Cutaways on Acoustics

lincolnblue · March 2021

If you search online or look in shops (when we can!) at acoustics the vast majorty I think now come with cutaways. I have a couple of acoustics with cutaways and for my last one wanted one specifically without.

I realise that people play a vast array of styles on acoustic and there will always be a need for some to have a cutaway to reach the higher frets, but are they really needed on so many guitars? It is harder now I think to find one without.

ICBM · March 2021

It's even worse if you want a cutaway guitar without built-in factory-fitted electronics.

Whitecat · March 2021

Yeah, it's annoying. I prefer acoustics without cutaways *except* for 12-fret models in which it's non-negotiable - not because I'm widdling away up top but if I'm using even a 6th or 7th fret capo then I need that space...

oldhorsemurphy · March 2021

I'm another one who doesn't like cutaways on an acoustic. That said, the first "decent" acoustic I bought was a gorgeous Takamine Koa Grand Auditorium that had a cutaway AND the big electronics control plate on the top bout- two things that I really don't like now.

It did sound good though

BingMan · March 2021

Some smaller guitars look ok-ish with cutaways... I wouldn't say no to a Bourgeois OMC soloist... but dreadnaughts with cutaways, forgetabout it

DavidR · March 2021

For myself, I rarely play an acoustic piece that requires going beyond the 12th fret. And I can reach the 12th fret. So I don't need a cutaway!! Simples.

I would hazard (and say speak for yourself by all means) that, for most acoustic players, the bit of the fretboard above the 13th fret is for holding the head, neck and fretboard to the rest of the guitar. It doesn't really need frets - but it would look a bit silly without them!!

Also, the notes above the 12th fret on an acoustic aren't that nice usually. IMHO.

thermionic · March 2021

Never quite worked out why standing up in front of an audience means you’re more likely to require access to higher frets?

ICBM · March 2021

A cutaway does actually matter to me - it's very difficult to play a full barre chord above the 10th fret without one, and a couple of my old band's songs had those in them. That said, neither of my current acoustics have one. (But that band is no longer in existence either.)

sev112 · March 2021

DavidR said:

For myself, I rarely play an acoustic piece that requires going beyond the 12th fret. And I can reach the 12th fret. So I don't need a cutaway!! Simples.

I would hazard (and say speak for yourself by all means) that, for most acoustic players, the bit of the fretboard above the 13th fret is for holding the head, neck and fretboard to the rest of the guitar. It doesn't really need frets - but it would look a bit silly without them!!

Also, the notes above the 12th fret on an acoustic aren't that nice usually. IMHO.

Don’t you play that nice root E major chord 12 frets up? Asus2 Is also nice up there, as does Dmaj.

octatonic · March 2021

ICBM said:

It's even worse if you want a cutaway guitar without built-in factory-fitted electronics.

Fylde do a few.

DiscoStu · March 2021

octatonic said:

ICBM said:

It's even worse if you want a cutaway guitar without built-in factory-fitted electronics.

Fylde do a few.

And Furch.

octatonic · March 2021

I think Atkin are a brand that don't do any cutaways.

ICBM · March 2021

octatonic said:

Fylde do a few.

Unfortunately I've never played a Fylde I liked

.

DiscoStu said:

And Furch.

Ah... now that's more like it. It appears they do every model without electrics. Pity they don't do maple bodies, but black walnut is very nice too.

I may have to try one some time.

DiscoStu · March 2021

ICBM said:

octatonic said:

Fylde do a few.

Unfortunately I've never played a Fylde I liked .

DiscoStu said:

And Furch.

Ah... now that's more like it. It appears they do every model without electrics. Pity they don't do maple bodies, but black walnut is very nice too.

I may have to try one some time.

I've got a Stonebridge/Furch cutaway dreadnought. It's a joy. I added an LR Baggs M1A to the soundhole, and the guitar comes predrilled for an output jack through the end strap pin, so zero alterations need made and it can go back to stock if I want to.

Tannin · March 2021

Does a cutaway have any value?

Sure it does. It looks nice. (Not on all guitars, but quite often.)

It also provides access to some notes high up on the neck which don't sound very good anyway. Well, not unless you like that equally-dead-on-all-frets tone archtops are made for. Some people do. If I wanted to play notes way up the neck, I'd get an electric in the first place. Electrics sound *good* when you play them up the neck. Acoustics, even the best of them, merely sound adequate.

I do like being able to get at highish frets (12, 13, 14) for the occasional chord, but cutaways really don't help very much with that. The design of the neck-body joint makes much more difference as it's the heel which mostly gets in your way. (If you are doodling around on the treble strings playing lead, sure, but for chords I need to get my *wrist* further up, not my fingers.) This is where bolt-on and straight-through necks can really shine. My Tacoma baritone has no heel at all, *and* it's a 15-fret neck. Magic! Well, it would be on a standard guitar - a baritone is the very last guitar there is any point in going up the neck on. The old Eston 12-string I cut my teeth on (a badge-engineered Eko, 1970ish, and about as heavy as a Les Paul) was another one with no heel.

OK, some people think they need access to the higher frets for playing lead. I think they'd often sound better if they played it down the neck a bit (or cross-badged over to the electric side) but every player has to make his or her own artistic decisions, so fair enough.

Tannin · March 2021

What about the bad side? Does a cutaway have any disadvantages? Can you hear the difference?

One word answer, yes.

Longer answer, no doubt about it. I've played identical guitars (bar cutaway) side-by-side and it makes a difference. Here is a video of a chap doing the same:

OK, you can only tell so much from a low-fi You-tube video, but you can hear the tonal difference between the cutaway and non-cutaway models clearly enough. As it happens, I played two of those exact same models side by side for myself this time last year, and paid careful, thorough attention because I was planning to buy one or the other (or one of two other guitars at a different shop). I expected to like the cutaway, but after playing the identical non-cutaway, I changed my mind. I went back and forwards between them for quite a while. Every time, the non-cutaway was just that little bit better. And $100 cheaper too!

And another example here:

This brings me to the big question. I have an 808 Messiah with a cutaway, and I can hear the difference when Jesse plays one of those side-by-side with a non-cutaway one. My 808 Messiah is less than a year old. It's a wonderful guitar that I'm very happy with but just the same I wish it was a non-cutaway one. Not just for the better tone, also because I like to drop my little finger down to anchor my other fingers and yes, sometimes my right hand goes that far up towards the neck. Depends on what sound I'm after. The cutaway is annoying. Is it worth spending the money to swap them over? It would be quite expensive.

Let's summarise:

Is there a difference? Yes.

Is it a big difference? No. But it's there and it's real.

Is the tone better? Yes.

Is the volume louder? Probably, but I don't know. Don't care to be honest.

Is it worth looking for a non-cutaway guitar? Yes.

Is it worth buying some other guitar if the guitar you really want happens to have a cutaway? No. It's not a big deal.

I posted a rant similar to that ^ one in another place a little while ago, and was roundly howled down. All these people - yes, the very same ones who claim to be able to detect the difference another brand of bridge pin makes, or a different make of machine head, the difference between Tusq and bone saddles, and don't even start me on how fussy they are about strings - all these people pretended that they couldn't hear the slightest difference between otherwise identical cutaway and non-cutaway guitars.

People are strange.

ICBM · March 2021

Of course it makes a difference. I'm not sure anyone here is claiming that it doesn't.

But equally, not being able to play something that you want to play because the side of the body is in the way also makes a difference... which in my opinion trumps the marginally better tone from not having one, if you want to play those things.

Slash'N'burn · March 2021

Paul Davids did a review of an acoustic recently, it had a partial cutaway, angled so that it wasn’t visible from the back, I guess to retain most of the internal space while giving a bit more access to the higher frets.

artiebear · March 2021

Of course a cutaway on a like for like guitar without a cutaway will sound different, assuming that there is no tweak to the design. Then again, that is where a clever builder, more so a high end maker of bespoke instruments, will have probably spent a lot of time working out how to compensate through bracing through to the dimensions of the guitar.

The two finest cutaway guitars I have are a Bourgeois Soloist which is easily the richest sounding OM I have owned or played ( it was Dana Bourgeois and Eric Schoenberg who came up with what we might see as the modern soft cutaway when they did the first Soloist ), the other was made by HJ Williams which is what might be called a modified dread in shape but is a finger style monster. Talking to Haydn, I know how much time and thought he puts into the variables from cutaway to non cutaway. It's that kind of experience that go into the price worth paying for a great guitar.

In terms of "why a cutaway ?" . It's all about harmonic range. If it's there it can be exploited, in the same way as the low end and high end of a piano. A good guitar with a good set up can sound very full on those highest notes when used well.

Jimbro66 · March 2021

octatonic said:

I think Atkin are a brand that don't do any cutaways.

That’s an interesting point. He did make cutaway acoustics in his earlier days, I played one at his workshop eight years ago and it played and sounded great but I didn’t much like the aesthetics of it. At that time Alister was building guitars to his own designs as well as vintage recreations. His current range has no cutaways and it is not a customer option either.

TheBigDipper · March 2021

I don't think I've ever chosen an acoustic because it did or didn't have a cutaway. I don't see the guitar when I'm playing it and I don't often try to go past the 15th fret much. I do agree with the comments about sound, the high frets on the high strings just don't sound as good on any of my acoustics. I have no problem doing a partial barre on the 12th fret of my 14 fret guitars. A full barre isn't something I remember ever wanting to do up tere.

My only guitar with a cutaway (rounded, as opposed to Florentine) is the Stonebridge 12 string I have (and love to play). I don't go that high up the neck to need it! :-)

DannyP · March 2021

In terms of shape affecting sound, didn't someone (Takamine?) try to calculate the best sounding shape but they didn't look cool so no one bought them?

ICBM · March 2021

DannyP said:

In terms of shape affecting sound, didn't someone (Takamine?) try to calculate the best sounding shape but they didn't look cool so no one bought them?

During their early development, Charles Kaman of Ovation claimed to have equalled the sound of the Martin D-45.

Lewy · March 2021

ICBM said:

DannyP said:

In terms of shape affecting sound, didn't someone (Takamine?) try to calculate the best sounding shape but they didn't look cool so no one bought them?

During their early development, Charles Kaman of Ovation claimed to have equalled the sound of the Martin D-45.

I wonder why he said a D-45 as opposed to a D-28...does Abalone affect tone?

guitarjack66 · March 2021

Does it make that much difference to bedroom and recreational players to really matter? I mean,I can understand these things if you are a professional musician or a recording artist but to most guitarists I'm sure it really doesn't matter that much,no?

Tannin · March 2021

If we only talked about Things That Really Matter, Guitarjack, this forum would be lucky to get one post a week.

Outside the forum, the Ridcully Rule is often appropriate. Only pay attention to urgent and important things. Anything anyone has time to write down can't be urgent, and if no-one is shouting it's obviously not important.

artiebear · March 2021

guitarjack66 said:

Does it make that much difference to bedroom and recreational players to really matter? I mean,I can understand these things if you are a professional musician or a recording artist but to most guitarists I'm sure it really doesn't matter that much,no?

It's more to do with the way you want to use an acoustic guitar. If everything you play is accessible within a non cutaway format, a cutaway is something that happens to be there. Both professionals and amateurs, performers and home players will be needing different things, according to their musical preferences, and not because they are pro or amateur. I'm a pro and some of the players who I consider to be way better than me are by definition amateur, though remains amateur (that's a life choice, not a level of ability ). If it sound good the way you play, it is good, regardless of received opinion.

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