High action...

Monkeybone · August 2014

Rather than fork out money I don't have on a Taylor 150e 12 string (one of which, typically, the singer in my band has just bought), I've decided to try to sort out the 12 string I already have. When I first got it it was surprisingly easy to play, but now the action is ridiculously high. I am a total novice when it comes to acoustic maintenance, would adjusting the truss rod remedy this? And if so, how careful do I have to be to avoid neck breakage?

sweepy · August 2014

First things first, check to see how much of the white plastic/bone saddle is sting proud of the wooden bridge, if there is more than 4mm etc there is a good chance you can sand the base down on a flat surface, It might be worth asking about if there is a local tech though, as he'd also recut the nut slots etc etc and make it far more playable.

FelineGuitars · August 2014

First put a capo on at the first fret

Then hold the strings down at the 14th fret

There should be little or no gap under the strings and the top of the 7th fret

If there is a fair gap then the truss rod will possibly help.

If there is no gap but the action without holding the strings down is high then you may need to resort to lowering the bridge saddle

Monkeybone · August 2014

I think the saddle looks OK. Neck wise, using the capo method, there is a small gap, 1-2mm at a guesstimate (I'm rubbish at estimating distances/sizes), however to me it looks like there is a bowing of the neck.

Edit: There is a definite bowing to the neck.

koneguitarist · August 2014

Monkeybone said:

I think the saddle looks OK. Neck wise, using the capo method, there is a small gap, 1-2mm at a guesstimate (I'm rubbish at estimating distances/sizes), however to me it looks like there is a bowing of the neck.

Edit: There is a definite bowing to the neck.

Drop it round sometime, show you how to do it while you wait.

Monkeybone · August 2014

It might be a bit short notice to ask if you could look at it this weekend (even moreso as I'm working tomorrow plus was thinking of using it for the band's acoustic gig on Sunday. I do like leaving things to the last minute...) but I think I will take you up on that offer, thanks.

ICBM · August 2014

Monkeybone said:

I think the saddle looks OK. Neck wise, using the capo method, there is a small gap, 1-2mm at a guesstimate (I'm rubbish at estimating distances/sizes), however to me it looks like there is a bowing of the neck.

Edit: There is a definite bowing to the neck.

1-2mm is a HUGE gap. Even if it's only 1mm, it's still far too much. The gap needs to be about the thickness of the top E string at most.

That's a job for the truss rod - which was the most likely anyway since you said it played well enough before, so either the neck has bowed forward or the top has "bellied" up, there's no other possible explanation.

Tightening the truss rod is pretty easy - making sure you get a tool which fits it *properly*, and not "just about", so it won't slip - and contrary to popular myth it's almost impossible to break one or damage the neck unless you use obviously excessive force (like the sort you would use to tighten a wheel nut on a car!) or the rod is faulty to begin with. The rod nut will usually be fairly stiff to turn, at least at the first movement - this is normal.

Tighten it in small increments - one side-to-side movement of the tool, which is normally 1/6th of a turn. You do not usually have to slacken the strings to adjust the rod. Leave it to settle for a few minutes - not overnight, as you will sometimes see recommended - and check the relief in the same way, then repeat as necessary. It's quite likely that if you do leave it overnight it will still need another small adjustment as the wood compresses, so check it again the following day… but if you do that between every adjustment you'll be at it for weeks!

koneguitarist · August 2014

I would disagree a bit here, there is an incredible amount of stress on a 12 string neck, I would de tune at least a tone across the board. Do you have my number Ollie ?

ICBM · August 2014

koneguitarist said:

I would disagree a bit here, there is an incredible amount of stress on a 12 string neck, I would de tune at least a tone across the board.

I never do. De-tuning a tone won't make much difference anyway, you would need them a lot slacker than that.

There's actually not that much stress on a 12-string neck either - a set of double 10s (the standard gauge for a 12-string) only has about the same overall tension as a 6-string set of 14s, which while higher than a set of 13s (medium gauge) is not *that* much higher.

koneguitarist · August 2014

I certainly would not take the chance, to me it's a golden rule, tighten truss rod with loose strings, loosen truss rod with tight strings. Sounds fairly common sense to me to not take risks with someone else's guitar.

ICBM · August 2014

If it was a risk I wouldn't do it. It's not a risk.

The truss rod is designed to handle the tension when the strings are tuned to pitch, and it is not under any more when it's being tightened, so there is no reason to slacken the strings.

The only exception to this is old (pre-1985) Rickenbacker rods, which work in a very different way from any other design and definitely can be damaged by tightening them under tension, but you're supposed to relieve it by manually bending the neck back to the correct position and then tightening the rod to lock it into place, not by slackening the strings.

If you need to lower the tension on any rod to tighten it, this is far more effective than slackening the strings.

koneguitarist · August 2014

The tension will obviously increase as strings rise in pitch. I will agree to disagree ok.

ICBM · August 2014

koneguitarist said:

The tension will obviously increase as strings rise in pitch. I will agree to disagree ok.

Yes of course, but you're still not putting more tension on the rod than it will be under when you tune back up to pitch.

Monkeybone · August 2014

koneguitarist;329596" said:
I would disagree a bit here, there is an incredible amount of stress on a 12 string neck, I would de tune at least a tone across the board. Do you have my number Ollie ?

I know it's a long shot, but you wouldn't be able to look at it today would you?

koneguitarist · August 2014

Monkeybone said:

koneguitarist;329596" said:
I would disagree a bit here, there is an incredible amount of stress on a 12 string neck, I would de tune at least a tone across the board. Do you have my number Ollie ?
I know it's a long shot, but you wouldn't be able to look at it today would you?

Yes!

koneguitarist · August 2014

ICBM said:

koneguitarist said:

The tension will obviously increase as strings rise in pitch. I will agree to disagree ok.

Yes of course, but you're still not putting more tension on the rod than it will be under when you tune back up to pitch.

Think you need to re read that.

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