Manufacturer warranty Vs local luthier

thomasross20 · October 2022

So I've decided I want to refine my Avalon further to make the playability 100% perfect (for me as I'm a fussy bugger!). I got the saddle shaved recently by a local tech but it's not quite there. Avalon say although this voids warranty, they will still take it in for a free check (other than parts, if needed) for £70 return to Ireland. Very good of them.

Prior to them telling me this I'd booked a luthier in Perth, an hour from me. Think will cost more but seems very good, it's a bespoke service where I sit with him for 2 hours while he does some work on it, I try it in person and he explains the process (the main advantage here is immediate feedback as I'm picky about action). There's no going back to Avalon after this I would think. No shipping "hazard" with this option.

Thoughts?

Mellish · October 2022

I'd say do your homework.

There's good techs and those who are not so good. But at least if you're there, whatching, that's a good thing.

BillDL · October 2022

Probably a bit late, but personally I would have asked the luthier that reduced the saddle height to have ordered a matching spare saddle, adapted that to thickness and width, and had that filed or sanded to a suitable height. That way if something else later happened to the guitar that required sending it back to the builder you could simply have reinstated the original saddle and they would have been none the wiser.

As far as I am concerned filing a bit off your own saddle yourself is part of an acoustic guitar setup to personalise the guitar without having to be a professional luthier and should have no bearing on warranty. Would THAT have invalidated the warranty or is it simply the case that the builder doesn't like independent luthiers touching the guitar for what is a very simple job? You aren't going to damage anything else by lowering the saddle, so I really don't know what the big deal is. I realise that some warranty clauses are strange, like the very restrictive conditions that Ferrari tie customers to when they buy one of their cars.

thomasross20 · October 2022

Agree about lowering saddle not being a big thing tbh. So yeah both options are good - might be leaning toward in-person set-up next week but will see

octatonic · October 2022

Lowering a saddle voids the warranty?
Get to fuck.

I would absolutely chase that up with Avalon and get in writing that lowering the saddle does not void the warranty.
Saddles and nuts are consumable products like strings.
They wear out over time and should be replaced.

Are you taking it to a luthier, or a repairer?
Luthier is a contentious term- it implies advanced skill than many repairers simply do not have, despite using the term.

thomasross20 · October 2022

Luthier - I previously took it to a tech. The saddle had been lowered to help with action but the string break angle is now a bit shallow. New guy is an hour's drive away (David Antony Reid) - seems to get a good name and is a luthier.

danishbacon · October 2022

thomasross20 said:

...., it's a bespoke service where I sit with him for 2 hours while he does some work on it, I try it in person and he explains the process (the main advantage here is immediate feedback as I'm picky about action).

Reminded me of this sign a mechanic I used years ago used to have up in his shop:

Mellish · October 2022

What is the life of the warranty?

If, like Martin/Gibson, it's very limited, then going to a competent Luthier and voiding the warranty isn't a big deal.

On the other hand, if it's for the lifetime of the guitar like, say, Atkin (I believe).....

FelineGuitars · October 2022

It was Avalon when they were bearing the Lowden name 25 years ago that said to me that guitars needed to go back to them for truss rod adjustments - the truss rod adjuster was/is positioned behind a lateral brace that makes getting any key in there all but impossible. I thought that was a bit daft as things could easily shift in transit and change of environment.

I would see that a saddle height adjustment should have no bearing on warranty

However the idea of a replica saddle cut to optimal height is a great idea to make it so the guitar could be returned to factory conditions should it need to be .

I have often felt that owning a second saddle of a slightly different height might be useful to players whose guitars are affected by changes in seasons - in fact when Martin had a non adjustable truss rod it was almost a "must-have"

malcolmkindness · October 2022

I can't see how lowering the action by sanding the saddle should affect a warranty, it's simply maintenance surely?

thomasross20 · October 2022

Ah just to note the tech did also previously adjust their truss rod one quarter turn - it may have been that which voided it. Not trying to create a hoo-ha

And yes, access to the Avalon truss rod is very tricky. Replica saddle is indeed a very good idea and noted for future. Can't recall how long the warranty is for.

drofluf · October 2022

If you're comfortable with the warranty situation I'd take it to the luthier; apart from removing the risk of damage in transit probably, given that we don't know how you drive

, if it's not perfect first time you can get it fine tuned.

thomasross20 · October 2022

Yep - next Friday I'm booked in to get both my acoustics a quick check. If anything "big" (99.999% doubtful) needs done, can use Avalon else will get the guy to tweak it while there.

MSedg · October 2022

Shaving the saddle down voids the warranty? New one on me. Combined with inability to adjust the truss rod I guess Avalon’s off the list, they don’t sound particularly player-friendly. A shame because I’d always fancied trying a D300, but inability to adjust to player preferences/weather/different string gauges without voiding a warranty rules it out. A bit short-sighted on their part to be so prescriptive, in my view…

malcolmkindness · October 2022

thomasross20 said:

Ah just to note the tech did also previously adjust their truss rod one quarter turn - it may have been that which voided it. Not trying to create a hoo-ha And yes, access to the Avalon truss rod is very tricky. Replica saddle is indeed a very good idea and noted for future. Can't recall how long the warranty is for.

Again, that seems bizarre. All very well if you are local, but this company is selling internationally! If this is indeed their policy, I'm sure they don't advertise it.

TheMadMick · October 2022

Interestingly, my first Avalon had the Velcro for the pick up battery holder over the truss rod adjustment. When I asked, I was told that they had several butchered. They then sent replacement Velcro and 2 (short) 5mm Allen keys. However, when I asked them to move the battery Velcro when it was back for adjustment, it came back with the battery Velcro moved (exactly where I haven't checked but it's not over the truss rod adjustment).

Might be worth a phone call to Steve McIwrath to get the matter cleared up. I think any claim that was not attributable to the saddle adjustment would stand and you could take them to the small claims court if they didn't play ball. I've found simply the threat of the small claims court often does the trick.

I stress, you need to get clarity before any small claims go ahead. E mail should be sufficient. If they don't e mail you, e mail them with the agreement and let them contradict it.

Good luck. Lovely guitars though!

thomasross20 · October 2022

Honestly guys, it's all good.. they're good to deal with and the guitars are great. Don't let this put you off an Avalon. Anyway I'm going to take to local luthier and hopefully get the action just as I want it.

Soupman · October 2022

Adjusting the truss rod invalidates the warranty??!!
So every time you change string guage/tension you are supposed to send it back to them to tweak the truss rod?
There's lots of great guitars out there - stuff 'em.

ToneControl · October 2022

I'd assume that lowering the saddle would just mean that Avalon wouldn't want to get involved in remediating the saddle if it had been done incorrectly, i.e. "voids the warranty for the saddle itself"

Avalon have never said anything to me about truss rod adjustments being forbidden, they've been happy to tell me what size key to use when I've asked

Also: you can use a rosewood or ebony shim underneath the saddle if you want to raise the action, not essential to get a new saddle

thomasross20 · October 2022

That's a good point - Larrivee put a shim under theirs usually - I removed it and it was then the perfect height for me.

maltingsaudio · October 2022

Was going to suggest you take it to Jimmy Moon in Glasgow but he’s moved to Arran! But from the website Don't forget - Stephen Devine - our long time employee has carried on at the Glasgow address and his focus is on structural repairs and refinishing. He has the same phone number as before (0141 632 9526) and his email is Devineguitarrepair@gmail.com

Dave_Mc · October 2022

BillDL said:

I realise that some warranty clauses are strange, like the very restrictive conditions that Ferrari tie customers to when they buy one of their cars.

Yeah the "You have to be really rich" clause is a real pain...

BillDL · October 2022

maltingsaudio said:

Was going to suggest you take it to Jimmy Moon in Glasgow but he’s moved to Arran! But from the website Don't forget - Stephen Devine - our long time employee has carried on at the Glasgow address and his focus is on structural repairs and refinishing. He has the same phone number as before (0141 632 9526) and his email is Devineguitarrepair@gmail.com

Hmmm. I'm not sure that an East-Coaster will be able to understand what us West-Coasters, especially Glaswegians, are saying. They are kind of odd people through there and they speak all funny

Interesting that Jimmy Moon has moved to Arran. That's where he spent about 6 or years honing his craft before moving to the mainland. He's no spring chicken and I hope he is able to relax, scale back, and enjoy the island life again.

thomasross20 · October 2022

All booked up with the guy in Perth, been watching his YouTube videos which are pretty good. Have been in comms with Avalon also - they are good to deal with and their guitars are great so hopefully nobody put off. Thanks for that recommendation though and now noted!

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Manufacturer warranty Vs local luthier

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