Archtops, pure or mostly acoustic

VimFuego · August 2014

been listening to a number of different players who've been using archtop acoustics and it's got me jonesing for one, so was wondering who makes pure or mostly pure acoustic archtops. No idea of budget, so list to anything really.

Jeremiah · August 2014

Godin 5th avenue

(They also make a version with p90s)

Jalapeno · August 2014

That'd work. Gretsch do something similar if it is the Mojo you are after .... The Loar as well

http://www.peachguitars.com/guitars/electric-guitars/gretsch-g9550-new-yorker-archtop.htm

But you'd want a carved top 17" or 18" for a nice tone, sustain and volume - not going to be cheap. Going to cost 'farsands I'd guess !

VimFuego · August 2014

yeah, did kinda think it'd be expensive, seems to be not much middle ground with archtops. Have to try and find a localish dealer of the godin ones, see what they're like in the flesh.

Jalapeno · August 2014

IMNSHO You go from steam pressed tops straight to the likes of hand carved Benedetto, Manzer, Comins, Campellone, Gibson L7, etc - there is no middle ground really. That's taken by mid-range round hole Martins & Taylors and such like

Megii · August 2014

Admit I have no direct playing experience, but I have heard that the Godins are not massively loud acoustically - i.e. have the amplified archtop sound down, but not so good as an acoustic instrument. If the acoustic element is your main consideration, I think you should consider if it would be possible to stretch the budget up towards a bigger-bodied, and ideally carved top archtop - 17" or 18" as Jalapeno suggests.

Fretwired · August 2014

Godin's are great guitars. I have three ... I recommend trying to buy second hand as they don't hold their value that well.

WezV · August 2014

I quite like the Godins and I like a lot of the older guitars they are emulating, but its a very different experience to a proper carved archtop. Do you know what the players you were listening to were playing?

budget is the key decider here. Looking on ebay always brings up The Loar, but i don't think they are for sale over here

Would love to be able to get a carved archtop for under £500 but its not a guitar i would want to risk sending half way round the world (again)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/The-Loar-LH-300-Archtop-Acoustic-Guitar-NEW-/140937473152?pt=Guitar&hash=item20d0872c80

....

that gretsch shown above does look tempting

GuyBoden · August 2014

A true handcrafted acoustic Archtop guitar is very expensive £3000 - £20000+

Look Here:
http://www.archtop.com/ac_inst.html

VimFuego · August 2014

yeah, saw a couple on some of the makers jal mentioned that were in the $30k region. Probably a tad above what I was thinking of paying...

streethawk · August 2014

Yunzhi (ex Eastman) or Eastman.

Handmade in china, all solid woods, very highly thought of.

Loars look very good value - Thomman sell all solid versions for around 500 quid.

You don't have to spend thousands these days. Especially f you're only researching that sound.

WezV · August 2014

GuyBoden said:

A true handcrafted acoustic Archtop guitar is very expensive £3000 - £20000+

Look Here:
http://www.archtop.com/ac_inst.html

Indeed. I will build one myself one day but its something I am working towards rather than rushing into. I am currently making a thinline which is an important step in that process

Evilmags · August 2014

http://www.peerlessguitars.eu/#/contessa/4549480812

Looks very nice indeed. Van Hayden picked up a Spruce topped Heritage for a decent price IRRC.

http://www.thomann.de/gb/peerless_guitars_manhattan.htm

At 900 quid is a decent buy. solid wood arch-tops are not generally cheap.

VimFuego · August 2014

yeah, peerless are one of the brands I want to try out.

Evilmags · August 2014

The fact that Martin Taylor uses one live is fairly reassuring. If you want to get acoustic tone you really do need a spruce top and proper bracing. Maple topped ones sound plinky. I´ve played an Eastman that I really liked, but I´ve also herd they are not that solidly put together. A lot of the players combine a mic with the pickup when recording to get a really natural sound. A lot of nice stuff on flea bay at the moment. Not often you see one of these up for sale.

p90fool · August 2014

If you want a real acoustic archtop you need a proper carved top - The Loar LH300 is probably the cheapest, I have one and they're the real thing.

They've cut corners in places which don't really matter but the fundamental construction method is authentic, and they're loud.

Godins are probably better made but just sound like unplugged electric guitars, which is what they are to be fair.

VimFuego · August 2014

oddly enough, I was just reading about those loar archtops on another forum. They look interesting, though finding a real life (as opposed to internet box shifter) stockist may be interesting.

Phil_aka_Pip · August 2014

I confess to ignorance about archtops. Watched a short youtube vid about the LH300, got the impression it was "loud" 'cos the player was thumping it hard with a plectrum. If he fingerpicked it, I assume it would not be as loud, but would it be any louder than a bog stock round hole acoustic?

p90fool · August 2014

Phil_aka_Pip said:

I confess to ignorance about archtops. Watched a short youtube vid about the LH300, got the impression it was "loud" 'cos the player was thumping it hard with a plectrum. If he fingerpicked it, I assume it would not be as loud, but would it be any louder than a bog stock round hole acoustic?

About the same as your average dreadnought, but with a much more pronounced midrange.

If you watch the meters when you're recording they're about the same as any other acoustic, but if you're jamming with other acoustic instruments they poke out of the mix very well, which is the reason I bought mine.

I guess people like to demonstrate how loud they can get when you really beat on them and it's true, they just get louder and louder, unlike most flattops, which tend to get mushy and a little chaotic.

It's all down to expectations, the LH300 is quite closely based on an early L5, and it does a reasonable job imitating that pre-war archtop sound, given the limitations of brand new wood compared to something 80 or 90 years old.

What neither The Loar NOR pre-war Gibson L5s excel at though is that pretty, delicate, Martin-esque tone, and even most £5k handmade acoustic archtops are brash compared to a flattop.

When you spend many thousands you get a refined build quality and a balanced tone, but "pretty-sounding" is just not what they're about, regardless of price.

Phil_aka_Pip · August 2014

@p90fool thanks a lot for that. I've also just noticed the LH-280 which looks like a very attractive cheaper alternative to the ES-175 I can't afford ...

GuyBoden · August 2014

Phil_aka_Pip said:

@p90fool thanks a lot for that. I've also just noticed the LH-280 which looks like a very attractive cheaper alternative to the ES-175 I can't afford ...

The 175's have a laminate top, so there's very little acoustic sound, they're for plugging into an amp. I've had a lot of Archtop guitars over the years, before buying them it's good to play them and listen.

Archtop Cutaway LH-350-VS

LH-350-VS

LH-350

Phil_aka_Pip · August 2014

@GuyBoden I guess I've implied confusion of the specs there. I have in fact been gassing for a 175 for some time, then, realising I'd never raise the money, considered the Vintage lookalike plus a few others (but not the Loar as I was not aware of it), then when this thread started, wondered about acoustic archtops, found the Loar site ...etc you know the rest.

GuyBoden · August 2014

Phil_aka_Pip said:

@GuyBoden I guess I've implied confusion of the specs there. I have in fact been gassing for a 175 for some time, then, realising I'd never raise the money, considered the Vintage lookalike plus a few others (but not the Loar as I was not aware of it), then when this thread started, wondered about acoustic archtops, found the Loar site ...etc you know the rest.

1958 Gibson catalog prices.

downbytheriver · August 2014

I've got a couple of (not cheap) Gretsch archtops - one has a Fishman Archtop Pickup in the bridge and has a stunning acoustic (plugged in) sound, the other is much more like a Jazz guitar with a solid spruce top, laminated maple back and sides - nice jazzy sound through an electric amp. However, neither is much cop acoustically - they both seem to be designed for plugged in. I love them but for acoustic playing I stick to flat tops.

Phil_aka_Pip · August 2014

GuyBoden said:

Phil_aka_Pip said:

@GuyBoden I guess I've implied confusion of the specs there. I have in fact been gassing for a 175 for some time, then, realising I'd never raise the money, considered the Vintage lookalike plus a few others (but not the Loar as I was not aware of it), then when this thread started, wondered about acoustic archtops, found the Loar site ...etc you know the rest.

1958 Gibson catalog prices.

Oh for time machine

FreddieVanHalen · August 2014

I had been thinking of trading my PRS hollowbody for a nice archtop, it seems like a bit of a minefield to find the "right" one.

Was thinking the Gibson Super 400 CES was a beautiful guitar and then I saw the price (coupled as ever with a whole bunch of people saying the "new" ones are over priced rubbish).

Still, by the time I can afford one my jazz skills may have improved to the point where I could do something like that justice....

Jalapeno · August 2014

Need to differentiate between solid wood and carved. A lot of the cheaper ones are steam pressed solid wood, rather than hand carved and properly braced to project sound.

Not sure why 'Mags put the picture of Robert Bennedetto's builder's pine archtop up ... it's a one-off he made to prove a point about "tonewood" being bunkum. It was never sold AFAIK.

FreddieVanHalen · August 2014

The Bennedetto seems to be up for sale on eBay at the moment - for about nine grand.

And I thought the gibsons were pricey lol

Jalapeno · August 2014

FreddieVanHalen said:

The Bennedetto seems to be up for sale on eBay at the moment - for about nine grand.

It is totally unique ... I stand corrected, I never knew he sold it or gave it away.

FreddieVanHalen · August 2014

@Jalapeno I don't really know much about Benedetto, just been having a look at the site this afternoon - certainly didn't know the history of the "scrap wood" guitar.

A bit more searching seems to reveal the same seller has tried to shift it a few times over the last couple of years, who knows...

Looking at the prices for other instruments from Benedetto, it could almost be considered cheap!

I would love a guitar of this class, but think I've got some saving, practicing and research to do before going down this road!!

Jalapeno · August 2014

A basic Benedetto starts at about $4500, sometimes less - keep an eye on his Marketplace too (though more often they are $20k+ one off beauties). The "cheaper" ones are possibly "School of", rather than built by his Bobness.

There was a one-off Tal Farlow 175-a-like for $3k a few years ago I kicked myself for not getting.

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