Acoustic for nimble lead playing/easy action

imalrightjack · August 2017

Hi all,

I decided recently that I needed an acoustic after going without for a few years. Having spent most of time lately playing a Pattern Thin-necked PRS, I found today's guitar shopping experience somewhat disheartening. All down to me, rather than the guitars, but I found everything I tried to be too muscular for my puny electric-guitar chops.

Any recommendations on finding something less stiff, easy to rattle around on and preferably still good for some loose chord work/fingerpicking.

If the answer is down to just setting up an acoustic differently (lower string gauge?), that's fine

Thanks!

ICBM · August 2017

Anything with 10s on - but it would then be better to avoid large, heavily-braced guitars (ie typical Dreadnoughts) as they don't sound good like that. If you get a lightly-built smaller-bodied guitar, they can sound perfectly good with very light strings, even though they do still generally sound better with something heavier.

Many of the more modern makers do acoustics with fairly slim necks which can be set up to give near-electric action and playability… although ironically, the fashion for electrics seems to be for baseball bat necks these days

.

Danji · August 2017

Taylor guitars are good for that, but stick with a heavier gauge. It'll take longer to get your hands in shape, but it's worth it.

BigLicks67 · August 2017

You could try shorter scale guitars, like the J45, or the 000-18. I think the Taylor GS mini may be a 24 inch scale. There will be less tension with standard strings on compared to say a 25.5 inch dreadnought.

imalrightjack · August 2017

Thanks for the replies. I'm toying with a Taylor grand auditorium as a good all-rounder. I had a Martin 000 and really liked it. This appears to be a near-equivalent.

ICBM · August 2017

Danji said:

Taylor guitars are good for that, but stick with a heavier gauge. It'll take longer to get your hands in shape, but it's worth it.

11s are actually a good compromise - the top three strings are noticeably lower tension than 12s, but the bottom three are usually the same gauges (apart from the bottom E being .001" or .002" thinner) as 12s, so you still get the big sound from chords.

AliGorie · August 2017

Eastman 'OM's' are actually 000's 1/10" over the 24.9 at 25" sale length makes the ideal for a lighter touch and easier for 'electric' techniques - bending etc, after all thats what el clapo chose - the 000.
their necks are neat modern profile.
They sound good as well.
because of the 25" scale producing less tension for a given gauge of string a set of 12's would 'drive the top' nicely and be flexible enough for a typical electric player.
go try 'em

Danji · August 2017

@ICBM totally agree, I'm 12s but now on all guitars. I don't bend the strings that often. I found 11s are a gateway string

AliGorie · September 2017

Ah the unfathomable string tension conundrum which reeks havoc over the pond.
1 st. there isn’t a standard - gauge = tension, I can’t speak for electric strings but acoustic ones come in different ’tensions’ for a given gauge, e.g. Newtone Heritage & DR Rares which are stated on both they’re sites as ‘Low Tension’ and I DO feel a difference in this and use DR Rares for that reason (it’s an age thing).
The way they 'play' with string tension is to vary the core wire diameter some up the wind wire slightly so the standard 'gauge' diameter dimension is achieved - and this is where much of the confusion comes from. They'll state the use a 'unique core to wrap ration' - yeah yeah.

This is not to be confused with ‘More Flexible’ which some manufacturers attribute to winding alloy PB vs. 80/20 and or Hex vs Round core - Hmmm I cant feel the difference solely on these variables.
One major aspect which is often overlooked is scale length affect on tension for a given gauge of string -
i.e. for a 12 gauge set the difference on a 24.9 vs. 25.4 s/l (pretty standard acoustic s/lengths) is -
144.5
http://chordgen.rattree.co.uk/tension.php?length=24.9&wmat=pb&smat=s&strings=E-4-.012-p,A-3-.016-p,G-3-.024-w,D-3-.032-w,A-2-.044-w,D-2-.054-w

150.4
http://chordgen.rattree.co.uk/tension.php?length=25.4&wmat=pb&smat=s&strings=E-4-.012-p,A-3-.016-p,G-3-.024-w,D-3-.032-w,A-2-.044-w,D-2-.054-w

from this string calculation spreadsheet site -

http://chordgen.rattree.co.uk/tensiontool.php#

now - what s/l are u used to, e.g. I believe PRS are -
* 25” on all guitars except
* 24 1/2” on the Santana II and III
* 25 1/4" on 513

so, quick guide to getting this potential minefield sorted out -
consider guitars scale length in conjunction with string set GAUGE AND STRING TYPE - norm vs Low Tension.
These observations are based on a ‘well set up instrument’.
happy picking

imalrightjack · September 2017

@AliGorie I think my brain just seeped out of my nose.

Have a wisdom.

Lewy · September 2017

AliGorie said:

Ah the unfathomable string tension conundrum which reeks havoc over the pond.
1 st. there isn’t a standard - gauge = tension, I can’t speak for electric strings but acoustic ones come in different ’tensions’ for a given gauge, e.g. Newtone Heritage & DR Rares + Sunbeams which are stated on both they’re sites as ‘Low Tension’ and I DO feel a difference in this and use DR Rares for that reason (it’s an age thing).
The way they 'play' with string tension is to vary the core wire diameter some up the wind wire slightly so the standard 'gauge' diameter dimension is achieved - and this is where much of the confusion comes from. They'll state the use a 'unique core to wrap ration' - yeah yeah.
This is not to be confused with ‘More Flexible’ which some manufacturers attribute to winding alloy PB vs. 80/20 and or Hex vs Round core - Hmmm I cant feel the difference solely on these variables.
One major aspect which is often overlooked is scale length affect on tension for a given gauge of string -
i.e. for a 12 gauge set the difference on a 24.9 vs. 25.4 s/l (pretty standard acoustic s/lengths) is -
144.5
http://chordgen.rattree.co.uk/tension.php?length=24.9&wmat=pb&smat=s&strings=E-4-.012-p,A-3-.016-p,G-3-.024-w,D-3-.032-w,A-2-.044-w,D-2-.054-w

150.4
http://chordgen.rattree.co.uk/tension.php?length=25.4&wmat=pb&smat=s&strings=E-4-.012-p,A-3-.016-p,G-3-.024-w,D-3-.032-w,A-2-.044-w,D-2-.054-w

from this string calculation spreadsheet site -

http://chordgen.rattree.co.uk/tensiontool.php#

now - what s/l are u used to, e.g. I believe PRS are -
* 25” on all guitars except
* 24 1/2” on the Santana II and III
* 25 1/4" on 513

so, quick guide to getting this potential minefield sorted out -
consider guitars scale length in conjunction with string set GAUGE AND STRING TYPE - norm vs Low Tension.
These observations are based on a ‘well set up instrument’.
happy picking

Actually I believe what you're feeling with Sunbeams IS the difference between hex and round core - I don't think they are a low tension string (the Rares are) but they feel it because of the increased flexibility. They're a great string, I like them a lot.

AliGorie · September 2017

Well spotted Lewy - I had in my mind that Sunbeams were low tension (thinner core) - theyre not.
I've amended the OP and stick with the - "round vs hex / PB vs 80/20 or other' - I cant tell the difference, though I do use 13-56 on a 25.4 & 650mm scale - beefy handfull (and tone)

Jalapeno · September 2017

Electric player seeks acoustic - the answer is usually Taylor, they have the most electric-like necks.

rossi · September 2017

I fancied a nylon electro acoustic but just couldnt find a neck that suits my small hands and short fingers .i split the difference and have ordered a Cort sunset NY semi solid .IElectric style neck .I played one last week and its perfect ...for me

thomasross20 · September 2017

I use 11s. Too heavy a gauge might end up ruining your hands imo.

AliGorie · September 2017

Tommy, string choice / gauge = tension over a given scale length is really dictated by what you want from a guitar and your music. If you play like Clapo (24.9 with 12-54) with relatively light touch / string bending and so on - then OK.
I Use a lot of playing technique bad though they may be, being self taught that rely on taught strings, this has come about over fifty years playing on and of. I have always had strong hands / fingers which allowed me to develop my playing in a direction that I could ‘work the strings’, sometimes quite aggressively to achieve the musical effect and tone I want.
I mentioned I use 13’s but I also only play in ‘tuning's’ so depending on the tuning ALL the strings are not always ‘up to normal pitch’ or tension.

thomasross20 · September 2017

That's all good.. I have thin nimble fingers and find the whole hand gets sore if I use too high a gauge. I need a hand transplant..

imalrightjack · September 2017

@Jalapeno You are indeed correct. Wisdom.

ICBM · September 2017

What's funny is that half the electric players now seem to like baseball bat necks fatter than anything you'd find on an acoustic newer than a 50s Hofner...

imalrightjack · September 2017

@icbm Pattern Thin PRS neck is my favourite. Perfect.

Jalapeno · September 2017

ICBM said:

What's funny is that half the electric players now seem to like baseball bat necks fatter than anything you'd find on an acoustic newer than a 50s Hofner...

Wis'd

imalrightjack · September 2017

In transit:

https://www.guitarguitar.co.uk/product/170817313439008--taylor-612ce

thomasross20 · September 2017

Agree about pattern thin neck.

Also, I was looking at that exact acoustic in the GG sale online..

imalrightjack · September 2017

@thomasross20 That'll be the one! It definitely isn't flawless, with a couple of small marks. They've offered £120 partial refund. Undecided.

thomasross20 · September 2017

If it's a brilliant guitar, I'd keep and take the cash. Lot of money .. depends how much you like it. Was it described as flawless?

imalrightjack · September 2017

thomasross20 said:

If it's a brilliant guitar, I'd keep and take the cash. Lot of money .. depends how much you like it. Was it described as flawless?

It was described as flawless - couple of scratches. I'll give it a proper play and see how it settles.

thomasross20 · September 2017

Let us know... In fact... Let me know. I was going to go to Glasgow try it (not buy)

imalrightjack · September 2017

@thomasross20 I'll report back!

imalrightjack · September 2017

imalrightjack said:

@thomasross20 I'll report back!

It's going back. The experience was marred by the marks. If I have blemishes on a guitar, I want them to be mine! Sounds lovely - but I think when I commit I'll go and play some in-store.

thomasross20 · September 2017

Fair game. It's in-store only for me for most things! And I hate too bang on about it but I've never played a steel string guitar better than my £750 Larrive.

imalrightjack · September 2017

God, this site does my head in on my mobile - formatting has gone tits up.

Labouring over the Taylor 724ce at £2,099 in Vintage Sunburst. Not the biggest fan of the non-natural look but high spec for the price. I enjoyed the 414ce a lot at the same price, so brand and size are pretty much decided (tried Maton, Larrivee, etc.), just down to which one and from where...

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Acoustic for nimble lead playing/easy action

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