Forum.

There are guys on there with deep pockets, and some beautiful builds.

A majority appear to be wealthy individuals or guys getting their 'the one' build made for them. There are a couple of pros who seem to have deals with certain luthiers.

slacker · October 2017

When the Bass Gallery first started, it was a little friendly place and Martin the owner would have a cup of tea with me. He would show me his bass builds. He told me that pattern was that amateurs would ask for exotic woods, one piece tops often with matched pickup covers, fancy inlays and custom electronics packages. The pro players would ask for the basic spec.

His view was that the amateurs treated playing as a hobby and the pros wanted something that got the job done.

I've never held with ability determining instrument purchases. I think that we as guitarists are too familiar with instruments and make judgements based on that knowledge.

I went to a folky open mic thing a few months ago, I made assumptions of the guitarists on the instruments they played. However there were two violinists, the woman had a brown violin and the man had a dark brown violin. He was competent and she was awesome. Did she have a better violin? No idea, it sounded better.

thomasross20 · October 2017

I'll have to read this thread. I do wonder just how much better a £kkkk acoustic is compared to a £1k model, for example.

ThorpyFX · October 2017

thomasross20 said:

I'll have to read this thread. I do wonder just how much better a £kkkk acoustic is compared to a £1k model, for example.

Me too..... however having played a brook torridge at £2500 I’d struggle to exploit the benefit myself as I just don’t have the subtlety and nuanced ability.

mgaw · October 2017

having owned a £5k guitar and now have a £2k the difference in this case is there, but not huge...mainly sweeter tone and incredible playability. Worth a trip to one of the Boutique guitar parlours:) to try a range of eye wateringly expensive guitars.

Personally speaking i think paying the same amount for a guitar as you would for a newish car is perfectly acceptable. and indeed should be encouraged, buy a banger and spend the extra £10-15k on a truly great acoustic!!

ToneControl · October 2017

thomasross20 said:

I'll have to read this thread. I do wonder just how much better a £kkkk acoustic is compared to a £1k model, for example.

they get significantly better up to £3k new RRP, then it's personal taste beyond that. You can find a stunner for £3k that plays exactly how you want, but there are far more stunners at £5k, but plenty of £5k+ ones that I hate
They vary hugely in the sound/response

ToneControl · October 2017

I'm more amazed how much people pay for bicycles

StanleyAccrington · October 2017

Whether I play my £150 Tanglewood or one of the more expensive acoustics in my local guitar shop.....the outcome is basically the same. I sound crap on both....so I'll stick with my Tangly.

AliGorie · October 2017

99 % of the guitar (steel string / flat topped) music that has meant anything to me over 55 yrs of listening has been played on sub 3k instruments ( at current prices). So the potential for great music /art is in these mainly factory / small shop instruments.
Anything over - say 5k is for other reasons and nothing to do with making great music.
And yeah, the Darrel Scott masterfully thrashing away on a for 'fingerstyle' guitar to many overtones holy grail box is sooooo funny - evidencing that you simply need good technique to control those Sobell excesses.

thomasross20 · October 2017

For my money .. still can't beat Larrivee. Honestly think they're the best bang for buck out there. Tried some £8k (!!) guitars that I thought were "meh!"

ThorpyFX · October 2017

thomasross20 said:

For my money .. still can't beat Larrivee. Honestly think they're the best bang for buck out there. Tried some £8k (!!) guitars that I thought were "meh!"

I have a very wonderful Faith Guitar and that is £800- love it to bits and for me its the ideal balance of quality and sound. i still lust for a brook though

Whitecat · October 2017

Be thankful you’re not a cellist.

Strangefan · October 2017

The fact for me is you don't need a 5k guitar to sound good, literally no guitar player I am into uses a boutique acoustic they all use either Martin gibson or guild, (and some takamine) and those sound as iconic as the songs played on them, for me technique and your own skill when it comes to your fingers has just as big a part to play,

earwighoney · October 2017

Strangefan said:

The fact for me is you don't need a 5k guitar to sound good, literally no guitar player I am into uses a boutique acoustic they all use either Martin gibson or guild, (and some takamine) and those sound as iconic as the songs played on them, for me technique and your own skill when it comes to your fingers has just as big a part to play,

Martins aren't cheap though, e.g. a new OM28 is just under £3k.

AliGorie · October 2017

earwighoney said:

Martins aren't cheap though, e.g. a new OM28 is just under £3k.

for 'Pro' musicians ?
I have a relation in a successful 'functions' band - corporate bashes and so on, he hasn't personally paid for any of his kit for yrs and he's got some of the best (keyboards etc) on the market.
So ya get a lot of that, with some 'guitarists' it's part of their brand ID, though only of interest to a niche audience.
various things at play here including the amateur player who has considerable expendable income.
But it is good for 'luthiers' as they get to build exclusive instruments in the best materials - some of them introducing 'must have / be seen with' features - I think their having a bit of a laugh really, what can we encourage them to 'desire'.

AuldReekie · October 2017

thomasross20 said:

For my money .. still can't beat Larrivee. Honestly think they're the best bang for buck out there. Tried some £8k (!!) guitars that I thought were "meh!"

As someone who until quite recently had three Larrivees, totally agree that they are great VFM and great guitars in their own right. I also own two NK Forster acoustics and a McIlroy and believe me there is a difference between them and the Larrys; the Forsters in particular.

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Acoustics get expensive very quickly.......

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