Improving Woody acoustic pickup sounds

thecolourbox · May 2021

Hi all

I have an acoustic guitar which sounds adequate although a couple of things I'd like to get sorted. It's a Taylor Big Baby, it has no electrics built in so to amplify it I require to use a pickup. I bought a Seymour Duncan Woody ages ago which I normally use, lord knows why I bought the Single Coil version.

When I use it, there seems to be noise, like high pitched hissing. I think that's best way to describe it. I think somebody mentioned before it could be the single coil, but also that the output volume of these is really low so you have to turn it up way high and then you get noise.

Anyway - I wondered if there were any options to improve this, or whether I just need to bin it and but something better? It's a budget guitar and it's not an amazing instrument, so I'm trying to just get the best I can with a low budget to make it useable and not have to worry too much about it.

Would some kind of preamp or acoustic sim pedal work to provide a better cleaner level?

Do I just need a different pickup?

I'm not very knowledgeable about acoustic guitars but seem to have some natural ability for folky picking and singing so tend to get asked to play that.

Thanks all

Matt

Winny_Pooh · May 2021

If on a budget, have you tried using an electric guitar amp or regular nickel wound strings?

Another pickup is very much recommended rather than throwing money at adding things like a preamp.
If so what is your budget? If you buy a good sound hole pickup you can keep using it if/when you change guitars later.

steamabacus · May 2021

You don't say but I assume you're talking about playing at an open mic / small festival type situation?

My usual approach to this would be to use the magnetic pickup for body and warmth (roll off some highs to remove that unwanted hiss) and then augment that with a microphone on the strings (roll off some bottom end 'boom' and resonance on the mic signal). So the pickup provides the 'body' and the microphone the 'air'.

Obviously, this assumes a soundperson with a modicum of ability.

It's also worth pointing out that a passive magnetic pickup on a long cable into a mixing desk is about the worst possible situation for correct impedence and decent signal/noise. Try and keep the magnetic pickup cable as short as possible and run into some form of buffer to drive the signal to the desk. It doesn't need to be as fancy as an acoustic pre-amp pedal - a Boss tuner would work.

octatonic · May 2021

thecolourbox said:

Hi all

I have an acoustic guitar which sounds adequate although a couple of things I'd like to get sorted. It's a Taylor Big Baby, it has no electrics built in so to amplify it I require to use a pickup. I bought a Seymour Duncan Woody ages ago which I normally use, lord knows why I bought the Single Coil version.

When I use it, there seems to be noise, like high pitched hissing. I think that's best way to describe it. I think somebody mentioned before it could be the single coil, but also that the output volume of these is really low so you have to turn it up way high and then you get noise.

Anyway - I wondered if there were any options to improve this, or whether I just need to bin it and but something better? It's a budget guitar and it's not an amazing instrument, so I'm trying to just get the best I can with a low budget to make it useable and not have to worry too much about it.

Would some kind of preamp or acoustic sim pedal work to provide a better cleaner level?

Do I just need a different pickup?

I'm not very knowledgeable about acoustic guitars but seem to have some natural ability for folky picking and singing so tend to get asked to play that.

Thanks all
Matt

Check out the LR Baggs Venue.
I would replace the pickup first though with an under saddle piezo.

ICBM · May 2021

thecolourbox said:

Would some kind of preamp or acoustic sim pedal work to provide a better cleaner level?

Do I just need a different pickup?

Unfortunately the Woody is just not very good. You might be able to improve it with an EQ pedal, but you're still going to be fighting an uphill battle against its very low output and noisiness.

The hiss might be coming from the amp having to be turned up too high to get a decent signal level, of from the pickup picking up something like switch-mode power supply (eg computer or phone charger) noise, in which case being able to boost the mids but cut the high treble could be useful.

I find a 'seagull' or 'twin peaks' shape on a graphic EQ works well with an acoustic guitar and a magnetic pickup usually. (Deep bass and high treble down, low mids and high mids up, mid mids down a bit.)

octatonic said:

I would replace the pickup first though with an under saddle piezo.

*Only* if you plan to use a really good outboard preamp as well, which is going to put the cost up a lot. A piezo on its own sounds far worse even than a bad magnetic. (Albeit louder.)

Funkfingers · May 2021

thecolourbox said:

I bought a Seymour Duncan Woody ages ago which I normally use, lord knows why I bought the Single Coil version.

… because it doesn't sound as dull as the stacked coils, hum-cancelling version.

I have had the dubious pleasure of dismantling an SD Woody. The resin sealant took a fair bit of dislodging. Inside, the bobbin resembles half of a Hot Stack For Stratocaster. It is thoroughly screened in copper foil.

The top of the wooden cover is approximately 3mm thick. This and the soundhole fastening slots result in the pickup coil sitting rather a long way from the vibrating strings. Consequently, the signal is not strong.

thecolourbox said:

Would some kind of preamp or acoustic sim pedal work to provide a better, cleaner level?

Yes and no, in that order.

A dedicated pre-amp processor for acoustic guitar should help by adding compression and multi-band equalisation.

An acoustic simulator pedal is intended for use with a solid body electric guitar.

thecolourbox said:

Do I just need a different pickup?

Possibly.

Based on the experience of a local shop proprietor and guitar tech, I would try this quick experiment. Slacken off the strings on the Baby Taylor and see how far inside it you can get your forearm.

Seriously!

If you cannot make firm fingertip contact with the pointy ends of the string pegs and the strap button, you are going to struggle with any internal installation, be it UST, K&K Mini or my beloved LR Baggs Lyric system.

That leaves soundhole pickups. The serious ones will cost at least half of the purchase price of the guitar itself.

Similarly, the LR Baggs Venue pedal will be several hundred Pounds.

thecolourbox · May 2021

Cheers all, some food for thought here then. I'm a low rent musician, certainly quality of output is low rent in any case! So preamps that cost hundreds aren't going to be worth it, I can cope with dull sounding guitar sounds but the noise things seem to really catch me like nails on a blackboard.

Are there any pickups around the cost of the Woody that would be adequate, doesn't need to be great as neither my playing nor my vocals are great either.

The kind of setup I get to play at are general amateur events similar to open mics I guess, that's the kind of thing I'm useful at, basically background music. I'm hopefully playing at a couple of local arts fest type things this summer, Covid allowing. Itll just be me, my Acoustic, a mix, into either my own little pa speaker (working on that) or a communal pa speaker.

I do play with quite a light touch and quite quietly, I don't bash out strumming chords, so I suppose that doesn't help the volume thing.

In fact here I am on a live stream version of the one arts fest in hopefully playing again this year, obviously had to go online last year

thecolourbox · May 2021

I guess the other option is trying to trade in the Big Baby to swap for something with piezos in

Funkfingers · May 2021

thecolourbox said:

I'm a low rent musician … preamps that cost hundreds aren't going to be worth it.

I beg to differ.

Professional quality instruments and sound reinforcement are desirable to anyone seeking to present their act to a good standard.

IMO, the fact that you have posted this question suggests that you care about how you sound in live public performance situations.

I suggest searching YouTube for LR Baggs M1 v. M80 comparison reviews.

FWIIW, I have a Fishman Neo-D soundhole pickup. (This must be better than the SD Woody.) Of the Fishman products, avoid any model with a gooseneck microphone.

thecolourbox said:

I'm a low rent musician, certainly quality of output is low rent in any case!

You really need to stop doing this, Matt. Don't tell audiences that you're crap before they have even heard you perform. At the very least, allow audiences to decide for themselves.

Confidence and sincerity. Once you can fake those, you've got it made.

thecolourbox · May 2021

Winny_Pooh said:

have you tried using an electric guitar amp

steamabacus said:

and run into some form of buffer

I remembered last night that I do have a Boss NS2 sitting doing nothing, awaiting being bothered to try to sell it. Perhaps I should try that into my electric amp on clean and see how that goes...to be honest I prefer the sound of electric to acoustic guitar anyway so if it has some of that to it, then all good.

Funkfingers said:

thecolourbox said:

I'm a low rent musician … preamps that cost hundreds aren't going to be worth it.

I beg to differ.
...
Confidence and sincerity. Once you can fake those, you've got it made.

My confidence level is proportionate to my skill level

I am satisfied I can generally sound adequate in the right scenario, so I only need stuff to sound adequate rather than amazing as there's not likely to be much gained or me trying to sound amazing rather than adequate. Especially with the money involved, it's lipstick on a pig while I still use the Big Baby. In my experience, unless you're using mics and nice acoustics, they will always sound a bit crap in the kinds of setups I play at. The main thing I care about is how it sounds for me rather than the audience, and I'm seemingly over-sensitive to pickup noise in general so getting something that eradicates that is mainly what I'm after.

I wouldn't get much on trade in for the Big Baby I reckon, but I'll have a lot to see what is out there with piezos instead if the NS2 into electric guitar amp doesn't tick the box (and also mull over a PM offer I've received for a different pickup).

Cheers all

Edit, Oh I do also have a few mics that i could perhaps consider setting up on a stand I guess - I've an SM58 alike, SM57 alike, a condenser and a TC Helion MP75. The condenser I guess is not worth the hassle for this kind of set up but the others may be able to build up an array of sorts I suppose

Funkfingers · May 2021

thecolourbox said:

Big Baby

Some of my previous comments were based on the notion that you had the Baby Taylor. D'oh!

The guitar in the 3 Shires Festival video sounds fine. (I would be interested to hear it un-capo'd. The synthetic nut material is Graphtech's economy version of TUSQ.)

If your BBT has the screwed-in strap pin, it should be easy to perform a DIY installation of either a soundhole pickup or devices such as the K&K Pure Mini, LR Baggs i-Beam or Lyric.

A pre-owned LR Baggs M1 ought to be available in the £100-150 region. Fishman has the Black Stack. DiMarzio has the Black Angel series. Some of these may even be designed to work through electric guitar amplification.

thecolourbox said:

something with piezos

The DiMarzio DP235 Black Angel Piezo might have been made for you. It attaches to the bridge plate, inside the body. No tiresome drilling of holes or alterations to the bridge saddle!

thecolourbox · May 2021

Thanks

Funkfingers said:

The guitar in the 3 Shires Festival video sounds fine. (I would be interested to hear it un-capo'd. The synthetic nut material is Graphtech's economy version of TUSQ.)

If I remember correctly I had to use two EQ plugins in series to get rid of the noise, and even then had to keep the level very low in the overall mix hence why it's very quiet compared to my voice. I don't usually play it without a capo as the B string annoys me - in tune open out of tune fretted, or vice versa. If I need to play using "open shapes" I either have to arrange it so I don't use the open B string in my shapes, or tune it down a note and capo it at first fret. Perhaps that provides info on the nut, I don't know. I once tried to get Hobgoblin to take it in and sort out that issue and lower the action a bit but they decided to patronise me for my lack of knowledge and told me it would take several weeks to get it back so I just left it.

Funkfingers said:

perform a DIY installation

I've just read the instructions for the ibeam...not a chance I'd manage that kind of thing. If I added up the cost of the pickup, and installation by somebody, I might as well just flog this thing and get something else which already has piezos built in, and might not have the silly B string issue or high action. I'd prefer a Telecoustic but they are so quiet due to the small body and the one I had the preamp failed a few times on me.

Not to worry. Hopefully the Boss buffer plus electric guitar amp combo succeeds enough, nobody is going to care anyway I suspect

Skylar12 · May 2021

Got a Big Baby too. I use a fishman neo d single coil pickup and behringer adi21. Sounds ok. Don’t think I’ve experienced the hiss much. Have also got a mosky xp booster as a clean boost to boost levels if needed.

Have been eyeing the nux optima air, stageman floor or hotone omni ac, check them out on YouTube.

Supportact · May 2021

I used to use a Woody (think it was the humbucker type though). I upgraded from the woody in the end - there are loads of options. I ended up with a Scherter AG3, which is expensive but excellent. I'd say for acoustic pickups generally you do get what you pay for, so if you upgrade it's just looking at what features you want within your set budget.

If you're keeping the woody, as others have said, plugging one of those direct into the mixer or powered speaker or whatever isn't ideal. Again, there are loads of options but on a budget as Skylar12 suggested the Behringer adi21 isn't a bad option. Or keeping things really simple I'd suggest you could go with a simple passive DI box (which will give you a better signal to go into the mixer). With that option, if you do upgrade or go in another direction, you won't have wasted your money because a DI box is always handy to have around for any gigs or home recording you might do in future.

Also don't be so down on yourself. If you're performing for people (even very small gigs/open mics etc) then they're giving you their time and attention, and you're giving them something in return. Nothing wrong with being self deprecating and humble as a performer if that's you, but always value what you do.

ICBM · May 2021

Supportact said:

Or keeping things really simple I'd suggest you could go with a simple passive DI box (which will give you a better signal to go into the mixer). With that option, if you do upgrade or go in another direction, you won't have wasted your money because a DI box is always handy to have around for any gigs or home recording you might do in future.

I would definitely not use a passive DI box with a passive pickup - it means the pickup is still being loaded by the whole length of cable to the desk, even if it’s not as bad when converted to low impedance. A simple active DI will be a lot better even without EQ.

Passive DIs do work very well with active pickups though - they often sound more natural than adding another active stage into the chain.

Supportact · May 2021

ICBM is right - should be active not passive. Thanks ICBM

Funkfingers · May 2021

thecolourbox said:

… without a capo … the B string annoys me - in tune open out of tune fretted or vice versa. If I need to play using "open shapes" I either have to arrange it so I don't use the open B string in my shapes, or tune it down a note and capo it at first fret. Perhaps, that provides info on the nut?

Affirmative. The nut on your guitar requires either attention or replacement. In tune open, sharp fretted suggests that the slot is not cut deeply enough.

thecolourbox said:
I once tried to get Hobgoblin to take it in and sort out that issue … but they … told me it would take several weeks to get it back

I interpret this to mean that the Hobgoblin repair department was so busy that jobs were queueing for their turn on the work bench.

Unless the counter staff lifted you by your lapels and said, "now, listen here, pussycat" in the style of a Tom & Jerry cartoon, you were not being patronised or slighted.

thecolourbox · May 2021

Thanks again chaps for the information and suggestions, I've got enough to get on with now. Cheers

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Improving Woody acoustic pickup sounds

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