Query failed: connection to localhost:9312 failed (errno=111, msg=Connection refused). NGD (Yes. Again.) - Acoustics Discussions on The Fretboard
UNPLANNED DOWNTIME: 12th Oct 23:45

NGD (Yes. Again.)

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TanninTannin Frets: 4394
There is a story to this one. Some time ago, I commissioned our local luthier to build a baritone guitar for me - something broadly similar to my Tacoma Thunderhawk but in all-local timbers. The starting point was the Thunderhawk dimensions: big jumbo body, very long 730mm scale and a 48mm nut. The Thunderhawk is Sitka Spruce over Rock Maple with a mahogany neck and ebony fretboard. After some thought, for the new one we settled on King Billy Pine for the top, Myrtle Beech (or possibly tiger myrtle if available) for the back and sides, Drooping Sheoak for the fretboard, and a Blackwood neck. Well I say "commissioned" but that is code for "put myself on his waiting list". It is not started yet and it will be at least another year, probably two, before it is finished.

For those unfamiliar with the timbers, King Billy Pine (Athrotaxis selaginoides) is a scarce Tasmanian conifer found only at mid-to-high altitudes in high rainfall districts. It is one of the famous Tasmanian rainforest conifer trio: Huon Pine, King Billy Pine, and Celery Top. (My Cole Clark Angel has a Huon Pine top.) King Billy is a fairly light, very slow-growing timber, stiff and strong along the grain, weaker across the grain. Figuring varies, but like most softwoods is not so obvious. Despite its rarity, King Billy is a well-known tonewood, said to be similar to Western Red Cedar but a little stiffer. See https://www.tasmanianspecialtimbers....ng-billy-pine/ King Billy Pine is not logged anymore, it is illegal to cut down a living tree, and most supplies of it come from dwindling caches or are recycled from wasteful past uses such as construction timber.



^ Under construction: top and sides complete. Note the falcate bracing.

Myrtle Beech (Nothofagus cunninghamii) is also known as southern myrtle, Tasmanian myrtle, or tiger myrtle. As so often with botanical common names, this species isn't a myrtle at all, it's a Nothofagus - one of the southern beeches, a family of Gondwanian trees which grow all around the southern part of the globe, usually in colder, more mountainous districts. They are related to the birch, beech, casuarina, and walnut families. Fifty million years ago, Nothofagus covered vast areas of what is now South America, Antarctica, New Zealand, and Australia. That was before the continents drifted north and slowly warmed and dried (or froze solid in the case of Antarctica), and newfangled tree families like the wattles (acacias) and the gums (eucalypts) and the she-oaks (casurinas) took over. Myrtle Beech is also known (incorrectly) as "Tasmanian myrtle" - yes, it does grow in Tasmania, but equally in the Victorian highlands. You get the same stupidity with Blackwood, by the way - Taylor and various others call Blackwood "Tasmanian Blackwood" to make it sound more exotic: in fact it is just as likely to come from Victoria, it grows naturally in every state of Australia except WA, and as any botany text will tell you, its name is simply "Blackwood".

Anyway, Myrtle Beech is a hard, quite heavy wood, surprisingly easy to work with and well known as a guitar timber, though uncommon because it is fairly rare and expensive, very expensive in the case of "tiger myrtle" (which is simply the same species infected by a fungus which gives it a spectacular streaky appearance much prized by wood fanciers). Regardless of the cost, instrument grade tiger myrtle can be very hard to find.

Although I eventually decided to go for the second baritone, I also thought hard about an orthodox concert size guitar. I suppose I really wanted both but sometimes you have to be realistic - whether we are considering Paul's workload or my budget, either way ordering both wasn't a practical possibility.

Anyway, that was all six months ago. Time passed.



^ The finished guitar.

Last week I was idly browsing "for sale" listings - not actually searching for anything, not even thinking about buying a guitar, just passing time - when I saw one of Paul's guitars advertised second-hand. Twelve months old, barely played, concert size, Engleman Spruce and tiger myrtle. Strewth! As always with used single-luthier guitars, the price was a lot less than you'd pay to have it built. (If you want good resale value, buy something like a Martin, Maton, Furch, or Taylor. If you want a bargain, look for something used and uncommon.) Now I'd have specified King Billy Pine from Tasmania rather than Engelman Spruce from Canada for the top, but tonally they are similar. And I'd have asked for a 46mm nut rather than the 44mm one this one has, but I can get by on 44mm. Ideally I'd have chosen a local fretboard timber (Mulga or sheoak) but Indian Rosewood is fine. Other than those three things, the advertised guitar is pretty much exactly what I'd have asked for if I was having one made for me.

Anyway, I bought it. The freight services are all over the place because of the New South Wales Covid outbreak, so it might be a week or so before it gets here. 



^ Tiger myrtle back.
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Comments

  • Winny_PoohWinny_Pooh Frets: 7202
    Wow, that is beautiful!
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  • LastMantraLastMantra Frets: 3819
    That's not usually the kind of thing that I'd go for....but damn I wish I had the skills to create something as beautiful as that!
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  • TanninTannin Frets: 4394
    Cheers lads. LastMantra, Paul loves doing intricate jobs. He makes only a few guitars a year and does a wide variety of other stuff - wood carving, inlays of many kinds, jewellery boxes, and so on. Beautiful work. I think he gets bored doing the same thing every day. Some of work can be seen on his website https://www.paulmineur.com.au/gallery and Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/Paul-Mineur-Guitar-Repairer-674718532632057/
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  • VimFuegoVimFuego Frets: 14862
    stunning guitar, and awesome botany lesson as well.

    I'm not locked in here with you, you are locked in here with me.

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  • TanninTannin Frets: 4394
    Thanks Vim.

    It arrived today and I'm very pleased with it. As promised it is virtually unused and apparently still wearing the original strings - which were just as awful after 9 months as you'd expect. Otherwise, in excellent condition. I played it for just long enough to judge what sort of new strings might suit it, eventually deciding that something very plain vanilla would be good, so on went a set of Martin phosphor bronze "Eric Clapton Signature" 12-54s. (What the difference is between them and the normal Martin authentic 12-54s is, I can't say. I suspect it is just a different packet. No matter, they seem just as nice as any other Martin  string.)

    With the new strings, it is a mellow and very responsive fingerpicker's guitar. It is an excellent, well-balanced sound, with the low end particularly full and rich. And it is a joy to play - action a little higher than I usually like but for reasons I can't quite put my finger on it feels soft and plays easy. I'm thinking I'll leave it just as it is. 

    The neck is fatter than I'm used to but felt natural straight away, and after an hour or so of playing I might even go as far as to wonder if the little bit of extra thickness isn't a bit easier on my old and fragile wrist. 

    Summary: no question it's a keeper. I've never bought a guitar without playing it before, this was a big punt but it has worked out well.

    Pictures (actual pictures with my own cameras, not stuff I've flogged from Facebook) tomorrow, weather permitting.

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  • KalimnaKalimna Frets: 1486
    Stunning guitars, stunning timbers.
    Thank you for the explanation of Australasian timber taxonomy :) I suspect that one of the reasons Tasmanian Blackwood is called such is to distinguish it from the other Blackwood used as instrument wood, Dalbergia melanoxylon, which is *quite* different.

    My latest Brook guitar features a Huon Pine top against a cocobolo B&S, and I have a few sets for home builds of other Aussie timbers (including a spectacular rippled Minnerichi fingerboard).

    Enjoy,
    Adam

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  • TanninTannin Frets: 4394
    I dropped back into this thread to update it with some relevant news, only to discover that my previous reply (months ago) hadn't gone through but was instead saved as a draft. On the better late than never theory, first my reply to @Kalimna ;

    African Blackwood is indeed very different, Adam. Calling Acacia melanoxylon "Tasmanian Blackwood is like calling  Quercus robur "Danish Oak".  At a pinch, "Australian Blackwood" makes sense where confusion with the African one is likely, but "Tasmanian Blackwood", no. (And I'm Tasmanian.)

    Oh wait .... "Norwegian Spruce" vs "Italian Spruce" vs ...... etc. etc. 
    And as for Red Spruce .... Right. Um ....

    Leaving that particular can of worms aside, Huon Pine and Cocobolo .... Now there is a combination! 

    "Minnerichi" could be any of several eucalypts and acacias but I'm guessing (and rather hoping) it will be Red Mulga (Acacia cyperophylla). If so, it's a stunningly beautiful thing.  




    Here is a detail from one growing in an inland river bed near the corner country (the area where Queensland, New South Wales, and South Australia meet). (Click to enlarge.)

    That's deep outback and hungry country - the creek would flow for a day or two once or twice a year on average. The Red Mulgas are the two in the middle distance centre, and probably the near-dead one at right; on the left you can see a small Coolibah (Eucalyptus coolabah) - yes, the one in the song, though the one the Jolly Swagman sat under would have been much bigger. 



    And just because I can't resist, one more close up of that amazing bark:


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  • TanninTannin Frets: 4394
    Now for my little bit of news.

    I dropped in to Paul's workshop today to have a couple of small jobs done on two of my Matons, and because I thought he'd be interested to meet it again with a decent set of strings on this time, also the guitar which is the subject of this thread.

    It turns out that he has just finished the next one and I was able to admire it and try it out. We had fun playing the two side by side. 



    Both are concert size with Englemann Spruce tops and Falcate bracing, both have Myrtle Beech back and sides (mine is "tiger myrtle" with the rare fungal patterning the new one doesn't have,  but they are the same species). The new one has a soundport and a more sensible and better-looking bridge shape than mine (the original buyer specified the silly little bridge on mine). Both have ebony binding which is (I'm told) a bit of a bugger to bend. Oh, and the new one is finished in gloss where mine is satin.



    The new one has a nifty Magpie Goose with chicks decoration on the headstock (how many hours of work in that?)

    The new one has a Myrtle Beech neck where my neck is Blackwood. Paul isn't keen on the Myrtle Beech neck, he thinks the extra weight makes it unbalanced. I think it looks lovely and don't care about the weight either way. Mind you, my Blackwood neck looks pretty nice too, so I'm happy. 



    Paul isn't keen on the Myrtle Beech neck, he thinks the extra weight makes it unbalanced. I think it looks lovely and don't care about the weight either way. Mind you, my Blackwood neck looks pretty nice too, so I'm happy. Here is mine again (well, some of it). It is quite a variation in the timber colour considering they are the same species. 





    What about the sound? Well the two guitars are very similar, but subtly different. Both are sweet and well-balanced but mine  is a little more of a blues sound, the new one a little sweeter. Or to put the same thing another way, you could say that the new one has a little dash of Taylor sound added to it, mine a little dash of Martin. 

    It was great to have the opportunity of seeing another one of these special guitars, and I'm sure that the new owner will think it has been well worth the wait. 

    (My own build, the baritone, is just a little closer now. Couple of years maybe. Happy to wait.)
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  • ElectricXIIElectricXII Frets: 733
    Wow, those are real works of art. I'd be scared to play them in the house. let alone out!
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  • MellishMellish Frets: 945
    Nice, mate. You seem to know where to get the good stuff! ;) 
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  • SoupmanSoupman Frets: 172
    Wow. Stunners. You can tell when someone loves wood. That headstock is superb. Enjoy!
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  • SupportactSupportact Frets: 665
    Thanks for posting, lovely guitars and some interesting details about the woods. 
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  • harryharry Frets: 6
    Love the woods and the narrative. She’s gonna be a beauty.
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