Nut Slotting

Devil#20 · June 2022

Had a couple of low frets on one of my acoustics so I fret levelled them and recrowned the frets. Because of the nature of the low frets I've had to remove off all of them. Restrung and adjusted the truss road and now no buzzing frets. However....now when I barre at the first fret I need a grip like a tyre-fitter to get the B and G strings fretted which tells me the nut slots are too high. I can barre OK from 2nd fret upwards. How do I go about setting the slot heights. Would I be better filing the slots or removing material off the bottom of the nut. It's only held on under string pressure so would be easy to do.

DavidR · June 2022

I think I would measure each string height first with a string height guage.

MusicNomad MN601 Precision Nut Height Slotting Gauge Tool : Amazon.co.uk: Musical Instruments & DJ

If all strings are high, sand off the bottom of the nut. It's good it comes out and slots back in easily, often they don't. If there's a differential height problem across the strings you will need to adjust each one separately by filing the slots and you will need specialist nut files (not cheap) to do that. I have these on below link and they're brilliant, but there are others. Do this slowly. I just do 5 file sweeps of the slot and then refit the string, remeasure and trial play, then repeat until I get correct height.

MusicNomad 6 Piece Acoustic Guitar Diamond Coated Nut File Set With Case - Guitar.co.uk

Interesting to see what others say. Especially proper luthiers rather than keen amateurs like me!

TheMadMick · June 2022

I'd only reduce the slot heights if you're really sure what you're doing. Given the cost of nut files, it's probably cheaper to get a luthier to do it right.

Mellish · June 2022

If it turns out that you need to remove from the bottom, be careful to keep it level and square.

If there's an old nut lying around to practice on, that would be great

Devil#20 · June 2022

I've only got cheapo nut slot files and I've never used them so removing from the bottom of the nut would be preferable. Is either method equally acceptable?

Winny_Pooh · June 2022

Start off by reducing from the bottom until one string has the lowest acceptable height. Then look at reducing the slots. If you go too far tape up all around the slot then add baking soda and superglue to build back up. Best way to learn is make mistakes

Whistler · June 2022

Devil#20 said:

I've only got cheapo nut slot files and I've never used them ...

In which case I would say buy a few cheap plastic nuts and practice with them. Once you have got the hang of it get yourself the nut of your choice, whether bone, Tusq or something esle, and do it for real.

As for keeping the (final) nut in place, two drops of superglue will be sufficient and allow you to remove the nut at a later date should you need to.

Mellish · June 2022

It depends mate. You can see it,
we can't.

As Mick there says, filing the slots isn't easy to get right, especially if you've never done it before.

On the other hand, removing from the bottom might not be ideal if the string heights are different enough to cause an issue.

Honestly? I'd go to a tech. You could save the cost of a new nut

Devil#20 · June 2022

Thanks for the advice. It's a bone nut so I might buy a cheaper one and see if I can get that right and then use that as an indication to see if I can get the existing nut right. What height should I aim for between first fret and string and do I need to clamp a capo to the neck and if so where on the neck? The action is a bit high now so I'm hoping sorting the nut out will sort that and I don't have to start buggering about at the bridge end. I'm going to see how good I can get this guitar to give me confidence in setting up my better acoustics. I've dealt with high frets before which, by comparison are much easier to deal with than low frets because you end up with removal on more frets and more work. I've done about 3 hours work on this one so far. If I can sort the action out it's going to be great when I've put a new set of strings on it. At the moment I'm keeping the old one's on just for setting up. They ideally need replacing.

Tannin · June 2022

Mellish said:

If there's an old nut lying around

That would be me.

Mellish · June 2022

bertie · June 2022

use an (thumb over top) F barre not an E barre

there, no need to thank me

Mellish · June 2022

Bass E 0.023", high E 0.013" at first fret?

Mellish · June 2022

Just measured mine.

Bass E 0.018", high E 0.014" at first fret

bertie · June 2022

Devil#20 said:

Nut Slotting

is that some new fangled kind of Tea Bagging ?

Devil#20 · June 2022

Mellish said:

Just measured mine.

Bass E 0.018", high E 0.014" at first fret

Is that unfretted? ie. measured as is because that would be affected by neck relief. I'd have thought you would need to fret the guitar on the neck and measure ht at 1st fret from there.

Devil#20 · June 2022

bertie said:

Devil#20 said:

Nut Slotting

is that some new fangled kind of Tea Bagging ?

I worry about you sometimes. I like you, you do seem OK, but I do worry about you.

Mellish · June 2022

Just a feeler gauge under strings at first fret,
mate, no fretting, no capo

Mellish · June 2022

@Devil#20 ; - but you should start with relief. Relief, nut, saddle.

My relief is 0.05" at the 7th if it helps (capo first fret, fretted at 14th

roberty · June 2022

I actually lowered a couple of slots on my Harley Benton today (ie not a big deal if I mess it up). I took an A string and folded a piece of fine grit sandpaper around it and used that to lower the E string slot, and I used a D string for the A string slot. I just took them down a fraction of a mm each. It worked. In fact it took surprisingly little to get them down to the height I wanted. Would be very easy to overdo this

Keefy · June 2022

I use the technique set out in Dan Erlewine’s ‘Guitar Player Repair Guide:

Measure the fret height by stacking up feeler gauges under a string or straight edge between the first and second frets. Add 5-10 thousands of an inch to the stack and place it under the strings next to the nut. File the slot at a slight angle down towards the headstock and when you feel the file bite on the metal feeler gauges, stop.

Check out the book for the full description.

Devil#20 · June 2022

Keefy said:

I use the technique set out in Dan Erlewine’s ‘Guitar Player Repair Guide:

Measure the fret height by stacking up feeler gauges under a string or straight edge between the first and second frets. Add 5-10 thousands of an inch to the stack and place it under the strings next to the nut. File the slot at a slight angle down towards the headstock and when you feel the file bite on the metal feeler gauges, stop.

Check out the book for the full description.

He seems to know his stuff. Watched some YouTube videos and now ordered his book.

BillDL · June 2022

The easiest way to assess whether your nut slots are deep enough or too deep is to fret a string at the 3rd fret and then look at how much it clears the 1st fret by. If it is touching the 1st fret the slot is too low. If you have to press the string down onto the 1st fret the slot is too high. You should be able to tap the string over the 1st fret, hardly see it moving at all, but hear a quiet "ting" as it touches the 1st fret. You should just be able to see the gap between the bottom of the string and the crown of the 1st fret. Usually you need marginally more clearance for the bass strings than you need for the treble ones.

Find a guitar that you know is set up correctly i.e. doesn't take much pressure to hold down an open E or barre F, and doesn't raise the pitch of certain strings when fretting the chord. Do this technique on that guitar and you will get an idea of the small amount of clearance you are looking for over the 1st fret. As mentioned earlier, it doesn't take much filing or cutting in the slot to get the right height or to go too far. The same is true of filing down the underside of the nut, and removing it to do so isn't something I would necessarily recommend.

It's quite easy to chip out bits of the fretboard removing a nut, and if it has been glued in with more than two tiny dabs of glue you can end up pulling bits of wood from the nut rebate that remain stuck to the underside of the nut. You then have an uneven base for the nut and deepening it to make it level and square again can easily go wrong, or at the very least negate having removed the nut to file off a sliver from the base.

Mellish · June 2022

The chap who I rate is Bryan Kimsey. Have a look at his website.

Saying that, this forum isn't without its fair share of good luthiers/techs

ICBM · June 2022

BillDL said:

The easiest way to assess whether your nut slots are deep enough or too deep is to fret a string at the 3rd fret and then look at how much it clears the 1st fret by. If it is touching the 1st fret the slot is too low. If you have to press the string down onto the 1st fret the slot is too high. You should be able to tap the string over the 1st fret, hardly see it moving at all, but hear a quiet "ting" as it touches the 1st fret. You should just be able to see the gap between the bottom of the string and the crown of the 1st fret. Usually you need marginally more clearance for the bass strings than you need for the treble ones.

This - the easiest and also the best way, because it takes the action height and relief out of the equation, which can otherwise affect what you’re seeing.

You don’t ‘need’ feeler gauges, but they can be helpful if you’re unsure what you’re looking for or how tiny the gap you want really is.

The gap should be around a quarter of the string diameter, or even less - as low as a tenth of it, ie between .001” on the plain E string up to about .010” on the low E at the outer ends of the range. (If .001” sounds too small or difficult to achieve without risking going too far, up to .010” can work OK for the thin strings too.)

From the description of the strings being hard to fret, I’m guessing it’s *miles* higher than this. If it is, cutting the nut correctly will make an enormous difference, almost hard to believe how much until you’ve played it before and after.

TheMadMick · June 2022

^^ I bought a Takamine many years ago and it had a high nut although I didn't know that at the time - it was simply hard to fret at the top of the neck. Sent it back to get fixed and, as ICBM says, you wouldn't have recognised it as the same guitar. A pleasure to play (whatever you think of Tak"s)

Hard to get right but a real pleasure when you do.

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