Guitar lute refinish.

bluecat · January 2023

I have got a fifty year old German made Perle Gold guitar lute that I would like to refinish. Would a gentle rub down with fine steel wool and finish with true oil bring back the lustre? I have never used true oil before,is it easy to handle? I refinished an old mandolin years ago but used a fine brush on lacquer which turned out pretty good but the lute is a lot bigger project and I don't want to cock it up. Any serious advice will be gladly received. Thanks.

Mellish · January 2023

With an instrument of that age, I'd want to take great care with it mate, so I'd be looking around for a pro to restore it.

Just what *I'd* do.

bluecat · January 2023

Thanks Mellish my friend for that. The instrument is worth quite a lot of £' s

I am quite handy with various wood finishes over the years. I am prepared to spend as long as it takes to get it right,as long as I know what is the right finishing medium that is recommended.

Mellish · January 2023

But you said you don't want to "Cock it up", so I took from that that you're not sure and, if that's the case, I'd say don't attempt it yourself mate.

Anyway, off to a gig. See what the guys say. Good luck.

LastMantra · January 2023

If it's worth a lot of money you sure you want to refinish it?

Mellish · January 2023

But you said you don't want to "Cock it up", so I took from that that you're not sure and, if that's the case, if say don't attempt it yourself mate.

Anyway, off to a gig. See what the guys say. Good luck.

EDIT: Sorry for double post

bluecat · January 2023

I think I will take your advice on that for the moment Mellish,I will give it a good clean and polish and see if it brings back some of its former glory.
Thanks.

Mellish · January 2023

bluecat said:

I think I will take your advice on that for the moment Mellish,I will give it a good clean and polish and see if it brings back some of its former glory.

Thanks.
Just be careful wit it mate. If you want to try a DIY, try a tiny area at first. But if in doubt, don't do it

chickenbonejohn · January 2023

I use TruOil a lot for finishing guitar necks, it is easy to work with but I wouldn't put it over an existing lacquer or varnish finish. It would be best to determine what the existing finish is by testing somewhere inconspicuous like behind machine head backplates. You might be able to check whether it is a nitro finish or French polish by carefully swabbing it with an appropriate solvent (cellulose thinners for nitro, methylated spirit for FP). Being German, it could be from the violin making tradition, so some sort of oil varnish or maybe shellac/French polish could be a possibility.

bluecat · January 2023

Thanks for that serious advice.

Mellish · January 2023

What museums use to protect wood as well as metal is Renaissance Wax.

Comes in a tin. It's white like candle wax.

BillDL · January 2023

Personally I wouldn't be touching the instrument with any abrasive or with any waxy or oily finishing products or polishes until I knew what the finish was and then decided what to do based on that. This would be especially important if there is any crackling in the varnish/lacquer, because trying to apply a new finish on top of anything oily or waxy could end up a real mess.

I agree with chickenbonejohn in that it would be best to first try and identify what the existing finish is.

If you press the finish in an inconspicuous area with your thumbnail does it dent or is it rock hard?

If it is rock hard you MIGHT be able to use a VERY fine hand buffing compound to see whether that restores the shine, but the finish could be very thin and easy to buff through. If it has even the slightest amount of softness, a buffing compound could ruin it.

You mentioned restoring the "lustre". Does it look as though the varnish/lacquer itself has become cloudy, or is it possible that with the right cleaning agent it might just be a top layer of accumulated grime that could be wiped off? As far as I know fine art restorers use denatured alcohol diluted with water and a cotton bud to remove grime, but you would have to know what your instrument has been finished with first before using something even as benign as that, and if the finish is crackled you don't really want water seeping between the cracks into the wood or it could start swelling and leeching under the finish.

Anybody looking to research this, the brand is "Perl Gold", not "Perle", and Google thinks it's clever, so you have to add -pearl at the end of the search terms to exclude pearl spelled like that.

https://www.guitar-list.com/brands/perl-gold

https://jedistar.com/perl-gold/

A lot of guitars, mandolins, lutes, violins etc built behind the iron curtain in East Germany were made by luthiers that used traditional methods and skills but, by the 70s, a lot of those that hadn't been able to migrate from behind the curtain/wall were already nationalised and will have conformed to different methods for mass production and the varnish/laquer used will most likely have changed. I wish I still had my c1970 East German/Czech acoustic guitar so I could have a look at the finish.

Just so we know what bluecat has, this is the instrument purchased new in 1973 (I remembered the Dec 2021 thread)

bluecat · January 2023

Thanks for that BillDL,you still have the picture I see!

bluecat · January 2023

OK BillDL the back and sides are rock hard,the top is some kind of spruce so softer. It has a few minor marks on the top where I rest my pinkie playing finger style,also a slight blemish on the back from buckle rash. The top is no where near as bad as Willie Nelson's top! Maybe a good polish will improve the appearance,the sides seem to have plenty of whatever finish it is ,just very dull.
I still don't know how you managed to post the picture from my files,you are a Wizard. G.

BillDL · January 2023

Not really a wizard at all bluecat. I pay a direct debit to the site each month that allows me to upload and post images from my computer, so I don't have to concern myself with whether or not it will work when embedding an image using a link to another website. In this case I just saved your image from your google Docs to my computer and then browsed to it to upload here. For the very small amount that is taken each month for this functionality it's so much easier.

Do you have any Brasso or T-Cut? They are both fine abrasive buffing compounds suspended in a low grade petroleum type solvent that is USUALLY harmless to hard lacquers like polyurethane or polyester. There are other more expensive buffing compounds used in the automotive industry that do the same job and MAY be safer (and less smelly to use), but both products mentioned have always worked for me in removing the oxidised top layer of lacquer and small scratches with no disastrous effects on hard lacquer finishes. Wipe on with a soft cotton cloth (old T-shirt) and rub in circles for a while turning the cloth to a fresh piece frequently, then allow to dry to a white haze, and buff off with a clean cloth. If you choose to risk this I would ONLY do it on the back and sides AFTER testing on an inconspicuous area and ONLY IF the lacquer isn't crackled where the wet solvent can't leak into the cracks and leave impossible to remove white residue in the cracks.

You definitely would not want to try this on the soundboard that appears to have bare wood where your pinky has worn it. Ideally that bare wood needs to be protected from contaminants. I would guess that a lot of repair people would apply something like Shellac to protect the bare wood. Some kind of waxy polish would probably soak into the wood and protect it from sweat and moisture, but it would also leave a residue in the wood that could make any application of Shellac or lacquer impossible at a later time, especially if the polish had silicones in it.

Maybe one of the guitar builders or people that have made a living from guitar repairs will see this question and offer more expert advice, so I would hang off for now to see.

bluecat · January 2023

Thanks BillDL,will try T cut on back and sides.

octatonic · January 2023

BillDL said:

Personally I wouldn't be touching the instrument with any abrasive or with any waxy or oily finishing products or polishes until I knew what the finish was and then decided what to do based on that. This would be especially important if there is any crackling in the varnish/lacquer, because trying to apply a new finish on top of anything oily or waxy could end up a real mess.

This.

I did a lutherie degree, where I did a partial refinish to a 100 year old instrument (French polish).
It was a moderately horrible experience.

A lot of older instruments are oil varnish or spirit varnish (shellac).
Do not put tru oil over shellac.
It is pointless.

You need to know what finish it has.
Take it to an expert and find out.

It also might have been fiddled with by a previous owner.
A lot of instrument restoration and conservation is based on fixing or mitigating the poor workmanship of amateurs who 'had a go'.

bluecat · January 2023

I have had it from New,BillDL.

BillDL · January 2023

Yep, I know that. Bought new in 1973 was what you mentioned in your 2021 thread. Sorry, did you take offence when I mentioned a build up of "grime" in one of my previous comments.

bluecat · January 2023

No not at all.

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