Martin D18 or 000-18

Jonathanthomas83 · April 2017

Went to Denmark street to drool over guitars yesterday and ended up trying a few guitars:

Fender Paramount (P1?) - hmmm, attractive guitar but not for me
Taylor 700 and 800 series something or another - lovely looking but too bright for my current tastes
Maton (beautiful!)
Avalon (amazing)
Lowden (WOW!)
Martin D28, D35, D18 and 000-18 and another I can't remember

Sorry, can't remember the models of most. I loved the Maton and the Lowden was on another planet. But the stand out for me and my tastes was either the D18 or the 000-18.

I'm torn though, the 000-18 felt more comfortable but the D18 had something about it...they both sound gorgeous to my ears. Lovely, lovely guitars.

Am I missing anything or discounting a guitar that I should be looking at?

BigLicks67 · April 2017

Soundwise the D18 has a wider scope and is more versatile, whilst the 000-18 is comfier and easier to play due to the shorter scale. So it depends where your preferences are and what type of stuff you are playing. If you are an out and out strummer go for the D18.

Koa · April 2017

I don't think you can go wrong with either of those Martin models, different tone though as you've found. Body size makes a huge difference to the sound. I love the huge sound only a dreadnought can achieve but my 000 is my guitar of choice around the house, my kitchen guitar, surprisingly your ears become accustomed to the 'smaller' sound, it's all about dynamics too, i.e. What kind of player are you? Pick, finger style or strum.....

Jonathanthomas83 · April 2017

Thanks, guys, I love the fullness of sound on both. I love big chords and open chords. But I'm learning to do a lot more picking and single note arpeggio stuff. Fingerstyle is another ball game and I'm rubbish at it, be nice to have the option., though I imagine fingerstyle wouldn't be difficult with either of them. My heart says get the D18 for the big sound, but my head really, really likes the 000-18...like you, I'll be playing it around the house a lot more than taking it out.

VimFuego · April 2017

it's always tricky questions like this, cos it kinda depends on what you want and the sort of music you play. For me, even for strummy strummy stuff, I prefer a more balanced sound, so I'd probably go for the 000, even more so as I play a lot of fingerstyle as well. I don't really do the single note kinda flatpicking. However, if you do a lot of flatpicking, then I'd go for the D in a heartbeat.

However, you won't go far wrong with either, I've yet to play a Martin I didn't like.

Lewy · April 2017

You can flatpick on either, although flatpicking on the smaller bodied guitars tends to work best for players with a lighter touch. If you want to rip out Doc Watson tunes, and big rest stroke bass runs, go for the dread every time.

jellyroll · April 2017

Leave it a few days and then go back and try them both again. I'll give you good odds that you end up with something else entirely. IME the "right" guitar leaps out...and there is no decision to make.

jellyroll · April 2017

PS Go to Ivor Mairants if you haven't already. Try the Brooks and Atkins and the used Kronbauer...

ICBM · April 2017

Do you want to sound more like Neil Young, or more like Eric Clapton?

OK, they don't play those exact models, but the character of their sounds is pretty illustrative of the D and OOO sizes.

Or alternatively you could end up with both… I didn't mean to buy a Gibson dreadnought *and* a Gibson orchestra-size, it just somehow happened

.

Jonathanthomas83 · April 2017

Which style does Clapton play?

Johnspreyer · April 2017

It's sometimes a help to go and sit at the other side of the room/shop while someone else plays them for you to listen.

Lewy · April 2017

Jonathanthomas83 said:

Which style does Clapton play?

000-28

Jonathanthomas83 · April 2017

Ahhhh, that could be the one, you know!

@Johnspreyer, nice idea!

octatonic · April 2017

Dreadnoughts don't really do it for me.
I'd always go for an 000, or an OM.

AliGorie · April 2017

Lewy said:

Jonathanthomas83 said:

Which style does Clapton play?

000-28

thats Claptons style on an 000-28 - if you like what he does - well 'n good.
The MTV Unplugged has a lot to answer for, including Rod Stewart (sp) Unplugged WTF.
Just people milking they're back catalogue - on acoustic - don't mean they're 'acoustic players'.
As for Claptons (acoustic) tone - ??? I only hear a 'plugged in' tone.
Sure he's big in electric circles - ok
I'd like to see him )only him) walk on stage with a Greenfield or Michi Matsuda (read cutting edge instrument) and play half an hour (or more) of original music - from now.
rant over

Lewy · April 2017

AliGorie said:

Lewy said:

Jonathanthomas83 said:

Which style does Clapton play?

000-28

thats Claptons style on an 000-28 - if you like what he does - well 'n good.
The MTV Unplugged has a lot to answer for, including Rod Stewart (sp) Unplugged WTF.
Just people milking they're back catalogue - on acoustic - don't mean they're 'acoustic players'.
As for Claptons (acoustic) tone - ??? I only hear a 'plugged in' tone.
Sure he's big in electric circles - ok
I'd like to see him )only him) walk on stage with a Greenfield or Michi Matsuda (read cutting edge instrument) and play half an hour (or more) of original music - from now.
rant over

I'm not a Clapton fan boy, but he's totally a legit acoustic player - he plugs in a lot because he plays massive stadiums

And I think he could pretty comfortably fill 30 mins of originals!

Jalapeno · April 2017

I found the D series a tad too whumpy ( © Lewy ) when strummed, not very subtle (or pleasant). Maybe they mellow with age ... ?

Swapped my HD35 for a similarly specced 000 - (he wanted more oomph. I wanted less - win:win !

Lewy · April 2017

Jalapeno said:

I found the D series a tad too whumpy ( © Lewy ) when strummed, not very subtle (or pleasant). Maybe they mellow with age ... ?

Swapped my HD35 for a similarly specced 000 - (he wanted more oomph. I wanted less - win:win !

Although the HD35 is a special case when it comes to whumpitude (scalloped 1/4" bracing on a dread top is just a step too far imo). I don't think D18s are whumpy. Thumpy, but not whumpy.

AliGorie · April 2017

Lewy said:

AliGorie said:

Lewy said:

Jonathanthomas83 said:

Which style does Clapton play?

000-28

thats Claptons style on an 000-28 - if you like what he does - well 'n good.
The MTV Unplugged has a lot to answer for, including Rod Stewart (sp) Unplugged WTF.
Just people milking they're back catalogue - on acoustic - don't mean they're 'acoustic players'.
As for Claptons (acoustic) tone - ??? I only hear a 'plugged in' tone.
Sure he's big in electric circles - ok
I'd like to see him )only him) walk on stage with a Greenfield or Michi Matsuda (read cutting edge instrument) and play half an hour (or more) of original music - from now.
rant over

I'm not a Clapton fan boy, but he's totally a legit acoustic player - he plugs in a lot because he plays massive stadiums

And I think he could pretty comfortably fill 30 mins of originals!

oh ok Lewy - just a bit to contrived for me - Mary Whitehouse hair fop / architects glasses / vintage Martins and music from last century - not to mention the white blues thing.
BTW I meant original 'new' music - remember what Michael Hedges was doing on acoustic guitar over 30 yrs ago ? - wonder what he'd be doing if HE was still alive ?.

Jonathanthomas83 · April 2017

@AliGorie I don't get people who moan about music or musicians, if you don't like it, don't listen, which I'm sure you don't, but it's strange to me to hear anyone feel the need to bash a decent hard working musician, no matter their taste in music.

VimFuego · April 2017

Jalapeno said:

I found the D series a tad too whumpy ( © Lewy ) when strummed, not very subtle (or pleasant). Maybe they mellow with age ... ?

Swapped my HD35 for a similarly specced 000 - (he wanted more oomph. I wanted less - win:win !

odd you thought that. I only played it once but I seem to recall thnking your HD35 was a pretty well balanced guitar.

BigLicks67 · April 2017

ICBM said:

Or alternatively you could end up with both… I didn't mean to buy a Gibson dreadnought *and* a Gibson orchestra-size, it just somehow happened .

As above, definitely try a J45 before making a decision, not better but different. It's comfier than a dread and has a shorter scale like the 000-18.

ICBM · April 2017

Lewy said:

Jalapeno said:

I found the D series a tad too whumpy ( © Lewy ) when strummed, not very subtle (or pleasant). Maybe they mellow with age ... ?

Although the HD35 is a special case when it comes to whumpitude (scalloped 1/4" bracing on a dread top is just a step too far imo).

And a three-piece back, which is looser-sounding than a two-piece. For me the D35 body is best as a 12-string… which is why I have one

.

D-18s and even D-28s are less whumpy - the 18 is quite punchy and midrangy, although obviously still less so than a 000.

BigLicks67 said:

As above, definitely try a J45 before making a decision, not better but different. It's comfier than a dread and has a shorter scale like the 000-18.

And also sits somewhere between the Martin D and 000 in terms of voicing. The difficulty - with all Gibsons - is finding a good one, or even knowing if the one you're trying is a good one or not, if you haven't already played some.

I really wish I still had my '61 J-45. My biggest guitar-sale regret.

Lewy · April 2017

VimFuego said:

Jalapeno said:

I found the D series a tad too whumpy ( © Lewy ) when strummed, not very subtle (or pleasant). Maybe they mellow with age ... ?

Swapped my HD35 for a similarly specced 000 - (he wanted more oomph. I wanted less - win:win !

odd you thought that. I only played it once but I seem to recall thnking your HD35 was a pretty well balanced guitar.

They start that way- then once they open up, Whumpsville Alabama.Which of course can be very desirable for certain uses. Perfect for a self-accompanying singer songwriter using lighter strings I'd say.

Jalapeno · April 2017

Lewy said:

Whumpsville Alabama

Lewy · April 2017

ICBM said:

I really wish I still had my '61 J-45. My biggest guitar-sale regret.

Mine is a '57 SJ. There's some comfort in that I got back what I paid for it in when I traded it in (had joined a serious bluegrass band and needed a proper dread), but that guitar would be absolutely perfect for how I like to play now and I wouldn't get one for anywhere near the same money now.

Good Gibsons....thankfully so rare that few people have to know what it's like to have one get away from you....

artiebear · April 2017

ICBM said:

Lewy said:

Jalapeno said:

I found the D series a tad too whumpy ( © Lewy ) when strummed, not very subtle (or pleasant). Maybe they mellow with age ... ?

Although the HD35 is a special case when it comes to whumpitude (scalloped 1/4" bracing on a dread top is just a step too far imo).

And a three-piece back, which is looser-sounding than a two-piece. For me the D35 body is best as a 12-string… which is why I have one .

D-18s and even D-28s are less whumpy - the 18 is quite punchy and midrangy, although obviously still less so than a 000.

BigLicks67 said:

As above, definitely try a J45 before making a decision, not better but different. It's comfier than a dread and has a shorter scale like the 000-18.

And also sits somewhere between the Martin D and 000 in terms of voicing. The difficulty - with all Gibsons - is finding a good one, or even knowing if the one you're trying is a good one or not, if you haven't already played some.

I really wish I still had my '61 J-45. My biggest guitar-sale regret.

I know just how that feels. A few years ago I sold my old J45 to a good friend who loved it and as far as i Know is still recording and touring with it. I've tried a few modern ones, some of which were very good but very different from that one.

As far as the OP's search is concerned a great J45 would be a very good shout, a great picker and strummer with that lovely dry low end thump. That being said, the current 18 series Martins are very good value, especially since Martin revised them in the last few years to give a 1 3/4 nut width which makes them a little better for some as a pickers guitar. Add to that nice dark ebony boards and bridges with the toroishell scratch plate and they look the business , classic Martin. I think ICBM has it right in terms of a broad accessible description of the difference between a D and the 000. The shorter scale allows for a little more flexibility and snap while the D is more strident. Personally, I really like the dry immediacy of mahogany along with the short scale for finger picking.

Jonathanthomas83 said:

@AliGorie I don't get people who moan about music or musicians, if you don't like it, don't listen, which I'm sure you don't, but it's strange to me to hear anyone feel the need to bash a decent hard working musician, no matter their taste in music.

Well said. Anyone who is making a living making music, whether selling out the RHA for umpteen nights or working hard on a local scene is worthy of respect, especially from other musicians, who at least should have an inkling what it takes to be there. Anything else comes across as nothing but bitter and twisted. Sure we don't have to like everything and there is a place to discuss our preferences but why go out of your way to do it ?

AliGorie · April 2017

Jonathanthomas83 said:

Thanks, guys, I love the fullness of sound on both. I love big chords and open chords. But I'm learning to do a lot more picking and single note arpeggio stuff. Fingerstyle is another ball game and I'm rubbish at it, be nice to have the option., though I imagine fingerstyle wouldn't be difficult with either of them. My heart says get the D18 for the big sound, but my head really, really likes the 000-18...like you, I'll be playing it around the house a lot more than taking it out.

I have the solution to u'r dilemma Jonny - ya need one of these - a J-OM or Grand - OM - what ever they want to call it - I haven't seen them mentioned on this topic. Basically a deep bodied - Dread depth 4 7/8 ths OM / 000
What ya get is a bottom / mid-range end (sound) that can go down to B's and C's tuning wise but maintaining definition and balance along with a meaty treble end for lead line stuff - u'r ideal.
mine is a Bourgeois J-OM 1999 sent to the Frankfurt music fair, it didn't make it back to the states I pounced on it.
mine is similar to this design but with East Indian R/Wood b/s, Bolivian Rosewood f/board & bridge.

https://eddiesguitars.com/bourgeois-jom-banjo-killer-7461

Image: https://eddiesguitars.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/thumbnail/1200x/17f82f742ffe127f42dca9de82fb58b1/i/m/img_5619.jpg

how it sounds picked 'n strummed (please forgive the sound quality noise) -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXdGXIRSibo

AliGorie · April 2017

hey J, forgot to say - Lowden 'F' model would also fit u'r needs -
Lower Bought - 15 5/8" (398mm)
Soundbox Depth - 4 3/4" (120mm)
good for plectrum, strummed - or fingers

lotsa - well everything in a manageable size - just realized some makers call these kinda body sizes - 'Small Jumbo', for future reference.

crunchman · April 2017

artiebear said:
That being said, the current 18 series Martins are very good value, especially since Martin revised them in the last few years to give a 1 3/4 nut width which makes them a little better for some as a pickers guitar. Add to that nice dark ebony boards and bridges with the toroishell scratch plate and they look the business , classic Martin. I think ICBM has it right in terms of a broad accessible description of the difference between a D and the 000. The shorter scale allows for a little more flexibility and snap while the D is more strident. Personally, I really like the dry immediacy of mahogany along with the short scale for finger picking.

The more important part of the recent changes is the change to the bracing in 2012 to the pre-far style "forward-shifted" bracing. It makes any Martin Dread sound a lot more balanced.

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