humidifier for acoustics in the UK

musicman100 · February 2016

I'm just wondering what your thoughts are on using humidifiers here in the the uk. Do we need to use them or should we used them. If so which brand do u guys recommend. I've been looking at the humidipak? Regards dave.

ToneControl · February 2016

they are a very good idea, especially for solid-wood acoustics

I keep my guitars out of the cases, in a stable-termperature room, and use a hygrostat and room humidifier to keep them within recommended limits

Some people will tell you it doesn't matter. It does, all the makers say it does, and when you try it you find your guitars don't go out of tune, don't change neck relief, the tops don't shrink and expand, and you don't get corrugation effects on the top, or cracks.

don't get an ultrasonic one, they can make you ill unless you clean them every few days

richardhomer · February 2016

If a quality acoustic gets 'very' dry, it can cause a lot of damage - in particular splits in the top. The reason for this is that the top, bracing, sides and back all expand and contract at different rates as they gain of loose moisture. To keep the instrument in some kind of equilibrium, it needs to be kept in an environment akin to the one it was built in (typically 45-50% RH).

Where this becomes an issue is during winter months, in centrally heated houses. Radiators quickly dry the air to (sometimes significantly) below this level,

I keep my acoustics in their cases, in a room where the radiator is turned down significantly lower than the rest of the house. I have a hygrometer measuring the room humidity. In winter, it's about 40% - which is lower than most makers recommend - but only marginally so.

I tend to dry towels in the room to help keep the level up.

mgaw · February 2016

i started using a nifty gel pack in my acoustic guitars case and started always putting the Guitar in it whilst not playing, its never sounded better. Definite improvement in tone....

musicman100 · February 2016

What's a nifty gel pack?

thermionic · February 2016

I've always found the opposite - my acoustics absorb moisture and the top swells, raising the action. A lot of what you hear is from the US, where they have dry summers and cold dry winters when they have the heating on full blast. My hygrometer doesn't often read below 60%. There's been constant rain for weeks and not really that cold so the heating isn't on that much.

It's good to be aware of it though, whether it's too damp or too dry. Get a hygrometer and learn to recognise the signs of both on your guitar. Taylor have some youtube videos on the subject.

ICBM · February 2016

Move to Scotland.

CloudNine · February 2016

My house in Scotland is regularly hovering around 30% in winter, sometimes quite a bit below that on cold clear days with the heating on.

@ToneControl. Would you mind sharing your setup re humidifying the room? I currently keep in cases and humidify there, but would love to have a proper setup to keep the room stable. Don't mind spending a bit as have some decent acoustics to protect. The last humidifier I bought was thrown out after a week though, as got water all over the floor, although it did only cost £40....

mgaw · February 2016

musicman100 said:

What's a nifty gel pack?

planet waves do this

ToneControl · February 2016

CloudNine said:

My house in Scotland is regularly hovering around 30% in winter, sometimes quite a bit below that on cold clear days with the heating on.

@ToneControl. Would you mind sharing your setup re humidifying the room? I currently keep in cases and humidify there, but would love to have a proper setup to keep the room stable. Don't mind spending a bit as have some decent acoustics to protect. The last humidifier I bought was thrown out after a week though, as got water all over the floor, although it did only cost £40....

I did use Turmix AX200 humdifiers, which were silent, but they were recalled for a safety reason

I now use Boneco S150 humidifiers, which basically are heat-steam based, and have no active electronics, so if they are switched on and the mains power resumes, they heat up

to control these I use a plug-socket based hygrostat TH-8010H, which can be set to power up as a room gets too dry (or too damp - for tropical climates and dehumidifiers)

this one here:

I think this firm only sells through amazon now

I have a spare one of these

you can buy a humidifier with a hygrostat / humidistat built in

I advise not to buy ultrasonic ones, they are bad for growing bacteria

To clean old-school heat humidifiers:

firstly - if possible use a water filter on the water you fill them with. This almost eliminates scale build up

or: buy 500g or 1kg of citric acid from ebay or amazon, and use a teaspoon each time you need to descale (use on your kettle too)

ToneControl · February 2016

thermionic said:

I've always found the opposite - my acoustics absorb moisture and the top swells, raising the action. A lot of what you hear is from the US, where they have dry summers and cold dry winters when they have the heating on full blast. My hygrometer doesn't often read below 60%. There's been constant rain for weeks and not really that cold so the heating isn't on that much.

It's good to be aware of it though, whether it's too damp or too dry. Get a hygrometer and learn to recognise the signs of both on your guitar. Taylor have some youtube videos on the subject.

you must have a damp house, when it's below 5C outside, any dry house would get down below 40%, and even below 30%.

27% is possible even

if it's raining, it's not as bad, but any cold dry or snowy days should see your house drop to 30% RH

thermionic · February 2016

My house is not the driest, no. I need to move.

However, it's only been below 6 degrees outside on a couple of days this winter, and seems like it's been raining every day since the beginning of November. So for now at least, my Taylor lives in its case with only a silica gel pack for company.

sillymoustache · February 2016

In my humble, the first thing to buy is a hygrometer. You can buy an "Oasis" brand guitar hygrometer for £20-£30, or look on Ebay/Amazon for something identical (usually for vivariums or cigar humidors for about £7. (Buy two).

Put them in your room and/or in your guitar case for a while to see if you have a problem.

This time of year is the most worrying in the UK as we have all our double glazed windows closed and the central heating on which can reduce humidititty to 20-25% and this can cause cracks etc.

Best to keep guitars somewhere between 40-60% with 50% being ideal.

If you need to humidify your guitar - ther are lots of cheap, options - keep them in their cases with a perforated soapdish with damp sponge, or even just half an apple. (changed regularly).

I use small plastic perforated tubes with high density foam inside. Don't see much point in buying the commercial stuff for a bit of damp in the UK.
However, don't let anything get so wet that drips might fall on/in the guitar itself.

Frankly, I've never found summer to give me a problem humidity wise.

We have nothing like the problems the Yanks have with their high plains areas (Montana etc) rarely getting more than 20% or Texas /Louisiana etc., averaging at 90% for much of the year.

capo4th · February 2016

Most houses in the winter are damp / moist / wet even with central heating.

We use a dehumidifier to reduce condensation on the windows. I have it set at 50% humidity and it removes about a litre of water every 3 days.

Cooking, washing and drying clothes, showers and baths boiling a kettle all generate moisture in the air.

Condensation and damp is a thing of the past http://www.johnlewis.com/meaco-20l-platinum-dehumidifier/p1107148?sku=232830521&kpid=232830521&s_kenid=752cab14-77ba-4275-bb8a-5e3185b7dc24&s_kwcid=402x355695&tmad=c&tmcampid=73

octatonic · February 2016

I have a dehumidifier and a humidifier in the workshop.

They are run as and when- I am aiming for 50-60% RH.

When the central heating is on I usually have the humidifier on as well to counteract the radiator- but not always, today it hasn't been on.

A hygrometer is the most useful thing to buy- if you can't measure it then you can't fix it.

I don't bother with finished guitars- I've not had any issues.

capo4th · February 2016

Our climate is predominantly wet it is not a UK problem in my opinion.

nick_s · February 2016

I had to have one with my old Taylor. I had a Planet Waves thing that was filled with what looked like florists foam, that you lightly soaked with water (about a teaspoon at most) and it sat in the sound hole, clipped onto the strings.

When I got the guitar home from the shop, it dried out pretty quick and fret ends poked out, bridge sunk. A few days with the humidifier and all was well with the world.

CloudNine · February 2016

capo4th said:
Most houses in the winter are damp / moist / wet even with central heating.

capo4th said:

Our climate is predominantly wet it is not a UK problem in my opinion.

That is just plain wrong. I check humidity levels daily on several different devices for good measure, and I know plenty of people who do the same. It's definitely a UK problem in winter.

Low humidity can be horrendous for acoustic guitars, a centrally heated house on a cold day in winter can get well below 30% as mentioned in this thread. I would not leave my guitars sitting out for extended periods in those conditions.

It's nothing to do with the 'UK Climate' really, unless you leave your guitars in the garden. It's the climate where you guitars are being kept. Radiators cranked all day are not the 'UK climate'.

@ToneControl, thanks for the info!

capo4th · February 2016

Agreed radiators cranked all day would represent a problem.

Also consider that everyone's house is different in insulation, ventilation, windows, heating systems and humidity that is generated in the home showers washing cooking etc. Everyone's environment is different.

CloudNine · February 2016

capo4th said:

Agreed radiators cranked all day would represent a problem.

Also consider that everyone's house is different in insulation, ventilation, windows, heating systems and humidity that is generated in the home showers washing cooking etc. Everyone's environment is different.

Erm, but you said this.

capo4th said:
Most houses in the winter are damp / moist / wet even with central heating.

capo4th said:

Our climate is predominantly wet it is not a UK problem in my opinion.

Which is all completely wrong.

BRISTOL86 · February 2016

Sorry if this is a stupid question but if your guitar lives in its case all the time other than when being played, is action still required to check/control humidity?

Or is it only a real concern if the guitar is constantly out?

Lewy · February 2016

BRISTOL86 said:

Sorry if this is a stupid question but if your guitar lives in its case all the time other than when being played, is action still required to check/control humidity?

Or is it only a real concern if the guitar is constantly out?

Just my experience, but cases can absorb a lot of humidity in their plush lining so even in a room with spot on humidity, a sealed "wet" case can be over-humidifying your guitar. Desiccant packs do very little to take humidity out of a case - the only way to dry out a case is to have it open for a long time in a room that is at the right RH.

That achieved, I find a decent (i.e. nearly airtight) dry case can effectively protect your guitar from increases in room RH. But if you leave it open for a short while in a humid room, you're back to square one.....

richardhomer · February 2016

It's a fallacy that cases protect against sharp falls in humidity for any significant period of time.

My ex-wife had a penchant for really cranking the heating in winter. One day I took my Martin out of its case to find fret ends sticking out and a top so sunken that the guitar would barely play.

Personally I'd rather keep the room somewhere close to the right level, than trying to create a little ecosystem in the case.

BRISTOL86 · February 2016

Thanks chaps, so the upshot seems to be that monitoring the room and addressing RH levels accordingly is the way to go

crunchman · February 2016

It depends how hot you have your central heating. Lots of people I know seem to like it unbearably hot. If you keep it around 20C then the relative humidity will be a lot higher than at 24C. The key thing for relative humidity is the difference in temperature from outside.

If you live in a sheltered area in the South and keep your central heating at a sensible temperature it shouldn't be an issue. If you live in the wilds of Scotland and run your central heating at 24C you might have an issue. If you live somewhere properly cold (and/or dry) then you do need to actively do something. I bought a guitar in Sweden several years ago and they gave me a case humidifier with it as standard.

Living in London and keeping the central heating around 20 my guitars have been fine without needing to do anything. In winter we often have washing drying on radiators anyway.

BRISTOL86 · February 2016

Thanks crunchman.

Our heating has been set at 20 since it went on for the first time a couple of months ago. We crank it up a touch for half an hour here or there if we are feeling chilly but as a rule it's not on higher than 20.

It also tends to be much cooler upstairs (where the guitar lives) than downstairs in our house.

capo4th · February 2016

CloudNine said:

capo4th said:

Agreed radiators cranked all day would represent a problem.

Also consider that everyone's house is different in insulation, ventilation, windows, heating systems and humidity that is generated in the home showers washing cooking etc. Everyone's environment is different.

Erm, but you said this.

capo4th said:
Most houses in the winter are damp / moist / wet even with central heating.

capo4th said:

Our climate is predominantly wet it is not a UK problem in my opinion.

Which is all completely wrong.

Cloudnine I would recommend you turn down your heating to 20 degrees go and play your guitar and calm down.

CloudNine · February 2016

Cloudnine I would recommend you turn down your heating to 20 degrees go and play your guitar and calm down.

It's set right at 20 as it happens!

I wish you the best of luck with your damp problems, but it would be great if you could stop giving out rubbish advice on the internet.

:-h

jellyroll · February 2016

Would the lower. amount of stress in a classical/flamenco guitar make it less of a problem for those guitars?

richardhomer · February 2016

jellyroll;966192" said:
Would the lower. amount of stress in a classical/flamenco guitar make it less of a problem for those guitars?

No - it's all about the environment the instrument was built in. As soon as it gets significantly wetter or dryer, the wood moves.

Owing to the complex construction - and differing materials - say Rosewood and spruce - rates of expansion and contraction are none-linear, eg tops contract across their width - as do braces - some of which are at 90 degrees to the top - so effectively the top contracts and the cross braces don't. This causes the top to dip. In extreme cases, it will crack.

Classical (and flamencos in particular) are very lightly built. The impact of low humidity will have as much - if not more - effect as on a steel strung guitar.

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humidifier for acoustics in the UK

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